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Neff C17MS32N0B microwave - don't buy before you read this|!!

Nick0207

Standard Member
I'm not trying to be difficult, just thorough. I could create that PDF document in no time. It's not evidence, I'm afraid. How about, for example, a video showing the power usage?
I am a qualified engineer with 30 years experience and I can assure you I have not fabricated the PDF evidence which has, by the way, copyright marking by Bosch Siemens Group down the side! If anyone thinks or wishes to claim I have libelled them because this is a fabrication then they are more than welcome to sue me.

I'm also perplexed why you think a video (which would be far easier to manipulate in practice) somehow showing power usage would be more valid than the PDF? The whole point of the cover up by BSH when they discovered the problem was to try to disguise the issue. This is why these units default at switch on (which cannot be changed) to 600w operation and why their user instructions claim that you should only heat food at 600w. No other microwave manufacturer does or states this. It is also why, even when the microwave has reduced power to 600w, that the front panel still shows it is operating at 1000w.

If you want further proof perhaps you could email BSH/Neff at [email protected] and ask them to confirm if the PDF is a valid document or look at the other posts by frustrated Neff combi owners on this web site. Numerous people have complained about the heating performance of this unit - have they fabricated their complaints as well? And if they have, why have BSH given myself and numerous other Neff owners a 100% refund of the purchase cost and let us keep the units? Doesn't really make sense does it if there is nothing wrong with their microwaves does it.

It has to be questioned as well why, after 16 months, you have found it necessary to ask for proof? I suspect it is because BSH have asked you to remove the posts.

I will also send you though (by private conversation) a copy of my formal complaint to BSH which is not for further publication please. This was sent to BSH legal in Germany and resulted in them offering me the 100% refund.

I reiterate, my posts should be kept on your site as they are true and correct and in the public interest.
 

Stuart Wright

AVForums Founder
Staff member
I have not fabricated the PDF evidence which has, by the way, copyright marking by Bosch Siemens Group down the side!
I didn't say that you had. But someone else could, and it's possible and you haven't given evidence that you haven't. That copyright marking is just text which is easily manufactured using photoshop.
It has to be questioned as well why, after 16 months, you have found it necessary to ask for proof? I suspect it is because BSH have asked you to remove the posts.
Correct. And we will have to unless we can get some evidence to support your assertions.
I will also send you though (by private conversation) a copy of my formal complaint to BSH which is not for further publication please. This was sent to BSH legal in Germany and resulted in them offering me the 100% refund.
I'm only guessing here, but a video showing a microwave connected (only) to a power meter showing the power drop from 1kw down to 600watts would be fairly strong evidence that the unit does not perform as per the stated performance.
 
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Nick0207

Standard Member
I'm only guessing here, but a video showing a microwave connected (only) to a power meter showing the power drop from 1kw down to 600watts would be fairly strong evidence that the unit does not perform as per the stated performance.
Why do you say " I'm only guessing" above; you are asking for evidence but you don't seem to know what evidence you need and you have dismissed the considerable proof I have given you so far.. I can provide you with a video of exactly what you are asking but this is pointless if you are then going to say I could have fabricated the video. Please confirm that if I send you a video showing the combi power consumption with a timer in view that you will accept this as proof.

I have already suggested, which you seem to have ignored, that you ask BSH to confirm the validity of the PDF and my letter of complaint to them. Why don't you do this as then you will have concrete proof?
 

Stuart Wright

AVForums Founder
Staff member
Why do you say " I'm only guessing" above; you are asking for evidence but you don't seem to know what evidence you need
I'm guessing at what evidence a court would need. So far, you haven't given sufficient evidence, never mind proof.
Don't second guess that I would suggest you would create a fabricated video. It's easy to video a power meter connected to the device and on repeated tests in a single, unedited shot, show what is happening. That would be enough for me to then investigate this further.
I'm trying to contact https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathow/ now, the person who contacted us. He's Head of Legal & Regional Compliance, Company Secretary and a barrister of 18 years. Do you think a PDF (which is easily created using adobe illustrator) is going to constitute sufficient evidence?
Your tone suggests that I am questioning your honesty. I am not. I'm just asking for better evidence because you have the burden of proof, here, and the quality of evidence needs to be high.

I've done some investigating myself, starting with the product page on the NEFF website:
C17MS32N0B
Where on there does it state that the microwave is 1000 watts?
Via the product specification link https://products.bsh-partner.com/picenterext/specsheet/GB/en-GB/C17MS32N0B.pdf
it states that the maximum power for the microwave is 900 watts.
Via the Downloads link, you can see the instruction manual:
http://media3.neff-international.com/Documents/9001309336_A.pdf
What does it say on there about microwave power usage for food (as opposed to liquids?)

I'm trying to get to the truth, here.
However BSH (who own the Neff brand amongst others) are cheating their customers into buying a defective product which is not fit for purpose.
This statement is in breach of our rules unless you can provide sufficient evidence to support the claim.
 
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Nick0207

Standard Member
Don't second guess that I would suggest you would create a fabricated video. It's easy to video a power meter connected to the device and on repeated tests in a single, unedited shot, show what is happening. That would be enough for me to then investigate this further.

Ok I will do the video as you suggest. Should be with you tomorrow. How do I send it to you?
 

Stuart Wright

AVForums Founder
Staff member
Don't second guess that I would suggest you would create a fabricated video. It's easy to video a power meter connected to the device and on repeated tests in a single, unedited shot, show what is happening. That would be enough for me to then investigate this further.

Ok I will do the video as you suggest. Should be with you tomorrow. How do I send it to you?
Can you upload it to a Youtube channel? That way the evidence is public.
 

Stuart Wright

AVForums Founder
Staff member
Nick0207 has now posted evidence of the microwave reducing power after 70 seconds.
He has also edited his first post to comply with AVForums rules.
 

robert1234567

Novice Member
Nick

I have a similar microwave/oven where the grill element is on whilst the microwave is running. Could I please have a copy of your documents? BTW I was unable to find a link to PM you.

Thanks

Robert
 

outoftheknow

Distinguished Member
Nick

I have a similar microwave/oven where the grill element is on whilst the microwave is running. Could I please have a copy of your documents? BTW I was unable to find a link to PM you.

Thanks

Robert
You have tripped the adblock flag. I can’t remember if that mucks up conversations or not.

Go to one of Nicks posts and click on his username. In the pop up click on start a conversation. If not there I guess you need to reset the flag first.
 

fubar925

Member
Oh.... Ok I've just had a bosch aeries 8 combi microwave installed and have the exact same instructions as you show in the video.... Not impressed can I ask who you spoke to and how hard it was to get them to admit fault?
 

Steve B8ccd

Novice Member
Hi Nick
Just read your very interesting post on Neff microwave/oven. I’ve got a C28mt27nob that is showing all the signs that you have mentioned.
Had an engineer round today who would not do more than 60sec heat test,consequently he said there was no fault
I would like your help in moving forward with my situation
Kind regards
Steve B8ccd
 

Nick0207

Standard Member
Hi Steve, sen me your email address via the 'Conversations' facility (the envelope at the top of the page) and I'll forward some docs to you.
Nick
 

pejaykay

Novice Member
Hi Nick, another Neff combination oven unhappy user. I'm not sure where to start my complaint with Neff. All I know is I tried to cook a frozen jacket potato for the recommended 4 mins and it came out defrosted but icy cold. I've had the engineer round and he did the test you described and the result was 1005 watts output after 1 minute. I am currently waiting for my brother-in-law to plug it into a meter that will show the output, but it's a bit tricky as it's hard wired. Can you give me any advice please.
 

Nick0207

Standard Member
I'll send you a 'conversation' (see the 'envelope' icon at the top of the page) with my email address to reply to. The engineer's test is just a joke really as they must know the microwave only runs at full power for 70 seconds so testing it for 60 seconds is a waste of everyone's time.
Nick
 

Arkaned

Active Member
Really interesting read, thanks for the heads up as I was about to purchase one of these to match a slide and hide oven.

Does anyone know if a revision or version has been released fixing this issue?
 

Nick0207

Standard Member
Afraid there is not a fix for this.
In fact what BSH/ Neff are doing is even worse. They are trying to make it more complex for users to know what the max power is for the combi and admitting that the unit will downgrade the power to 'protect the unit from overheating but they still claim it can operate at max power for 30 mins which is just not true.
 

Arkaned

Active Member
Wow, never would have expected that from a manufacturer with such a high reputation. Thank you for all the info you've posted.
Throws a spanner in the works as this unit was part of the plan to ditch a separate microwave and match a slide & hide oven. Hopefully another brand has an alternative...
 

Nick0207

Standard Member
Just be aware that BSH also own Bosch and Siemens and they told me that they all use the same poorly designed magnetron which overheats and fails if used on full power for more than 70 seconds.
Pathetic isn't it!
 

usmanpatel

Novice Member
Hi Nick,

I've had this same microwave for around 18 months now and it's been an annoyance every day to say the least.

I called an engineer out a few months into the installation and couldn't be around but was palmed off by the engineer who said that the microwave worked fine and I should be putting a metal spoon in any liquid to ensure it warms as it should?!

No food or liquid will warm as it should, I've had a conventional 800w in the past and this is nowhere near as powerful.

Even more interesting is the fact that microwave popcorn just won't work at all in the unit no matter how long I try it for.

I've just not had time to get round to complaining since purchase but ever since my Neff Hob suddenly started leaking water last week (another story!) I'm reaching the end of my tether with Neff as I've spent £9000+ with them already.

I'd really appreciate it if you could help me with any documents I could use whilst sending in my complaint.

Thanks,

Oz
 

Computer Angel

Standard Member
Neff Hob leaking?
 

usmanpatel

Novice Member
Sounds crazy I know. I have the 5 burner T69S86N0 - suddenly started leaking water from the tiny spaces around the screws under the hob into my cutlery drawer below.

Couldn't figure out how water could get in there in the first place let alone leak out. I removed the burners and the white seals had completely decomposed almost into dust and the steel rings were completely corroded and broken. This looks like the only 'opening' where anything can enter the tray below.

Still baffles me where the water came from in the first place but I'm guessing it's condensation from somewhere as the leaking water was pretty clean.

Anyway, just spent £85 on new seals and rings from Neff (£18 per steel ring!).

You can have a look at the attached photos to see the state of the ring after less than 2 years use.

IMG_6116.jpg
IMG_6117.jpg
 

Nick0207

Standard Member
Hi Nick,

I've had this same microwave for around 18 months now and it's been an annoyance every day to say the least.

I called an engineer out a few months into the installation and couldn't be around but was palmed off by the engineer who said that the microwave worked fine and I should be putting a metal spoon in any liquid to ensure it warms as it should?!

No food or liquid will warm as it should, I've had a conventional 800w in the past and this is nowhere near as powerful.

Even more interesting is the fact that microwave popcorn just won't work at all in the unit no matter how long I try it for.

I've just not had time to get round to complaining since purchase but ever since my Neff Hob suddenly started leaking water last week (another story!) I'm reaching the end of my tether with Neff as I've spent £9000+ with them already.

I'd really appreciate it if you could help me with any documents I could use whilst sending in my complaint.

Thanks,

Oz
If you send me your email address via the 'conversation' private connection, I'll send you the docs. Although i assume it's out of warranty as over 1 yr old as this problem was present when it was sold I believe you would still have a legal case as the unit is not fit for purpose.. Nick
 

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