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Need what sockets on portable TV for avi editing ?

Discussion in 'Camcorders, Action Cams & Video Editing Forum' started by Merlin, Feb 16, 2005.

  1. Merlin

    Merlin
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    I learnt a while back from this forum that for correct editing of avi in e.g. premiere, a portable TV will let me see truly what the final product looks like whilst a PC monitor will not.

    I have a chance of a portable TV for very little money. Even to get me up and running until such time as a better one appears it may be worth going for.

    QUESTION: what sockets should I look for on it to decide if its of use to me ?

    I have an MSI GeForce FX5950 Ultra video card which has Svideo in and out and phono in/out (from what I can remember/visualise as typing this without it to hand) on a plugin accessory. Of course there is the usual PC monitor socket. I also have a WinTVgo card with coaxial socket though not sure if thats input only ? I have captured live TV with it though quality poor.

    Lets say the portable has just coaxial, which as its an alba is likely :rolleyes:
    and lets say the coaxial WinTVgo socket can output to it, do I dispense with the PC monitor during the usage of the TV or will both work together ?

    If coaxial, I also wonder if the PC just outputs to it with no settings having to be made in WinTVgo program, I hope so as then perhaps no chance of that prog possibly lessening the quality of what I see. Does anyone have experience of this.

    Cheers
    Merlin :)
     
  2. Roy Mallard

    Roy Mallard
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    Some video cards will otput video (it's a control panel option, or on xp, right click your mouse on the desktop and follow display options).

    I would actually recommend taking the line out from your camcorder or dv deck (which is connected to pc through firewire, run a phono or scart from camcorder or deck into tv) as it's less strain on the video card.

    If you have to convert from a composite (phono or scart) into a coaxial then an RF convertor is what you need, these cost around £35-50, although a brand new portable with a scart in will only cost around £50....
     
  3. Roy Mallard

    Roy Mallard
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    Ps. on premiere you can set a monitor option to give you two frames within your preview, the outer frame is for 'action safe, the inner frame for 'title safe', although there are other benefits to having a conventional tv connected (scan pattern & colour repro).
     
  4. Merlin

    Merlin
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    Roy, Thanks for the reply,

    Firstly can I keep PC monitor runing during all this ?

    Connections.....My Camcorder has AV In/OutPhones which is a 3.5mm jackplug socket, also S-Video In/Out and firewire socket. What you are suggesting then is if I fancy some video editing of avi files captured say last week, to power up the camcorder, firewire it to the PC, then if the portable has just coaxial in (worst for quality...so hope not), ....

    1) either get my 3.5mm jackplug to phonos, stick this in AV in/out and stick the phonos into RF converter thence into coaxial on portable TV

    or for a few pounds more, ....get a new portable TV with scart
    if so, then I guess get a scart to 3.5mm jackplug for the AVin/out Phones socket supplying portable TV with sound and vision.
    But considering the S-Video in/out methinks it would be better to use that for the picture, so can I get a scart to 3.5mm jackplug AND S-Video ???

    Need guidance here, would S-video in and phono red/white in be simpler, two leads to the two sockets on the camcorder or the PC ?

    Wouldnt life be great if all connections used just one cable !

    Ideally then the TV needs S-Video in and red and white phonos in I would think. I could even then try the S-video out perhaps from the video card, though you say this could be a strain and best use camcorder...yes, would this be so at 256Mb ram ?

    I boobed on the MSI accessory, it hasn't sound out, silly me :rolleyes: , its labelled V Out and is a phono type socket but intended for yellow phonos. Sound out would be from the Audigy 2 sound card.

    Merlin :)
     
  5. Roy Mallard

    Roy Mallard
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    S-video would be better, but you would be unlikely to find a portable tv with an S-Video input.

    The reason most folk use a tv plugged in is to check colour, motion and framing (what you see on the desktop monitor and on a tv will be quite different), in actual fact if it's just a reference you want, the camcorder LCD is fairly accurate, if on the small side.

    When you say 256mb are yuo referring to your video card or your machines RAM?.
     
  6. Merlin

    Merlin
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    Hi Roy,
    I am referring to the video cards memory, the PC has also 2Gb DDRAM. :cool:

    Merlin>>But considering the S-Video in/out methinks it would be better to use >>that for the picture, so can I get a scart to 3.5mm jackplug AND S-Video ???

    >>Need guidance here, would S-video in and phono red/white in be simpler, >>two leads to the two sockets on the camcorder or the PC ?

    but you say

    Roy <unlikely to find a portable tv with an S-Video input.>

    Humph ! I looked at this portable today and it had scart and coaxial, but no handset...lost...so no adjustment save for program and volume !

    So portable with scart is as good as it gets, how do I go scart on TV to 3.5mm jackplug for sound and scart to s-video for picture on camcorder ???
    is there such a lead ?

    Puzzled :confused: :(

    Merlin
     
  7. MarkE19

    MarkE19
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    To connect your cam to the TV scart get One of these and just plug the jack to 3 phono lead that came with the cam into it. If the TV does have S-Video input via scart then remove the yellow phono from the scaart adapter and plug an S-Video lead in instead, but keep the red & white phonos for audio (if required, but could use the PC speakers instead!).

    Mark.
     
  8. Roy Mallard

    Roy Mallard
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    If your tv lacks an s-video connection then there is no way to enable an s-video input.

    The s-video signal is split by brightness and colour, whereas with an ordinary scart this information is combined (composite).

    The best you are going to get with a portable is either scart or phono (composite) in.

    I think you'll need to make do.
     
  9. Merlin

    Merlin
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    markE19 and Roy,
    I was flying high there for a minute,
    so s-video is wasted as input into a scart output gubbins as scart doesnt keep the quality of s-video...yes ? I may as well use the yellow phono on it. However the item is useful if a portable has only scart input, at least I can use it to connect up my camcorder to a portable Tv with only scart input available.

    Shame that portables dont have s-video input. Do video editors with premiere have a domestic non portable sitting on the workbench by the PC :eek:

    I see a Toshiba pureflat portable TV 15V31B with yellow phono etc for £119 and weight 11kg (24lb) thats heavier than normal ones :eek:

    Is this type of screen okay for editing given the need to go real Tv as opposed to PC monitor ?

    Roadstar PK5R5014BAG Portable Handheld Personal TV. 12.5cm x 15.5cm screen a little less also £119 and AV inputs. Not too small and perhaps more practical in my workspace. What of this type of screen and refresh rates etc etc...okay ?

    Cheers Merlin
     
  10. Roy Mallard

    Roy Mallard
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    Scart can be wired for y/c (yet ANOTHER name for s-video), and a scart socket can be dual S-video and composite, but the problem lies with the tv, not necessarily the connection.

    I personally use two computer monitors (one for timeline, clip bin and vu meters, one for the video monitor) and have the guideframes enabled.

    I rarely plug an external monitor in unless I'm using lower thirds or I'm editing somebody elses material.

    Premiere Pro now has a vectorscope and waveform monitor built in, which for single camera usually eliminates the need for an external monitor (for me at least)

    If I'm editng a multi camera shoot I may plug in an engineering monitor (BNC/composite or component) just to check vertical and horizontal phasing on each camera and on output.

    The main thing to be assured of is that the jaggies (jaggy edges on fast moving subjects) won't show up on a normal tv, although they may on a vdu, there will be more contrast on a regular tv set and a wider gamut (range of colour).

    Unless you are doing stuff for broadcast I wouldn't really bother with the hassle.
     
  11. Merlin

    Merlin
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    Hi Roy,
    So bottom line is its ok to use PC monitor for editing, certainly for beginners, for physical assembly of clips anyway. If you see the jaggies on motion it may not be there on TV. Whats best there though, carry on with the editing etc, write the DVD with output at 8000 bitrate and trust that it will be ok, or when jaggies first seen try to playback on a TV to check they dont exist then carry on ? What is the cause if they do exist on TV and what is the remedy ? I had comb teeth effect occasionally on edges in first session on PC but then next day looked again and they were not there.

    I have some dark underexposed footage I wish to improve the levels on, thought Prem6.5 did this but see I need Pro :rolleyes: and am I ok to trust monitor for this sort of adjustment or better to use TV ?

    If TV then would those flatscreens or hand helds be ok, or does traditional tube give a better hardware to work with regards truly seeing effects of tweaks ? I know that its easier to calibrate a crt PC monitor than a flatscreen, tried it once and found brightness and contrast settings were complete reciprocal of those for crt to get a greyscale correct, Adobe advise of a program purchase costing £300 for calibrating flatscreen as such screens are not so easily done, nigh on impossible I found. These flatscreens may be different to the portable tv ones though as these PC ones are 1inch thick !

    Merlin :)
     
  12. Roy Mallard

    Roy Mallard
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    crt moniors and tv's win every time.

    lower yor bitrate, 6000 or 7000 is still high quality, I've found that 8000 doesn't always play back on every machine.

    You can fix contrast & brightness in 6.5, video effects>image control> brightness contrast & take it from there.
     
  13. Merlin

    Merlin
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    Thanks Roy,
    Quite liked the idea of the palm size TV mentioned...oh well. Being realistic about space implications it excludes a portable in front of me unless I remove PC monitor (not easy), stick TV on a stool to my side and get twist neck syndrome is the option ! If CRT TV is better then I guess if I need TV for judging the picture adjustment thats the way to go. Got nowhere to put it afterwards though :rolleyes:

    Merlin
     
  14. d-signet

    d-signet
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    if its a space issue, these are pretty good value and size :

    6 inch lcd tv
     

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