Need help to identify suitable replacement - SVS PC2000 or Monolith+?

RW86

Novice Member
Hello,



After some advice please.



I currently have an old 5.1 setup that i’ve had for many years.

Just moved house and the old subwoofer (Snell PS.10 mk.2) has given up the ghost.

Taking this as an opportunity to upgrade and have come across the Monolith Plus as a well regarded sub for the price (600)



The room is almost exactly 4M x 4M with a standard 2.4M high ceiling.



My front main speakers are Snell XA60 Floorstanders which say they go down to 36hz. I’m powering them with a Yamaha DSP-AX1. Bi-Amped for 220w RMS to each speaker.



I’ve always been a little disappointed with the deep bass performance of the existing setup. I’ve got plenty of volume and plenty of punchy mid-bass but lacking the real solid low end.



The only other sub recommended for me was the SVS PC2000 because it’s currently on a good deal (699) and seems to fit my requirements.



Don’t know if you have any suggestions? Some people have advised that 2 sub woofers might be advisable but i’m not really keen on that as I don’t think i’ll get it past the other half and I did set out with a budget of only £400 which has continuously crept up already...
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Hey! The Snell sub you have specs lists FR 27hz -6db and fairly small 10" driver so no suprise it lacks in the bottom end.

If you can spend 800£ and require strong deep bass with also better extension over the M+ / SVS then look for Monoprice Monolith 12 THX. You can´t really beat it for the price. Nearest competitor costs 1169£. Mono 12 THX is lot more modern than BK Monolith with longer warranty, better built and better performance. People who has heard ported SVS and other brands in same room say Monoprice 12/15 sounds different in a positive way, very clean dry. I would gladly pay the extra 100£ over PC2000 if that is possible. But the SVS won`t be poor choice especially if you feel the cylinder works better in your room.


If you new to this then check below reviews. We have few owners for these if you need more information.



 
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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
However if you feel the BK M+ price is more in line with your budget then their 2nd ebay site has couple new grade-b M+ models for low price. Members haven´t found any marks on them. Normal 2year warranty.


BK Electronics Monolith Plus-DF Black 5060403220721 | eBay

 
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kbfern

Distinguished Member
I agree with Gasp the Mono 12" THX is the one to go for (I have a pair myself). Mono do have sales reasonably frequently and when they do expect to get the V1 version for around £650. They should have a sale coming up soon as the last one was Valentines day when they did a 14% disc.

May day might be possible otherwise spring bank at end May.
 

RW86

Novice Member
Thanks for the advice.

Ok, is it definitely worth going for the 12" over the 10"? Currently 799 vs 499.

Did a quick calculation of the room and it's under 1500ft2 so I'm guessing the 10 is probably adequate and a big step up from what I've been using for 15+ years.

Budget and size will be against me when negotiating with the wife.
 
Last edited:

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thanks for the advice.

Ok, is it definitely worth going for the 12" over the 10"? Currently 799 vs 499.

Did a quick calculation of the room and it's under 1500ft2 so I'm guessing the 10 is probably adequate and a big step up from what I've been using for 15+ years.

Budget and size will be against me when negotiating with the wife.

I would still opt for the 12" model as the price difference is so small and you likely get discount code if you contact them via email. Ask it for Monolith 12 THX, the latest model is called M12 V2 which has about same performance, but different looks and costs few hundred extra. You can always turn down the larger one, but you won´t get more from the small one and upgraditis may hit you sooner than you think so better safe than sorry.

If possible make cardboard mock up to show the size (12 THX) for wife so it won´t come as suprise if you manage to get discount code from Monolith UK. If it`s too large then i would rather buy PC2000 over the Mono 10 THX as you get better performance overall while still while taking less floorspace for 200£ extra which is well worth it for long term. If you have more placement options with the PC2000 then it could be the best option as your av-receiver doesn`t have sub eq (front corner might not sound best, perhaps 25% front wall width could be ideal to start with) and not sure are you considering buying some external box. For a plug&play device Antimode 8033 Cinema would be good and very popular with Yamaha receiver owners. Don´t panic you don´t have to buy it right away, just something to consider for future if you aren´t upgrading the Yammy and you feel the sub you buy sounds bit un-controlled and boomy.

[email protected]monoprice.com

 

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
The room is almost exactly 4M x 4M with a standard 2.4M high ceiling.

Don’t know if you have any suggestions? Some people have advised that 2 sub woofers might be advisable but i’m not really keen on that as I don’t think i’ll get it past the other half and I did set out with a budget of only £400 which has continuously crept up already...

You certainly won't get a bigger bang for the buck than those v1 Monoprice THX subs but I think you need to be careful that you still don't end up a with a really bad in-room bass response.

You have a square room which can be particularly problematical for nulls so you might want to go for a sub that at least leaves the option open (given budget/space constraints) for adding a second sub if needed.

I suggest you use the RoomSIM tool in REW (free to download and use) to evaluate single/dual sub placement options.

I don't know your room layout but as an example this is the predicted bass response in a 4x4x2.4m room if a single sub was up front to the side of the centre speaker and your seat was 2.6m from the the screen wall. It predicts a massive 20dB null in the critical chest slam region which is obviously something you'll want to avoid as 20dB lower at bass frequencies equates about only 10% of the loudness! If you're not careful, room nulls can totally destroy the subwoofer experience.

1651137179124.png


Unless I was prepared to add a matching second £800 sub down the track, for an extra £100-£200 I'd rather buy either a pair of SVS PB-1000s (£449 each) or Monoprice 10" THX subs (£499) instead over any single £800 sub such is the importance to me of having dual subwoofers in my system. Only if I knew that I couldn't ever accommodate dual subs would I buy the best single sub in my budget.

You should also note that, given a room volume of only 1,350Ft3, a single SVS PB-1000 or Mono 10" THX could hit cinema reference level SPL volumes at 20Hz so going for a more powerful sub should only change the character (e.g. speed, explosiveness) of the sound you're hearing, not its loudness.
 

gingerone

Well-known Member
I very nearly bought the SVS PC 2000 but opted for the pb 1000 instead and it is just brilliant.

I haven’t owned a BK monolith before but I have had a BK xxls200 and an xxls400 and the PB 1000 absolutely wipes the floor with them.

The PC 2000 is a bargain but as Mr wolf has said two PB1000’s should be superb.
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
Minimum RMS Output Power per Channel
MAIN L/R, CENTER, REAR L/R/C
(20 Hz to 20 kHz, 0.015% THD, 8 ohms) ------------ 110 W
FRONT L/R (1 kHz, 0.05% THD, 8 ohms) ------------ 35 W
Maximum Power [for General and China models]
MAIN L/R, CENTER, REAR L/R/C
(1 kHz, 10% THD, 8 ohms) ---------------------------- 150 W
FRONT L/R (1 kHz, 10 %THD, 8 ohms) -------------- 45 W



35w yikes That's poor. Those output figures don't make sense at all
 
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Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
Minimum RMS Output Power per Channel
MAIN L/R, CENTER, REAR L/R/C
(20 Hz to 20 kHz, 0.015% THD, 8 ohms) ------------ 110 W
FRONT L/R (1 kHz, 0.05% THD, 8 ohms) ------------ 35 W
Maximum Power [for General and China models]
MAIN L/R, CENTER, REAR L/R/C
(1 kHz, 10% THD, 8 ohms) ---------------------------- 150 W
FRONT L/R (1 kHz, 10 %THD, 8 ohms) -------------- 45 W



35w yikes That's poor. Those output figures don't make sense at all
It only doesn’t make sense if you don’t know that this model of AVR has seperate front effects height channels that require relatively little power.

Anyway, he‘s asking for advice about subs, not his AVR’s power ratings.
 

RW86

Novice Member
Minimum RMS Output Power per Channel
MAIN L/R, CENTER, REAR L/R/C
(20 Hz to 20 kHz, 0.015% THD, 8 ohms) ------------ 110 W
FRONT L/R (1 kHz, 0.05% THD, 8 ohms) ------------ 35 W
Maximum Power [for General and China models]
MAIN L/R, CENTER, REAR L/R/C
(1 kHz, 10% THD, 8 ohms) ---------------------------- 150 W
FRONT L/R (1 kHz, 10 %THD, 8 ohms) -------------- 45 W



35w yikes That's poor. Those output figures don't make sense at all
8 channels of 110w RMS @ 8 ohm with 0.015% THD sounds fine to my ears!

I know things have moved on a lot in the last 20 years but the old AX1 still packs a punch and holds it's own.
I'm the kind of person that only changes or upgrades something if there really is a need.

My floorstanders are connected to the A and B outputs so get 110w to the mids and tweeters and 110w to the bass speakers.

I don't have the additional 35w effect speakers connected anymore these days. Used to have some B&W speakers filling that but they added little and won me brownie points with the wife when they went.
 

RW86

Novice Member
I would still opt for the 12" model as the price difference is so small and you likely get discount code if you contact them via email. Ask it for Monolith 12 THX, the latest model is called M12 V2 which has about same performance, but different looks and costs few hundred extra. You can always turn down the larger one, but you won´t get more from the small one and upgraditis may hit you sooner than you think so better safe than sorry.

If possible make cardboard mock up to show the size (12 THX) for wife so it won´t come as suprise if you manage to get discount code from Monolith UK. If it`s too large then i would rather buy PC2000 over the Mono 10 THX as you get better performance overall while still while taking less floorspace for 200£ extra which is well worth it for long term. If you have more placement options with the PC2000 then it could be the best option as your av-receiver doesn`t have sub eq (front corner might not sound best, perhaps 25% front wall width could be ideal to start with) and not sure are you considering buying some external box. For a plug&play device Antimode 8033 Cinema would be good and very popular with Yamaha receiver owners. Don´t panic you don´t have to buy it right away, just something to consider for future if you aren´t upgrading the Yammy and you feel the sub you buy sounds bit un-controlled and boomy.

[email protected]monoprice.com

Thank you very much. I've sent them an email and signed up to their newsletter. I'm in no urgent rush to buy something this week so I'll see what deals may come up.

I guess I need to look more closely at the DSP side of things to get the most out of whatever I purchase. Thanks for pointing me in that direction. Although getting another box past the wife will be a fun one!
 

RW86

Novice Member
You certainly won't get a bigger bang for the buck than those v1 Monoprice THX subs but I think you need to be careful that you still don't end up a with a really bad in-room bass response.

You have a square room which can be particularly problematical for nulls so you might want to go for a sub that at least leaves the option open (given budget/space constraints) for adding a second sub if needed.

I suggest you use the RoomSIM tool in REW (free to download and use) to evaluate single/dual sub placement options.

I don't know your room layout but as an example this is the predicted bass response in a 4x4x2.4m room if a single sub was up front to the side of the centre speaker and your seat was 2.6m from the the screen wall. It predicts a massive 20dB null in the critical chest slam region which is obviously something you'll want to avoid as 20dB lower at bass frequencies equates about only 10% of the loudness! If you're not careful, room nulls can totally destroy the subwoofer experience.

View attachment 1689253

Unless I was prepared to add a matching second £800 sub down the track, for an extra £100-£200 I'd rather buy either a pair of SVS PB-1000s (£449 each) or Monoprice 10" THX subs (£499) instead over any single £800 sub such is the importance to me of having dual subwoofers in my system. Only if I knew that I couldn't ever accommodate dual subs would I buy the best single sub in my budget.

You should also note that, given a room volume of only 1,350Ft3, a single SVS PB-1000 or Mono 10" THX could hit cinema reference level SPL volumes at 20Hz so going for a more powerful sub should only change the character (e.g. speed, explosiveness) of the sound you're hearing, not its loudness.
This is so helpful!
Back when I bought the rest of this stuff, the guys on Tottenham court road weren't really interested in the room, what I listened to or any detail.
Great to have some science to help me get the best from what I have and help me make an informed decision.

Thank you.
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
8 channels of 110w RMS @ 8 ohm with 0.015% THD sounds fine to my ears!

I know things have moved on a lot in the last 20 years but the old AX1 still packs a punch and holds it's own.
I'm the kind of person that only changes or upgrades something if there really is a need.

My floorstanders are connected to the A and B outputs so get 110w to the mids and tweeters and 110w to the bass speakers.

I don't have the additional 35w effect speakers connected anymore these days. Used to have some B&W speakers filling that but they added little and won me brownie points with the wife when they went.

You're not biamping that way . A and b is powered by the same amps.

Unless your snoy has a specific bi amp mode but that was only available on newer amps.
 

RW86

Novice Member
You're not biamping that way . A and b is powered by the same amps.

Unless your snoy has a specific bi amp mode but that was only available on newer amps.
Oh, Ok. Is that bi-wiring then? Is there no advantage to this configuration?
I guess it's academic as the mains are getting more than enough power, but are they getting 110w each or 220w each?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
2x Mono 10 THX would been great with free hands on placements, but your first post said duals aren`t possible so i didn`t want to push that. Where do you have your sub positioned now as you mentioned you have plenty of mid-bass slam?

" Some people have advised that 2 sub woofers might be advisable but i’m not really keen on that as I don’t think i’ll get it past the other half "

One Mono 10 THX would satisfy the deep bass hunger, but it`s weaker in the mid-bass region compared to many subs with 12" driver. Real world comparisons. So if you stick with one sub then Mono 12 THX or PC2000, no regrets later! While the BK Monolith+ is fine performer there is constantly some amp buzzing/humming issues, related to their old class a/b amp design. SVS and Monoprice has also long 5year amp warranty which is always nice.
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
Oh, Ok. Is that bi-wiring then? Is there no advantage to this configuration?
I guess it's academic as the mains are getting more than enough power, but are they getting 110w each or 220w each?

You're bi-wiring. It'll be 110W. But being it's a AV not a dedictated amp it won't be 110W with all channels driven, it'll be when you have it in stereo. Even since it's a older higher end AVR (which generally were more capable) once you add more speakers and running in multi-channel mode, power will go down.

The only way to get 110W with all channels driven, full range, is a dedicated power amplifier.

I can't find review of your AVR but have a look at this older flagship AVR and note difference between 2 speakers and 7 speakers


As for the sub(s) you have choice of one higher end sub or two cheaper subs. 4m x 4m with low ceiling isn't a massive room, so I don't think you'll need massive subs.

£400 is cutting a bit tight there's monoprice 10" ported which is about £450 when it's on offer.
 

RW86

Novice Member
You're bi-wiring. It'll be 110W. But being it's a AV not a dedictated amp it won't be 110W with all channels driven, it'll be when you have it in stereo. Even since it's a older higher end AVR (which generally were more capable) once you add more speakers and running in multi-channel mode, power will go down.

The only way to get 110W with all channels driven, full range, is a dedicated power amplifier.

I can't find review of your AVR but have a look at this older flagship AVR and note difference between 2 speakers and 7 speakers


As for the sub(s) you have choice of one higher end sub or two cheaper subs. 4m x 4m with low ceiling isn't a massive room, so I don't think you'll need massive subs.

£400 is cutting a bit tight there's monoprice 10" ported which is about £450 when it's on offer.
Interesting info. I had no idea. Seems like false advertising to me, but what do I know?

A quick Google shows two sources that tested the A1, the predecessor to the upgraded AX1. One of them specified the result of 116 Watts with all 5 channels driven.
I would hope the 60+ lbs of this beast are doing something useful other than holding the carpet down.

I'm just going to have a go with the room simulator tool, see how placement works.

In our last house I had the sub half way between the left tower and the TV.

The room was a very different shape though, 3M x 6.5M.

I guess I have a lot of mid bass punch coming from the main speakers? Each tower has 2 x 8" bass drivers. I have them set to large on the receiver so I guess there's no high pass filter in operation.

Thank you all so much for your insights.
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
I wouldn't set them to large, from the spec 36hz, so I'd set them no lower than small 40hz.
 

RW86

Novice Member
Thanks to your help I've bought a 10" THX subwoofer from monoprice for £425.

When it arrives I'll be starting the sub crawl.

I'm being blindly optimistic that just one will be enough for me!
 

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