Question Need help verifying speaker levels

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Mitsubushix, Jun 13, 2018.

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    1. Mitsubushix

      Mitsubushix
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      I need some expert help with my current setup. I’ve recently upgraded to 5.1.2 setup Dolby Atmos.
      I’m using Denon 2400h with Dali zensor 1 5.1 setup with Dali Alteco c1 upfire spkrs

      My levels seem a bit out of sorts. Especially the C1 upfirers compared to all the rest

      Atmos tracks don’t seem to really do what I was expecting in regards to the bubble effect.
      Not sure if the c1 levels are correct
       

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    2. dante01

      dante01
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      The Atmos upfirers will ordinarily require that they are set with higher levels because the audio is having to be bounced off the ceiling before it reaches your listening position. They are also small and more compact than your other speakers which are rated as being slightly more sensitive than the C1 speakers.

      You need a handheld SPL meter if wanting to check the levels. No one can tell you if the levels are correct without actually taking readings.
       
    3. gibbsy

      gibbsy
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      Having upfiring speakers myself I would say those readings are fine.
       
    4. Mitsubushix

      Mitsubushix
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      Thanks for the replies. I don’t have a handheld SPL meter however I do have an app which I could use to check.
      I’m a bit of a perfectionist and just want to make sure I have everything correct

      On another note I’ve been testing Atmos using Kodi and Dolby Atmos demo files, I’ve noticed if Atmos is coded in 5.1 it plays with Atmos displayed on AVR however if it’s 7.1 I get no sound at all until I change the audio track to 5.1 ac3 which obviously isn’t Atmos

      Is this because my setup is only 5.1.2 and not 7.1.2
      I thought my AVR would just use 5.1.2 for Atmos?
      What am I missing?
       
    5. gibbsy

      gibbsy
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      Your receiver is correctly configured for Atmos, that is evident from the test image you posted. I' know nothing about Kodi but as you don't have the right number of speakers and the fact that the 2400 can only give a maximum of 5.1.2 or 7.1 then the 7.1 Atmos from Kodi will not be recognised and not play correctly. Stick to the correct demo of 5.1.2.
       
    6. Mitsubushix

      Mitsubushix
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      Many thanks for the info.
      Does that mean that movies that are coded in Atmos have separate audio track for 5.1 7.1 Atmos setups. Or is the metadata adjusted to compensate for the users setup for atmos
       
    7. dante01

      dante01
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      Atmos soundtracks all come packaged as a 7.1 base layer plus Atmos metadata. The formats used are either 7.1 TrueHD or 7.1 Dolby Digital Plus. The metadata is the part that tells your receiver which aspects of the 7.1 audio are objects and your receiver maps these to the speaker configuration you have.
       
    8. Mitsubushix

      Mitsubushix
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      So how does a 5.1.2 setup decode atmos metadata from 7.1 TrueHD? Does it only play certain parts of the atmos? Therefore not getting the true atmos effect provided from 7.1 setup?
       
    9. dante01

      dante01
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      Atmos is not a channel based formats and is object based. The metadata holds the information that the receiver needs to extract the objects from the 7.1 audio. The receiver then maps the movement of these objects as defined by the metadata around your room using the speaker layout it has available to it.
       
    10. dante01

      dante01
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    11. Mitsubushix

      Mitsubushix
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      Ah I see many thanks for the explanation
       
    12. martimu

      martimu
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      Kodi can be a bit of a pain to get the sound parameters right (I've had to google it now on 3 occasions when I've reinstalled it) you need to go into the settings and make sure passthrough etc is on. You can also tell it how many speakers you are using if you wish.

      You may have done this already but worth checking to make sure the settings haven't changed after an update
       
    13. gibbsy

      gibbsy
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      Your 2400 is capable of a maximum of seven channels of in two configurations, either a base 7.1 or a 5.1.2 in an Atmos set up. In the base layer you could also have just 5.1. Playing a 7.1 encoded soundtrack then the two channels that make up that 7.1 will be downmixed into 5.1.

      With Atmos your receiver is only capable of using two Atmos speakers. All Atmos discs come with the metadata in the Dolby TrueHD audio stream. It is the receiver that decides how to use this metadata depending on how many speakers for Atmos are available. In the case of the 2400 that is just two.

      It gets very interesting with just ordinary DVDs or blu rays as the upmixers used by Denon, Dolby Surround and DTS Neural will take the base layer and give you overhead effects through the Atmos speakers. To me this is the beauty of Atmos enabled receivers, something that has greatly improved my listening enjoyment.
       
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    14. Lesmor

      Lesmor
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      Your best bet is to get a SPL meter and the Dolby Atmos test disc the one that also includes the test tones
      There is also one audio only track on the disc of a helicopter panning overhead to demonstrate the height effect
       
    15. mb3195

      mb3195
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      Is there an atmos disc that includes test tones for all channels?
       
    16. dante01

      dante01
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      You don't need a test disc to check the levels. Simply run the AV receiver's own test tine generator and it will output a test tone via each and every speaker you have in your setup.
       
    17. Lesmor

      Lesmor
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      Yes the 2015 discs provides
      Test tones 5.1.2
      Test tones 5.1.4
      Test tones 7.1.2
      Test tones 7.1.4
      Test tones 9.1.6
      Although you can use the AVR test tone generator it doesn't account for a EQ'd system
      In any case I have found that there is no consistency with using the AVR or any test disc I own its a matter of finding one that suit your personal preference
       
    18. mb3195

      mb3195
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      Cheers mate, my arcam test tones are miles out against my spears and Munsil disc.
       
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    19. Lesmor

      Lesmor
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      I have the same issue with Audyssey and correcting it makes a profound difference in the surround field

      One thing I have always found using S&M and other test discs is that the center channel always measures +4db hot, where when using the internal AVR test tones it measure spot on

      Although counterintuitive I find that reducing the center channel and bringing it back in line with the rest improves the front soundstage panning and depth while still maintaining good dialogue intelligibility
      Again it comes down to personal preference
       
    20. DodgeTheViper

      DodgeTheViper
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      There’s so many ways of measuring the speaker levels. I use the AVR test tones as I didn’t notice much difference to using a disc. But I do use REW to measure those levels. I found a bigger difference between a SPL meter and a calibrated mic like the UMIK-1.

      I have the base layer all exactly the same and the centre channel doesn’t suffer one bit. All my Atmos channels are 3db hotter than the base layer.

      Works a treat . . . . for me.
       
    21. stewjoy

      stewjoy
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      Even if REW puts your Atmos speakers at the same level as the rest of your speakers are you saying you increase them above the REW level.
       
    22. DodgeTheViper

      DodgeTheViper
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      I use REW to measure, the AVR sets them. I put the Atmos Channels 3db hotter than the base layer.

      So wherever you have your base layer, lets say that's 70db, I would have Atmos Channels at 73db.
       

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