Need your help/advice please

DJTipster

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Hi all,

I am currently looking at getting a new Hi-Fi system and have been looking at all manner of different systems/speakers. I have narrowed it down to the following but need your help/advice/experience please in helping me choose the right one!

My budget is not £1,000's so I have been looking at these -

Denon DM40DAB - Hi-Fi
Cambride Audio One - Hi-Fi
Pioneer XC-P01DAB - Hi-Fi

With these speakers -

Wharfedale Diamond 9.0
Q Acoustics 2010i
Q Acoustics 3010
Tannoy Revolution DC4
Cambridge Audio SX50
Tannoy Mercury V1

As this is my first proper Hi-Fi system my budget would be up to £350-£400. Or is there anything else I have missed as after reading forum after forum Monitor Audio keeps popping up as a good recommended manufacturer too?

Has anyone got any experience of the above and point me in the right direction?

Regarding my needs - CD player, as got 100's of CD's and if i am honest I am not a massive "streaming" fan as I really like to actually go to a store, purchase the CD, and physically have it in my hands, see the art work of the covers etc. I am a bit old school like that. Got to have a DAB radio built in too for radio listening and football commentaries. Regarding music needs - big fan of guitar music, whether it be light guitar or a bit of heavy metal. Love bands. A bit of dance music in there, acoustic, and chilled out. Would just like a system that when people hear it it sounds "quality", but without spending £1,000's

Thanks
 
Those are OK systems as long as you understand what you are getting. These are small low powered systems with small speakers. Yes, very very high in features, but the more you get for a fixed amount of money, the less each item is worth.

Also you haven't really told us about what is driving those choices. Space Limitations? High Features? Low Price? Other?

Myself, I would recommend a Component based system with fewer features but better quality and reliability. Though likely for a bit more money.

Let me lay out an alternate system, and we can see what the final price is, and get a sense of the possibilities.

£230/ea = Yamaha AS301, 60w/ch, DAC (optical, coaxial)
£170/ea = Yamaha CDS300 CD Player
------------------
£400 = TOTAL


As you can see, this takes you above budget, though I have other ideas which I will list later.

For speakers there are a range of prices in good larger speakers that would work for serious music listening.

Here are some examples -

Superfi - Tannoy Mercury V1i Speakers (Pair)

Superfi - Wharfedale Diamond 220 Speakers (Pair)

Superfi - Monitor Audio Bronze 1 Speakers (Pair)

This last system is an exceptional deal on discontinued models. At least worth a look -

Superfi - Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 Speakers & SW150 Subwoofer 2.1 Speaker Package

I realize I've taken you well over budget, but these are good systems what will meet your needs for, if not years, then potentially decades.

Here is a lower cost system from a reputable brand, but no DAC (I'll explain DAC later).

Superfi - Denon PMA720AE Amplifier

Superfi - Denon DCD720AE CD Player

I think if I search around I might be able to find the Denon 720 amp/cd for a bit less.

£180/ea = Denon PMA-720, 50w/ch Integrated Amp
£175/ea = Denon DCD-720 CD Player
------------------
£355 = Total


Note the original Retail Price on the 720 Series was about £350 each.

At near rock bottom, here are links to the Denon 520 series -

Superfi - Denon PMA520AE Amplifier

Superfi - Denon DCD520AE CD Player

£140/ea = Denon PMA-520, 45w/ch Integrated Amp
£140/ea = Denon DCD-520 CD Player
--------------------------
£280 = TOTAL


A DAC is a Digital to Analog Converter. Digitized music is simply a series of number corresponding to voltage levels that were measured when the music was sampled. The DAC converts those numbers back into voltages that common amps can use.

Today, the main purpose of a DAC is to allow you to connect your TV to the Stereo system for Movie watching. There are other uses, but this is the most common.

If you eventually feel the need for a DAC, and your amp does not have one built in, then you can add one externally, though the price goes a bit higher.

For direct connect to a computer, a USB Only DAC runs -

AUDIOQUEST DRAGONFLY V1.2 USB DAC/Headphone Amp

CAMBRIDGE AUDIO DACMAGIC XS USB DAC/Headphone Amp

If you feel the need for a more versatile DAC, the Cambridge DACMagic 100 has 3 independent inputs (1x Optical/Coaxial, 1xCoaxial, 1xUSB) -

CAMBRIDGE AUDIO DACMAGIC 100Black DAC

But for CD Playback, the DAC will be inside the CD Player, so just an Amp and CD would be enough.

That is more money for fewer features, but better quality and better performing equipment.

There is nothing wrong with your original choices, but you have to accept them for what they are - small low powered amps with lots of features, and small speakers. Many people have systems like this, and are very satisifed with them.

But for someone with 100's of CD, I would recommend a more serious music system.

Just trying to present alternatives.

Steve/bluewizard
 
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I did find the Denon PMA-720 for about £10 less, but the DCD-720 is about £5 more.

It pays to shop around. Or do a Google-UK Shopping Search to see if you can find a better price.

http://exceptional-av.co.uk/catalogsearch/result/?cat=0&q=denon+720

I did find one other series in the same price range. The Marantz 5005 series -

Marantz PM5005 Integrated Amplifier - Amplifiers - HiFi

Marantz CD5005 CD Player - CD Players - HiFi

The Marantz PM5005 has 45w/ch, and Marantz has a very high reputation for good sounding equipment.

£180/ea = Marantz PM5005 Integrated Amp, 45w/ch
£170/ea = Marantz CD5005 CD Player
--------------------
£350 = TOTAL


I know the Mini-Amps (DM40DAB) seems like a great bargain, but they are just that Mini-Amps. And really only a great bargain relative to all the features you get.

Denon DM40 DAB Micro System (RCD-M40) - Midi Systems - HiFi

That Denon Mini-Amp says 30w/ch, but that is 30w/ch to 6 ohms which means only 22.5w/ch to the standard 8 ohm rating. And that power is at 1khz which means full range at reasonable distortion levels it would be lucky to hit 20w/ch.

Though again, many people have these systems and are very satisfied for casual listening. If this represents the absolute limit of your budget, then it is certainly a workable option. These small amps are very rich in features.

Steve/bluewizard
 
It looks like you are restricting yourself to only mini systems.

As said, they are low powered but get the job done. However If you have ideas of using it for any parties in the foreseeable future, I wouldn't. They couldn't cope with the sustained pressure.

There is the marantz mcr610 which has come down in price but adding a decent pair of speakers will most likely take over budget to around £450-500 Mark.


Marantz MCR610 with 2020i

MA speakers are very popular speakers and very good, but they are not to everyone tastes, so you really need to listen to them before you make up your mind. There are plenty other alternatives like Dali Zensors 1 or 3, mordant shost, kef as well as the ones you listed
 
Guys, thank you very much for the detailed overview. It is such a mind field isnt it. Regarding future set up and expanding on my needs etc - I am not going to play this through the TV for movies or anything like that as I already have my Pioneer amp that does this for my home cinema. I purely want this for CD playing, radio/music listening and that is all. Potential parties in the future yes perhaps, but we have a 2yr old so at the minute my partying lifestyle has hit a brick wall :laugh:.

Regarding space etc so these will sit in my dining room and will be on a low sound when we have the family round for dinner etc as a bit of background music - then if we feel the need to crank it up we will do so and open up the dining room doors and kitchen doors so we can hear it in the rooms too - dining room and lounge is 25ft long x 11ft wide then into the kitchen and conservatory too. Also will be looking at opening the conservatory doors and sit outside in the summer and we can have the hi-fi on and hear music outside too.

To give you an idea of lay out - here is a link to my HC thread and there is my floorplan etc and layout of house - Home Cinema

Superfi is actually near to me so i think i might go in and demo some equipment. I can see what you are saying about all the features on mini systems etc compared to those of proper seperates. So if i was to go seperates I would need an amp and then a seperate cd player?
 
Yes.

As well as separate DAB/FM tuner.

A system of separates will perform better than a All in One/mini hifi but by the sounds of the intended use, a Mini Hifi may be better suited for the situation. There's pro's and cons for both, so its down to you to weigh that up an decide.

I used to have a full on separates for my dining room but scaled down to an All in One with streaming abilities which suits me better for that room and use. It takes up less space as well. In saying that i have tape deck with the exception that a TV and BR/CD player connected also.

The Denon DM40 is the weakest of the bunch and IMO, there is better out there for the budget. Nice for the bedroom though.
The Pioneer looks tasty but the reported 75w at 4 ohms, will be half that for 8 ohm speakers. So it has slightly more power than the other 2 but that's about it.
All 3 of those listed are pretty much the same in what each offers but prices differ and none have streaming abilities. I know that it is not a requirement, but for same price, it can be had and you will have more choice of stations than DAB

Personally, the Marantz 610 would be my choice.
Pretty much has all what the others have and a bit more. A bit more powerful and as well as CD/FM/DAB, it streams Internet radio and from locally stored music on a Pc or Nas. It will take you above budge when you add speakers but that's the same for the Pioneer and CA One

I also think your listed speakers will be found wanting with the usage in mind. I reckon you do better to look at a class up like the MA BX2 and others in that range
 
If you do go for a mini_all-in-one system, it would still be advisable to get larger bookshelf speakers. The Tannoy Mercury V1i are fine, and very low cost. The Wharfedale Diamond 220 and Monitor Audio Bronze 1 are nice, highly rated in their price class, with a fuller range, but still limited. Though more full range that the speakers you listed.

The Q Acoustic sound good, but they are limited in bass. But, how much bass you need is debatable. My computer speaker are rate in the area of 65hz, and they sound fine, but not remotely as good as my main speakers which are rated to 28hz.

If you like and consider Q Acoustic, then consider the still reasonably priced, but slightly larger 2020i or 3020.

The 2010/3010 have a 4" (100mm) bass driver with response down to 68hz.

The 2020/3020 have a 125mm (~5") bass driver rated down to 64hz.

The Monitor Audio Bronze 1 have a bit deeper bass, with a bit crisper presentation, but not excessively bright. (140mm (5.5"), 55hz)

Wharfedale Diamond 220
= 130mm (5"), 56hz

Tannoy Mercury V1i = 130mm (5"), 45hz

Keep in mind, there is also the Monitor Audio Bronze 2 with a 6.5" (165mm) bass driver and response down to 42hz.

I would recommend that you not get less than a 5" (130mm) bass driver.

The Marantz, Denon, and Yamaha integrated amp/CD systems are all very good, and well worth considering. Though admittedly pushing your budget up pretty high. The only missing factor is Radio. Many radio station are now broadcasting on the Internet, so if you have a Smart Phone, or other Smart Device, you could add Bluetooth to the component systems and send music/news from your phone. A good Bluetooth Receiver cost about £50.

Again the Mini-Amps are very high featured. Though most of the moderately price ones have very basic power. Sufficient, but lean.

Amps like the Marantz MCR-610 have stronger power, but still on the low side relative to component systems. The Marantz 610 is rated at 60w/ch to 6 ohms, so about 45w/ch to a more standard 8 ohms. That does puts it well above other Mini systems, ...but... it runs £300.

Superfi - In-Store Clearance (Derby) - MARANTZ MCR610 WH CD/NETWORK/DAB+ SYSTEM(NO SPKRS)

Also keep in mind there is a new Marantz MCR611 is out. The Marantz 610 would be closer to £500 were in not on close out.

Here are a couple of Marantz MCR611 packages with speaker we have discussed to give you an idea of the price -

Superfi - Marantz MCR611 Networked Mini System with Wharfedale Diamond 220 Speakers

Superfi - Marantz MCR611 Networked Mini System with Monitor Audio Bronze 1 Speakers

There is a Denon model that has power similar to the Marantz, let me see if I can find it.

Superfi - Denon CEOL RCDN9 CD/FM/USB/WiFi Networked Mini System With Airplay

The Denon Ceol RCDN9 is about 32w to 8 ohms. That's pretty good.

As to power, if power is rated at 6 ohms, multiply it by 0.75 to get the standard 8 ohms power. If it is rated at 4 ohms, then multiply about 0.50 to get an approximation of the standard 8 ohm power.


if you get component, and if you want to add a Radio Tuner, it is going to add considerably to your budget -

Hifi tuners at Superfi

There are a few component Recievers worth considering. Though they are few and far between in the UK

Onkyo TX8020, 50w/ch, AM/FM (no DAB) - £189 -

Superfi - Onkyo TX8020 Receiver

And the matchin Onkyo CD Player -

Onkyo C7030 CD Player - £189 -


Superfi - Onkyo C7030 CD Player

More in your implied price range -

Denon DM40DAB = 30w/ch to 6 ohms, ~ 22w/ch to 8 ohms

Yamaha CRXN56D = 32w/ch to 6 ohms, ~24w/ch to 8 ohms

Denon CEOL RCDN9 = 65w/ch to 4 ohms, ~ 32w/ch to 8 ohms


Just a few thoughts.

Steve/bluewizard
 
Guys thank you again so much for the info. I keep getting drawn to these Wharfedale Diamond 220 speakers. I havent heard them yet but everything I keep reading/seeing is only good. Think these are at the top my list at the minute (minus the demo part of course)

I keep thinking about this whole seperates vs mini system scenario. To give you a bit more detail about what these will be used for:-

Monday-Friday - will never be used. Me at work in the day then at night it is all hands on deck with the little one and sofa/TV time with the mrs.
Saturday morning - listening to music on the new hi-fi
Saturday afternoon - listening to the football commentary via DAB (If the game is on!), alternatively if not; going on my teams website and listening through that as they have every commentary from their games each week. This will ideally be through the new hi-fi. I think i will need a 3.5mm input on the new system or a 3.5mm to phono lead so i can listen to it from my laptop into hi-fi(?)
Saturday evening - Probably listening to new hi-fi if have friends round for dinner/watching films via the home cinema
Sunday morning and afternoon - listening to music on the new hi-fi
Sunday evening - not used

I will only use this for pure music - I have no plans to add turntables to this (slim interest), nor connect it to the TV for surround sound (got Pioneer VSX922 for this), or stream anything from this (got Sonos in the kitchen) - literally only want to use this for music listening of my CD's and DAB radio.

At the moment that is all i can envisage this being used for. So given the above do you still think seperates are ideal for my needs or a mini hi-fi as mentioned?

Next question - which again is a massive minefield! :laugh: - so the specs of these Wharfedale speakers say recommended amplifier power - 25-100watts and nominal impedance is 8ohms with the minimum being 4ohms. So if we looked at the below mini hi-fi's what would does it all mean for me and my speakers:-

Denon DM40DAB - 30watts per channel 6ohms
Pioneer XCHM51DAB - 50 watts per channel 4ohms
Pioneer XC-P01DAB - 75watts per channel 4ohms
Marantz MCR610 - 60watts per channel 6ohms

My budget might slightly go up given your next answer but just dont tell the mrs :laugh: !

So given the specs of the speaker and specs of the above hi-fi systems which one of them would be (in layman's terms):-

a. entry level system - would just be "ok"
b. middle of the road - would sound good but could do better
c. rolls royce - would be the perfect fit and then some

I am ever nearing my decision i promise :)
 
haha! Just also found out that my current "stereo" Sony CMT-FX250 is 5watt per channel 4ohms!
 

Denon DM40DAB - 30watts per channel 6ohms
Pioneer XCHM51DAB - 50 watts per channel 4ohms
Pioneer XC-P01DAB - 75watts per channel 4ohms
Marantz MCR610 - 60watts per channel 6ohms


Denon DM40DAB = 22w/ch to 8 ohms
Pioneer XCHN51DAB = 25w/ch to 8 ohms
Pioneer XC-P01DAB = 35w/ch to 8 ohms
Marantz MCR610 = 45w/ch to 8ohms


Though these power rating are slightly optimistic.

Generally in normal stereos, you want 30w or more, though 45w/ch or more would be better. However, 45w/ch to 50w/ch is fine. I had a 45w/ch Pioneer stereo for a few decades; loved that amp.

But the power ratings you are seeing above for Mini-Amps is pretty typical. Generally 20w/ch to 30/ch at 8 ohms. That's fine for casual or close listening.

These are very feature rich amp. You just have to accept that these amp have modest power. If that fits your needs, then really it is fine.

However, if you can raise your budget, the Marantz MCR610 has decent power and lots of features. But the systems are running closer to £500.

This is a pretty good deal on the new Marantz 611 -

Superfi - Marantz MCR611 Networked Mini System with Wharfedale Diamond 220 Speakers

And this is a pretty good deal on the Marantz 610 -

Marantz MCR610 with 2020i

Marantz MCR610 - Wharfedale Diamond 220

Marantz MCR610 with BX1

Marantz MCR610 with BX2

Your money, your choice. Myself I would prefer Component separates, though I admit that would cost more to get the features you want.

There is one other options, but the prices is going to be steep. The Yamaha RN500 Network Receiver is very fairly priced and has tons of features and decent power. However, it is AM/FM, not DAB or DAB+.

Yamaha RN500 Network Receiver, 80w/ch, DAC, Network Streaming, Phono, Sub Out - £310 -


Superfi - Yamaha RN500 Networked Receiver

Add those to the Wharfedale Diamond 220 (or similar) and this is what you have -

£170/ea = Yamaha CDS300 CD Player
£310/ea = Yamaha RN500 Network Receiver
£200/pr = Diamond 220 bookshelf speakers
----------------------
£680 = TOTAL


Just an additional thought.

Steve/bluewizard
 
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Cheers Steve -what am I missing here then or not understanding....I put the specs down on what it said the stereos were....yet the ones you wrote in bold are the same stereos yet difference in specs...is what you wrote kind of like the "actual" and the ones I wrote/from manufacturer are like the "optimistic" figures? Sorry for being daft but I mean the denon dm40bad as an example - so I wrote 30watts per channel 6ohms and you've wrote 22watts per channel to 8ohms. What am I missing here? Because I don't understand that bit lol
 
There is a Trade Standard for Rating the power on HI-FI systems. The mere fact that these amps are not rated to that standard indicates that the manufacturer does not consider these Hi-Fi systems. The standards is very precise, and the power is rated with continuous tones 20hz to 20,000hz to an 8 ohm resistive load.

8 ohms is the standard load for rating power in a Hi-Fi system. I've adjusted all those rated powers to their 8 ohm equivalent. Though likely it is just a bit less, though no need to quibble over a watt or two.

Amps do not supply power, the supply Voltage to the speaker, and as a result the speaker consumes CURRENT, and the work done by the flow of that current is rated in in Watts of power. So, Amps supply Voltage and Speaker consume power.

If you supply 10v to 4 ohm you have increase current flow and therefore increased power consumption.

Power = Voltage X Current

Current = Voltage / Resistance


Here is another formula for Power -

Power = V² / R

So, using this last formula -

10 volts, 4 ohms -

P = 10² / 4 = 100 / 4 = 25 Watts

10 volts, 8 ohms -

P = 10² / 8 = 100 / 8 = 12.5 Watts

For the same applied voltage, the 4 ohms speaker CONSUMES more Current and therefore more Power. But that is an inflated rating. As is power to a 6 ohm rating.

Though in reality this doesn't quite hold up, in theory every thing is proportional.

If the power is rated at 6 ohms, that is 6/8 or 0.75 to get the 8 ohm power.

30 w (6 ohms) X 0.75 = 22.5 watts (8 ohms)

There are other factors whereby they cheat the power ratings. Many of the amps only rate the power with one channel driven. If you drive both channels, that takes twices as much current and is twice as hard on the Power Supply. The power with both channels driven will be smaller.

Equally, they only test the power at 1,000hz, which is a very easy frequency. If the amp is test across 20hz to 20,000hz, the average power rating is not going to be as high. Again, this is just a cheat on the power rating, a means of inflating it.

With 4 ohms vs 8 ohms, the difference is simply Half; 4/8 = 0.50. So if an amp is rated at 60 watt so 4 ohms, then it is only 30w to 8 ohms.

To be able to fairly compare amps, they all need the same power rating to the same impedance. The best we can do is adjust them within the limits of our ability to know.

Using the power rating you quoted, we can't compare the amps. Using my adjusted power rating, we can see the amp all on equal footing.

Does that help?

Voltage is the potential to do work.

Current is the work being done.

Power is the measure of the amount of work that was done.

Steve/bluewizard
 
ah yes i get it now thank you for the explanation.

ok, so say i went down the seperates route then (i understand there is a lot more cost involved in this) I am going to need an amplifier, cd player and DAB tuner, what should I look for in these and are there any that you would absolutely recommend?
 
Gents! So I have been into Richer Sounds and had a demo of the mini hifi's we have been discussing. We played the Pioneer XCHM51DAB, Denon DM40DAB, Cambridge Audio One, and the Marantz MCR610 in the demo room. Speaker wise we also had the Wharfedale Diamond 220's, Q Acoustic 2020i, Cambridge Audio SX60, and the Dali Zenso 1's.

Ok - so here are my thoughts. I discounted the Audio One straight away - i thought the sound just was "too warm" - again with the Marantz - I just could not "hear" the cost difference between the denon and the marantz to justify another ~£100. We played the Denon and I like dthat, thought it was ok, and played the Pioneer which to be honest I thought that one was the best. The bass sounded good and I could hear each of the instruments as I have wanted to do - i thought on the other hifi's the music just sounded "lost" when a vocal of the track playing kicked in. So if I had to choose out of all of these I would probably go for the Pioneer but it is a close call between that and the Denon.

Secondly the speakers - played the 220's first off and I was really disappointed - just didnt sound very "deep", so swapped them for the CA SX60 - I loved these; thought they were great. Tried the 2020i's and despite everyone saying these are really bassy and amazing I just wasnt blown away, nor was I impressed with the Dali's either (maybe I was expecting too much). I kept going back to the SX60's if I am honest.

Unfortunately as much as I loved the Pioneer with the SX60's and possibly the Denon with the SX60's too I am still left "wanting more". I would not say i am truly blown away with any of them I demo'd.

With that in mind I have been now looking at going seperates - budgets aside but within reason....

I really like the Cambridge Audio brand and keep going back to that. From what I heard of the SX60 and saw it, i really like it and would look great in our house too.

Talking about the house - more thoughts have gone into what I want out of this, and in an aesthetics side of thinking ideally I want to position all the seperates in the conservatory, however have 2 x speakers wired into the dining room on stands. Then in the future I want to be able to wire another 2 speakers into the amp and have these in the dining room, and the ability to switch between listening to speakers A (dining room) and speakers B (conservatory) as with a nice sofa and furniture etc going in the conservatory i can go in there and listen to music whilst daughter and mrs is in the lounge watching TV for example and it will not disturb them.

So, an Excel spreadsheet has been started, of all different wattages/amps/cd players/frequencies etc and I need advice/experience on these following systems:-

Amps
CA Topaz SR10
CA Azur 651A
CA Topaz SR20
Marantz PM6005

CD Players
CA Azur 651C
Marantz CD6005
Denon DCD720AE
Onkyo C7030
Onkyo CN7050

Speakers
Monitor Audio Bronze BX2 - reading alot of good things about these but didnt demo - will do on next demonstration I think.
CA SX60 (really liked these in my demo)
CA Aero 2
Monitor Audio bronze 2
CA Aeromax 2

All above speakers have a 165mm bass driver.

So, given the above, and budgets aside (to a certain degree) what are your thoughts/experiences on the products and do you think I will be left with a more "wow" feeling than the hifi demo I had?

I now I am going round in circles but I really appreciate your answers/help.
 
Of the amps listed, the Cambridge 651A and the Marantz 6005 are the best quality. The Topaz are a lower cheaper line of amps. Though more affordable, I wouldn't, personally, consider them.

Of the two amps mentioned, the Cambridge has the most power at 75w/ch to 8 ohms (I believe).

In CD Players, the same, Cambridge and Marantz. Though the Onkyo might be OK. I have experience with the Onkyo amps, but not the CD Players.

As to the speakers, that is down to personal taste. Definitely give the Bronze 2 a try. THough I think it is going to be hard to find the BX2, but if you can, certainly worth a listen and probably at a bargain price.

I believe the Marantz amp has an Optical/Coaxial DAC, where as the Cambridge only has a USB-PC DAC. If there is any chance you might want to connect the Stereo to a TV for TV and movie watching, having an optical input is an advantage. Though they can be purchased as a separate item.

Tuners are the problem, as tuner have somewhat given way to Internet Radio and Internet Music Streaming, and tuners lean to the expensive side. Even further complicated by the UK moving to Digital Radio (DAB/DAB+).

You have to judge the features and the price, and make a determination -

Richer Sounds - Tuners -

Tuners | DAB Tuners | Hifi Separates | Richer Sounds

SuperFi - Tuners -

Hifi tuners at Superfi

The Yamaha TD500 Tuner has DAB/DAB+/FM/AM but it is priced at almost £300.

The simple straight forward TIBO DAB430 has DAB/FM for a more modest £120.

The TOPAZ should not be completely discounted, merely kept in perspective. The Topaz SR20 seems to be very rich in features. Both models are Receivers with very good power - SR10(£250) = 85w/ch, SR20(£350) = 100w/ch. But they are AM/FM, not DAB/DAB+.

The Topaz SR20 has Digital inputs - 2xOptical, 1xCoaxial, so that is a Plus.

But in terms of overall quality, the Cambridge 651A(£320) and the Marantz 6005(£299) are better.

I think if you want Silver, you can get the Cambridge 651A for as low as £250.

The Yamaha amps, also available at Richer's, are better value, but you will have to judge for yourself if you like the sound.

The Yamaha AS501(£225/£239) is especially good value, just a bit more than the AS301 (£220), both have decent power (AS501=85w/ch; AS301=60w/ch). Both have Optical and Coaxial Digital inputs. [Richer Sounds prices]

At Superfi and Peter Tyson, you can get the Yamaha RN500 Network Receiver (AM/FM) with streaming and DAC for £310.

Just a range of options.

Steve/bluewizard
 
Let me throw a spanner into the works.

Naim Mu-so
 
Not really what I am after as want a Cd player really.

Regarding the Azur 651C it says CD-RW playback but says no mp3 compatibility. Do CD-RW's not have mp3 files on them anyway? When burning a CD this way what files would I need to put on the CD-RW for it to play on the 651c then?
 
Hmm, if most of your music is digitised anyway, you're better off playing it off a laptop/PC via asynchronous USB or if you're Linn, streaming through your network.

But what the 651C means it can play CDRWs if they are burned in the same format as audio CDs. ie cda. The surface of CDRWs and CDRoms are slightly different and older CDPs had problems. But on the decoding side, the 651C can only read CD audio. So no difference to audio CDs.

To read mp3s, you basically burn the CDR like a drive. You get if I remember correctly, 640MB of data space. As audio CDs, its limited by time which is about 60min-ish. A good burning software should guide you on that.
 
cool, i will play them off my phone, laptop as well, but just wanted to make sure i can still burn cd's and play them as i have a lot of mixes etc i have done myself that i would want to play through the 651c
 
My personal opinion of course, but I would rip any legacy CDs using EAC, backed up in NASs. CDR/RWs degrade over time.

And again, as a package, IMHO, the Mu-so offers the best SQ. No wires, plugs, multiple sockets, setups etc. Ease of use ensures usage.

When I first started in hifi as a skint student/recent grad, I used an integrated Rotel without remote control. Its a bit of a chore to load a CD, turn everything on in sequence etc. So I hardly used the system. When mp3s started taking off, I started listening through my PC speakers more!

When I had my upgrade 2 years ago with everything streamed and via remote, now using apps, I listen to my system every night. Learnt my lesson.

So while separates are an attractive idea, I think there are devices that give it a serious alternative at the entry level end. If I was a student living in hostels now, I would happily live with a B&W T7, P7 headphones and stream through a Sony ZX1 or the upcoming Pioneer XDR-100. But that's me.
 
Most of the Marantz MCR610 packages I listed at Peter Tyson are no longer available, but they do still have some Marantz 610 in stock -

Marantz M-CR610

Marantz MCR610 - Q Acoustics 3020

Peter Tyson still has the previous version Monitor Audio Bronze, which would be good speakers at a fantastic price - (BX1=£120/pr, BX2=$150/pr)

Monitor Audio BX1

Monitor Audio BX2

Given the deep discounts on the Bronse BX series, and the discount price on the Marantz 610, though stretching your budget, that would be a very good high-value system.

And of course other speakers that have been discussed -

Wharfedale Diamond 220

Curious, when you heard the Wharfedale Diamond 220 were the Grills on? The tweeter Grill is something of a problem and needs to be off when playing music. Apparently the difference is night and day.

(Bronze 1 = £230, Bronze 2 = £280)


Monitor Audio Bronze 1

Monitor Audio Bronze 2

Peter Tyson also has very good package deals on the Yamaha RN500 Network Receiver -

Yamaha R-N500 - Monitor Audio BX2

Yamaha CDS300

So -

£470/st = Yamaha RN500 + Monitor Audio BX2
£170/ea = Yamaha CDS300 CD Player
------------------------
$640 = Total


That is a difficult system to beat at that price. You get DAC with Optical/Coaxial inputs, Network Streaming of Audio from local storage and from the Internet, AM/FM, 80w/ch, decent sized speaker with good bass, and a matching CD Player.

Also, note you can buy the above with the Yamaha AS301 (60w/ch, DAC, £230) or the Yamaha AS501 (85w/ch, DAC, £250) for a bit less money, but you don't get Audio Streaming.

The only thing you don't get with the Yamaha RN500 is DAB/DAB+.

The Marantz 610 breaks down like this - (Peter Tyson) -

£310/ea = Marantz MCR610
£150/pr = Monitor Audio Bronze BX2
-------------------
$460 = Total


That Marantz system gives you good/acceptable power, good speakers, lots of features at very near your suggested budget. Not my choice, but certainly a good choice.

Steve/bluewizard
 

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