New £3k system - keep sonos as source?

[BarnDoor]

Hi,
I'm thinking of building a new hifi only system for our front room. Only to be used with FLAC on a NAS and a bit of internet radio.
No need for TV/Movie as already have home cinema system.
May use spotify or similar streaming service as well.

I currently already have a sonos connect plugged into the home cinema but with lifestyle speakers it really isn't great for music. Don't really use the home cinema enough to justify upgrading this to be better with music, so planning on new stand alone hifi system.

Thinking of spending circa £3k split:
Source/DAC/Amp - £1k to £1.5k
Speakers - £1.5k to £2k

First question - is a Sonos connect's digital output (coax) good enough or should I consider replacing with a different streamer for improved audio quality?

Possible options:
1) Sonos to DAC/Pre + Power Amp (e.g. M-DAC £600 + M-PWR £500 = £1100 or Cyrus 6 DAC £1000)
2) Alternative streamer + Amp (e.g. CA Stream magic £650 + M-PWR £500 = £1150)
3) All in one streamer/dac/amp system (e.g. Naim UnitiQute 2 £1150 + Apple ipad mini £250 = £1400, or Cyrus Streamline 2 + N-Remote £1,000)

If option 2 or 3 is recommended then I'd still be able to plug the sonos in to these should spotify not be possible.
Currently only have android devices in our house, so hence need to add an apple to Naim or n-remote to Cyrus.

Anybody think of any pro's / con's of the different approaches.
I suppose at this point I'm more interested in the streamer side of things and the different approaches rather than a reply saying add xx amp to the list.

On the list above I mentioned both the cyrus streamline and also the 6 Dac. I'm struggling to get my head round how these can both be the same price. Surely the streamline doesn't use lower quality components than the entry level amp/dac combo does it?

Not made my final list of speakers to audition yet as the electronics route will perhaps influence this, but have pmc 20/23 and Tannoy precision 6.2 on the current very short list that will no doubt expand.

All thoughts welcomed.
Thanks.
BD

 

[amcluesent]

is a Sonos connect's digital output (coax) good enough

It's bit-perfect so you could add a DAC, however topping out at 16/44.1 (CD rip standard) may be a consideration when you're dropping £3k and would want the option of hi-rez FLAC. However Sonos could announce a 24/192 box any time and you could sell and upgrade.

Source/DAC/Amp - £1k to £1.5k

A Naim UnitiQute 2 would have to be considered, giving you the whole lot, up to 24/192 around the £1,100 mark.

One other idea is use the hi-quality stereo set-up as the front L/R of the AV system. Most AV receivers now have pre-outs and the Naim analogue input can be set to fixed-gain.

That's how I've set my system, so I get the best sound quality for stereo music and 5.1 movies.

 

[BarnDoor]

Thanks Amcluesent.

Good to hear that the Sonos will be up to the job.

Combining with Home Cinema is not really an option. I would have to add a centre speaker on to the purchase list which would push down the amount spent on the hifi pair. Additionally our TV and HC speakers are all currently wall mounted with the wiring behind the wall to an AV cupboard on a side wall, so wouldn't really work.

Stopped off in Richersounds yesterday as I got out of work a bit early.
Listened to the Tannoy Precision 6.2. Very impressed with them. Really good step up from the Rev DC6's that I currently have in our Kitchen/Diner. The first track I put on contained a level of detail that I did not know existed in the track and layed the different instruments beautifully.
Tried them with an Arcam A19 (and matching CD). Was a bit underwhelmed by this combo as it seemed to lack a bit of life, punch and excitement.
Swapped the Arcam out for a Cyrus 6 DAC (and matching CD). Much more impressed by this - a nice combination to my ears. Much livelier, however I am familiar with and do like the Tannoy / Cyrus combination and already have a Cyrus powering my kitchen DC6's.

Need to get out to a few other stores and listen to some other combinations.

 

[BarnDoor]

Forgot to mention that also tried the Tannoy Precision 6.1 with the Cyrus. Was hoping to be equally impressed with them as with the 6.2 as they are a whopping £1k cheaper in a gloss finish. They had the same detail, but sounded so light weight compared to the 6.2 which had a much fuller sound.

 

[Andrew K]

Try out the audiolab m-dac with its matching amp, paired with the Kef ls50's. You can either use the sonos as the source or upgrade to a simple audio Roomplayer

 

[BarnDoor]

What enhancements would the simple audio roomplayer bring?

 

[amcluesent]

What enhancements would the simple audio roomplayer bring?

Hi-rez playback for sure. With Sonos you'd have proven gapless playback, maybe a more mature controller app.

 

[Andrew K]

Hi Res playback as mentioned. Gapless playback is coming and the new iPad app is superb.

You have deezer instead of spotify

 

[BarnDoor]

Quick update on the above.

Decided to stick with Sonos as source.

Following discussion with swmbo the budget has been halved.

Based on the audition of the Tannoy's with Cyrus I decided this was the way I wanted to go, so to fit in with budget I needed to try and make use of some of the kit I already have. I've freed up the Cyrus Smartpower amp and Arcam rdac from the kitchen system and reverted that back to using a sonos amp with the DC6s.

I've then purchased an ex-demo pair of Tannoy Precision 6.4s. I chose the 6.4s over the 6.2s as they are not rear ported, so more flexible on positioning and also available at a good price ex-demo (haven't seen any 6.2s at a good price).

Speakers arrived on Tuesday and all setup with the sonos connect, arcam rdac and Cyrus Smart power.
Really not very pleased with the outcome. High frequencies are way over the top to the extent that it almost unlistenable. My wife who constantly claims she can't tell the difference between £20 speakers and £500 speakers has said they sound really tinny!
I've double checked the wiring and all is set up ok.
I've switched the Arcam dac out and reverted back to the sonos dac this doesn't make much of a difference.

We have carpets, curtains etc in the room, so I wouldn't really put the issue down to the room.

The only other thing I can think of is that the amp doesn't really match that well with the speakers and that the RS listening room I demoed the precisions in was overly absorbent of high frequencies (is this possible?). Although the amp is a few years old I believe it was Cyrus mid range at the time, whereas the 6 dac that I demoed with is their current entry level range. I had assumed that there wouldn't be a significant difference between the two in quality. Am I being naive?

I appreciate that this is the streamer forum, so probably best if I pop over to the hifi separates section and ask for advise there, however if anybody has any ideas then these are very much welcomed.
Thanks
BD

 

[Andrew K]

Were the speakers run in as they may need to loosen up

 

[fuzzybk]

Give the new Tannoy's some break in time is my suggestion.

 

[abbo]

Have you tried a better source? Your system is probably showing up the limitations of the Sonos and lossy files perhaps.

 

[BarnDoor]

Thanks for the replies; i've created a thread over on the seperates section, so had been following it over there.
The shipping label on the speaker boxes to the dealer are from about 18 months ago, so I think it is safe to say that they are run in.

Abbo - what are the limitations of the sonos that you are suggesting? earlier in the thread it was suggested that the sonos coax was bit perfect. I use an external dac and now have a cyrus 8a replacing pre amp duties previously performed by the sonos.

 

[BarnDoor]

Btw all music is flac, so lossless.

 

[abbo]

In fairness, I have never owned a Sonos. However, I have a friend who owns one and he was disappointed with the performance when playing through his main system. He now uses it in the Bedroom and Kitchen. Have you tried your Denon in this system playing a CD? Got to be worth a try.

 

[Julian Stevens]

Why doesn't anyone make one of these?

All I want is a solid state (no moving parts) hard disk deck to which to archive my CD collection. What I neither need or want are:-

1. Analogue inputs or outputs (though they could be an option for those who do),

2. Connectivity either to my TV or PC or laptop,

3. A CD transport,

4. An amplifier or volume control or

5. Any fiddly plug-ins such as memory sticks (I'm convinced that the sockets are likely to become loose over time, whilst memory sticks are just cluttery things, easily lost).

What I would like to be able to buy (at a reasonable price, by which I mean not much more than £1,000) is a bog-standard separate (like a cassette or MiniDisc deck) with:-

1. a hinged screen (like a laptop),

2. a digital output and input (from and to my D:AC), plus

3. a remote control to enable me locate and then play the particular album and track/s I want to listen to.

But nobody seems to make such a device. I just don't understand why. Surely not everyone wants their PC to be the hub of everything they do. Any ideas?

 

[amcluesent]

Any ideas?

MacBook Pro?

 

[imightbewrong]

In fairness, I have never owned a Sonos. However, I have a friend who owns one and he was disappointed with the performance when playing through his main system. He now uses it in the Bedroom and Kitchen. Have you tried your Denon in this system playing a CD? Got to be worth a try.

Yes the sonos is ok not amazing. I used to run mine through a chord dac64 which gave a phenomenal sound.

 

[BarnDoor]

Not sure that Julian's comment really justified reviving this thread from 6 months ago.

 

[Julian Stevens]

The MacBook Pro looks to me just like a laptop PC with a lot of keys on top, nothing much like the deck I described. Does it have remote control?