Nest, Hive or Tado?

John

Moderator
i have TRVs in 4 bedrooms and although i have 2 rads in each of the kitchen and lounge, i have 1 trv of each in them .
the room splitting works really well for me and has helped effectively managed the temp in the office which is above the garage and always struggled to get up to temp properly simply down to the zone stat been in the master bedroom , which is the warmest bedroom
 

jenam93

Well-known Member
I've also got the tado setup, self installed by following instructions in the app some months back.

While we have 11 radiators in the whole house the upstairs bathroom and downstairs shower room are left purposefully with no TRV control, which I believe is a recommendation to always have at least 1 radiator that can let off heat if the boiler has the heating on.

The 3 bedrooms upstairs each have a tado smart rad thermostat (SRT) which were installed on top of existing TRVs by just changing the heads of the TRVs. Each bedroom has its own schedule based on when the folk in it wake up/go to bed and how warm they like their room. Turns out those in our household prefer very different settings and having tado has allowed this to be controlled very well.

Downstairs we have 2 rads in the living room but currently only 1 SRT, 3 rads in the kitchen/diner and again with only 1 SRT in place then 1 more rad in my office/kids playroom with an SRT. This was more a cost choice of initial setup than the purposeful decision of the bathrooms.

With me working from home all the time it means the heating is only on to change the office/playroom temp (though due to not all rads having SRTs means living room/kitchen/diner/bathrooms also get warmed, the non-bathrooms rads are just on low via standard TRVs which makes those rooms slightly more comfortable than cold, but not warm overall).

This has made the boiler more efficient as it is not always heating every room when the heating is on, and with less rads being supplied with heat the boiler does not have to work as hard, if just fires intermittently to keep the rooms the required temps.

Of course this could be done by manually changing the dumb TRV heads in the mornings and evenings, but invariably this would be forgotten about and rooms would end up too hot or too cold.

I dont mind that the geo-fencing or open window detection is an additional cost, because tado pings a notification when I leave the house and it is simple enough to turn the heating off if its likely to be worthwhile.

The thing that did annoy me on initial setup is there is no way to copy a schedule from one SRT to another, so you have to repeat the setup on each and every SRT as well as the main thermostat.

Overall I am really liking tado :smashin:
 

DPinBucks

Distinguished Member
This is a very timely thread for me. :)

I installed a Hive system last year, chosen over Nest because it was a direct swap out of my Drayton controller and didn't need any more wiring. Nest required a rewiring of the mains supply.

Anyway, the Hive system has been nothing but trouble, and I swear it's increased my heating costs by about 25%.

The Hive TRVs simply don't work properly. The Heat on Demand feature, which is what these things are supposed to be all about, has a mind of its own. I keep getting reports that the thermostat is boosting a TRV when it's not, and their room temperature control is rubbish anyway. Also, they are not a straight swap for the earlier Drayton TRVs, which means I can't use them in the important rooms without buying extra TRV bodies.

They cost me quite a bit last year, but I'm going to ditch them and get someone to do a proper install of an EvoHome system, which I think is the best for me., especially now that people here seem to like it. Apart from cost, are there any other downsides?
 

Russa

Well-known Member
This is a very timely thread for me. :)

I installed a Hive system last year, chosen over Nest because it was a direct swap out of my Drayton controller and didn't need any more wiring. Nest required a rewiring of the mains supply.

Anyway, the Hive system has been nothing but trouble, and I swear it's increased my heating costs by about 25%.

The Hive TRVs simply don't work properly. The Heat on Demand feature, which is what these things are supposed to be all about, has a mind of its own. I keep getting reports that the thermostat is boosting a TRV when it's not, and their room temperature control is rubbish anyway. Also, they are not a straight swap for the earlier Drayton TRVs, which means I can't use them in the important rooms without buying extra TRV bodies.

They cost me quite a bit last year, but I'm going to ditch them and get someone to do a proper install of an EvoHome system, which I think is the best for me., especially now that people here seem to like it. Apart from cost, are there any other downsides?

This is interesting to know, I've had Hive for ages and it's been great with the dumb trv's.

Was considering getting the smart ones last year when they were £100 for 5, but didn't. I have 18 rads in the house. So could get expensive.

I've also got a lot of drayton trv's although was under the impression they were the same size as all others? Any chance you could post a photo of yours please?
 

Russa

Well-known Member
I've just tried to swap an ecopac trv head with a drayton head, and whilst the screw thread on the body is the same the inner plastic ring is indeed a different size.

Thankyou for your post highlighting this, it's potentially saved me a lot of frustration. I think I'll be stick with the dumb ones after all.
 

DPinBucks

Distinguished Member
This is interesting to know, I've had Hive for ages and it's been great with the dumb trv's.

Was considering getting the smart ones last year when they were £100 for 5, but didn't. I have 18 rads in the house. So could get expensive.

I've also got a lot of drayton trv's although was under the impression they were the same size as all others? Any chance you could post a photo of yours please?
Here you go:

Drayton TRV 1.jpg
This one doesn't fit. It's an older model (I call it TRV 1).

Drayton TRV 4.jpg

This one does fit (Drayton TRV 4). You'll see that the ring at the base is much wider than TRV1. Hive supply some adaptors for the various makes and models of TRV, but not the narrow Draytons, and don't intend to make one. So you'd have to install a new TRV base, which means plumbing work. Not a difficult job, but it adds cost and means bringing down the whole system whilst they're being installed. Unfortunately, of the 10 or so Draytons in my house, only 2 are TRV 4s, and the others are 1s, in important bedrooms. I have other brands on other rads, and they're all OK.

Actually, I should have been warned about Hive when I tried the useless water leak detector that British Gas distributed some years ago. That was rubbish, too.
 

Russa

Well-known Member
Thanks for that. My Drayton TRV's look a lot older than yours. Mine look like RT414. Mine do have the wider base, so maybe it could work after all.

All mine were Drayton TRV's, then when I fitted all the posh double designer radiators downstairs I bought chrome ecopac TRV's. I must say, the Drayton seemed better quality (still have them upstairs).
 

witchdrash

Active Member
Thanks for that. My Drayton TRV's look a lot older than yours. Mine look like RT414. Mine do have the wider base, so maybe it could work after all.

All mine were Drayton TRV's, then when I fitted all the posh double designer radiators downstairs I bought chrome ecopac TRV's. I must say, the Drayton seemed better quality (still have them upstairs).
Drayton do have a range of smart TRVs, you may find that if you already have Drayton valves that these will fit with minimal fuss. Having switched a few of my parents radiators over the Drayton valves were a massive pain, but Tado did have the right connector bit in the box, just took a while figure out how to connect it properly so the the head didn't just pop off when it was closing, which was less than ideal :D

 

blue max

Distinguished Member
I am not sure where best to put this, but I'll try here :)

I have a small five rad system and a rad/towel rail in the bathroom.
Currently I have a Salus RT310i remote stat and the five rads have trv's on.

I am now currently running HomeKit and creating a thread based system. My first purchases have been Eve Thermo trv's. These are fitted on the five rads (none on the bathroom).

But they need a constant supply to function correctly. At the moment the room stat is the only way to demand heat from the boiler. The Salus stat is pretty horrible and basic. There is a flakey app and it can't be used by HomeKit.

So, my thought is to get an Eve Energy and use it to demand heat through automation via the Eve app. I.E. switch on the Energy when the temp from the trv's drop to a certain point and on when they reach an upper limit.

I'm assuming just leaving the combi boiler on constant would effectively mean it would never stop? Is there any flaw with this approach?

Cheers.
 

DPinBucks

Distinguished Member
Further to my posts above, I have just had my Hive system replaced with Evohome, with 13 TRVs and hot water. As with Hive, one or two of the old Draytons also didn't fit the Honeywells, and had to be replaced with new bodies. That was no biggie, since the system was drained down anyway.

So far so good, but there are two features on Hive that I can't find on Honeywell. Am I missing something?:
  • An indication of when the heating is actually pumping. In principle perhaps this shouldn't matter, but I got used to it with Hive. It's very useful to know because some radiators don't have smart valves, and it gives some idea of actual activity;
  • An overall schedule for heating which overrides individual zones. For example, I'd want to shut the heating down completely overnight, like the hot water. Again, perhaps it doesn't matter, but it feels like I've lost a bit of control which I'd rather like to have.
As a result of this by the way, I now have 4 Hive TRVs, a hub, wall controller and boiler control, if anyone's interested. I know I've been moaning about Hive, so I'm not exactly putting a convincing sales pitch, but many people do like it, so PM me if you're interested (Mods: is that OK? Should I put them in the Classifieds?)
 

John

Moderator
You'll need to use the classifieds
 

neonplanet40

Active Member
Further to my posts above, I have just had my Hive system replaced with Evohome, with 13 TRVs and hot water. As with Hive, one or two of the old Draytons also didn't fit the Honeywells, and had to be replaced with new bodies. That was no biggie, since the system was drained down anyway.

So far so good, but there are two features on Hive that I can't find on Honeywell. Am I missing something?:
  • An indication of when the heating is actually pumping. In principle perhaps this shouldn't matter, but I got used to it with Hive. It's very useful to know because some radiators don't have smart valves, and it gives some idea of actual activity;
  • An overall schedule for heating which overrides individual zones. For example, I'd want to shut the heating down completely overnight, like the hot water. Again, perhaps it doesn't matter, but it feels like I've lost a bit of control which I'd rather like to have.
As a result of this by the way, I now have 4 Hive TRVs, a hub, wall controller and boiler control, if anyone's interested. I know I've been moaning about Hive, so I'm not exactly putting a convincing sales pitch, but many people do like it, so PM me if you're interested (Mods: is that OK? Should I put them in the Classifieds?)
HI mate, just came across your post. Regarding option 2) there is definitely a way to completely turn it off. I have a combi-boiler and have had the heating on the evohome console turned off all summer. I can't remember exactly how I did it (I used the touchscreen controller) but I do remember being able to just hit it to 'off' on the console. This overrides the schedule. However, I am unsure if you are able to schedule for the 'schedule' to come on again at a set time? You would maybe have to hit 'on' again manually?

If you can't find it, remind me later and I can have a closer look when home.

Regarding number 1) I haven't been able to find anything that shows the heating is on from the app or the touchscreen controller. I just know when I hear the boiler come on. I agree this should be an essential feature (and something I miss from my prior Nest which changed to orange when it was on).

I would have thought it would be an easy software fix for them to implement it. however, I could (possibly) be stupid and have missed where this notification does exist?!
 

DPinBucks

Distinguished Member
HI mate, just came across your post. Regarding option 2) there is definitely a way to completely turn it off. I have a combi-boiler and have had the heating on the evohome console turned off all summer. I can't remember exactly how I did it (I used the touchscreen controller) but I do remember being able to just hit it to 'off' on the console. This overrides the schedule. However, I am unsure if you are able to schedule for the 'schedule' to come on again at a set time? You would maybe have to hit 'on' again manually?

If you can't find it, remind me later and I can have a closer look when home.

Regarding number 1) I haven't been able to find anything that shows the heating is on from the app or the touchscreen controller. I just know when I hear the boiler come on. I agree this should be an essential feature (and something I miss from my prior Nest which changed to orange when it was on).

I would have thought it would be an easy software fix for them to implement it. however, I could (possibly) be stupid and have missed where this notification does exist?!
Many thanks.

For question 1), I guess we'll just have to see if Honeywell ever actually introduces it. As you say, it can't be a big deal, and they do it for Hot Water (unless I'm misreading the symbol on the screen)

For 2), what I was actually seeking was an overall schedule for the heating which overrides the TRV schedules, eg set heating to OFF overnight and ON again in the morning. I was sure that Hive has it, but on thinking about it, possibly not, in a simple way anyway. There is a schedule for heating, but with hindsight that may have been a cause of some of the system's weird behaviour. I now think that it doesn't really matter, especially if they ever answer Q.1). Where it might be useful is if you want to heat rooms which don't have smart TRVs fitted, but why would you?

If you and others will bear with me, I have some other questions:
  • What exactly is a Custom Schedule? What can you do with it? Can you have more than one?
  • What does 'permanent' mean? Does it mean the setting last forever, or is reset at the next schedule change point? If the former, then if you simply change the temperature via the control screen, is that reset when the change point is hit? This is a silly question, really. I could simply try it and see what happens.
  • Finally, and thanks for your patience, one of the TRVs seems to be overheating, ie it's on even though the room is well over the target. Can it be recalibrated or is it a fault?

Thanks again
 

27neth

Distinguished Member
There’s a lot of settings to turn off the heating or lower it. There is a away mode which will drop all the trv’s to a set temp for a set time You want. There is a eco mode which will increase or decrease room temps for a set time.
I think the custom settings are just so you can set it all up to how you want with out using the set up wizard.
Permanent will leave the setting on the trv and ignores the custom settings I think. If you just up the temperature normally on the screen for a room it will automatically change at the next set point.
Try messing about with the App, it sometimes easier to get used to the settings using that.
For the trv there is settings on it to adjust a lot of things inc calibrating it etc. You will need to find the trv instructions to make it easier.
Have a look here too https://ensupport.getconnected.honeywellhome.com/s/topic/0TO6A0000009L6nWAE/evohome?language=en_US
 
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DPinBucks

Distinguished Member
Many thanks.

At least I think I've fixed the overheating problem. I discovered that the TRV was reporting a mounting issue. When I checked it wasn't screwed down properly, which means I guess that it was always more open than it should be. I've corrected that and it's now reporting no issues, so we'll how it goes.

Mind you, I would have thought that the system would auto-correct for that, but it had probably set the valve as far closed as it would go and yet it was still open a bit.

Also, I had to discover it by pressing buttons on the valve itself, which was awkward. Why wasn't the fault notified to the app or the controller? Surely that's part of what smart TRVs should do?
 

Pug72

Well-known Member
Just so you know, the Hive hub is linked to your account once activated and would be useless to anyone else.
 

DPinBucks

Distinguished Member
Just so you know, the Hive hub is linked to your account once activated and would be useless to anyone else.
Oh yes!! Stone the crows; I sort of knew that but had forgotten. Thanks.

Just another reason to avoid Hive.

Actually, though, it's not a problem in this case as I have a spare unopened hub which came as a freebie when I bought the TRVs. They're £90 on Amazon.
 

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