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Need help from all Tosh 46" DLP owners.

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by phunt, Dec 31, 2004.

  1. phunt

    phunt
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    OK guys please bear with me on this post because it could be quite lengthy.I really need help because im starting to doubt the abilities of my Tosh, but i like the tv so much that i dont want to have to get rid of it and im hoping you guys can make some suggestions to help me sort my problem,so ill start in the begging.
    I got the TV about 2 weeks ago and was initially amazed with the quality of the picture from dvd and very suprised at the quality of both sky digital and RF tv.About 2 days later i tried my pc connected to VGA and was again very pleased with the results,so much so that im now looking into getting a shuttle to have perminantly connected for 46" gaming:)
    However over the next few days after this i started to notice what i can only describe as blurry and out of focus detail on peoples faces if they were in close up and the screen panned.this was most noteable on the likes of Eastenders,Coronation street and the bill (the missus was watching them honost).I put this down to the age of my sky receiver and RF tv being crap and as i was getting SKY+ fitted on the 30th of december i decided to wait and see if that helped any.In the meantime i started to notice it slightly on dvd aswell.Anyway i got my SKY+ fitted yesterday and alas its just the same :(.I also received my Hi Def xbox kit yesterday so i copied a gladiator vob to the xbox hard drive and played it in XBMP @ 1080 and although the quality was amazing (even better than my Tosh SD330E through component) i was still getting the blurry thing when there was close up movement on peoples faces ( another way to describe the effect is its like 16bit colour on a pc as appossed to 32 bit.kind of layers of shaded colour rather than solid colour).
    After many hours fiddling with differant settings i noticed that i could pretty much totally eliminate the problem by turning the brightness quite high up in the XBMP settings but this makes the pic look pretty washed out and dissapointing.so i put gladiator back in the toshiba dvd and tried messing with the brightness settings on the TV but the same story really (clears up the blur at the expense of quaity).
    So what im asking is if you guys have gladiator could you try it for me? the point at which i was trying was 3 mins and 16 secs in when maximus is walking through the ranks,Just keep focused on his face and see if it does it on your set and if it doesnt can you post all your settings from the Picture menu (including black stretch and temp and such like).
    Oh by the way my normal viewing position is just over 3 meters away but ive sat a lot further back and still notice it.
    Sorry for the massive post but its really doing my head in :suicide:
    And any help or suggestions would be greatfully received ;)
     
  2. -TYN-

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    I also returned my Tosh because of this exact same problem, its caused by the tv having a six segment colour wheel which causes noise in darkshaded areas.
    To see this go upto the screen and look and you will notice alot of dots/noise moving around on dark areas, So whenever the picture pans it shows up bigtime. I found one of the worst examples was on need for speed underground 2 on the pc, i would do a continous doughnut and the background would turn into a huge mess. Another one is on Halo 2, in the dark corridors look at the walls then move about. Once i noticed this i began to notice it on everthing and found it unbearable.

    Hope this helps m8.

    This is my post about this problem from 2 weeks ago http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171592

    Glad someone else has seen it as i thought it stood out quite badly.
     
  3. phunt

    phunt
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    HMMMMM interesting!! but im not sure its the same problem because like i said it seems to be more noticeable to me on peoples faces (light areas) when the screen is panning and the image is close up.But thanx for the reply.
     
  4. -TYN-

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    No you are right it does show up on lighter areas, contours of faces etc when panning. But just telling you the places you can see it more.

    Try the games i said and you will see what i mean, another good example is on spiderman when he is swinging through the city at night, just look at the background and it shows up quite easily.

    Thx -TYN- :)

    My brother also has this tv and it is just the same but he is just going to live with it where as i could not.

    Let me know how you get on after viewing the examples i listed above.
     
  5. Muffminer

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    I have seen a slight blurring of some close up of faces but whe i mean slight i mean minute. It doesnt affect my viewing but i suppose once people notice it once they are on the look for it all the time (i do it all the time)

    Also i have played Halo 2 constantly since i got the TV and havent noticed anything as of yet what -TYN- has pointed out, but suppose im concentrating on the actual game to notice slight details like this, but i'll have another go and see if i can notice anything.
     
  6. phunt

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    Would be a great help if you could post up all your picture settings m8! as like i said i really dont want to have to return my tv :(
     
  7. Muffminer

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    Settings aint changed much from factory ones as of yet, still fiddling about with the tv but so far they are:

    Contrast - 75
    Brightness - 74
    Colour - 54
    Tint - 0
    Sharpness +15

    But as stated i havent played about with it so they might be crap setting for all i know.
     
  8. phunt

    phunt
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    Thanx!!! they cant be that crap or you would be seeing the problem or i just have a duff set :( I know im a pain but could you post all the seetings from the picture setup i.e DNR,black stretch,clour temp and so on.Thanx again :)
     
  9. Muffminer

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    I havent touched those settings yet, so factory i geuss.

    DNR - 2
    Black Stretch - On
    Colour temp - Normal
     
  10. lee31

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    Right Phunt, I put my R2 copy of Gladiator in & went to 3.00 mins in & let it run, I know the point where you mean (3.16) but on my TV it was perfect in both HDMI & Scart

    My settings :-

    Contrast :- 79
    Brightness :- 50
    Colour :- 38
    Tint :- 0
    Sharpness :- +2
    DNR :- HDMI off, Scart 5
    Black Stretch :- Off
    Colour Temp :- Normal
    Lamp Power :- Low

    I will say this though, I believe the interconnections of the TV are very very poor, I had a problem getting the Reds on Hi Def Xbox & have had blurry pics on Scart but as I have official MS Xbox Hi Def leads & an Ixos £75 scart, I was certain it wasnt the leads so I rattled them in & out of the TV & suddenly, everything is crystal. The blurring you noticed on faces I actually did see tonight but it was whilst the wife was watching Coronation Street on SKY, now, I have a £75 Ixos scart on Sky box too but I havent waggled that one in yet so I will do so tomorrow

    I can add that another reason for me saying this as although I have only had TV since Dec 20th it has a fault, the fault is that the Audio outs (L&R) on back of TV dont work (they did at 1st & stopped working after 4 days) and as the TV is less than 28 days old, it is being replaced

    Only thing I can suggest is waggle mate waggle lol

    Lee

    PS: I sit 3.3 mtrs away

    PPS : get back to me re my PM
     
  11. pantages

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    I haven't seen any such artefacts on mine and the picture is sharp and clean. I leave black stretch OFF and DNR OFF and use 'cool' picture setting. Mind you, go up to close to ANY tv screen using either system and you will see all kinds of horrors. Sitting at the right distance for the size of the screen is the answer.
     
  12. phunt

    phunt
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    Well i nipped into comet today to buy a better scart lead for sky and got a monster video 3 lead.While i was there i noticed there sagem was showing a sky feed instead of the usual HD demo so i stayed a while and had a look.The PQ was truly awful but thats to be expected from comets crap multi feeds but what i did notice was the same thing i see on my TV (blurry vision on close up panning) only it was twice as bad as it is on my own TV,so that kinda made me feel better.Anyway i got home and plugged the new scart in and although the PQ did look clearer and a bit sharper the blurry thing was still evident so im resigning myself to the fact that its just a charachteristic of the DLP range (oh i also noticed it on the plasmas in comet).Spose i should just be greatful that dvd is no where near as bad as sky and my sammy 945 should be even better still when that comes next week and that im all ready for SKY HD and then all my problems will be solved :)
     
  13. -TYN-

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    Dlp technology produces no image lag due to very fast pixel response time, i still concur it exists on the 6 segment wheel sets. I had the 50 inch samsung with the 7 segment wheel which did not have this problem at all.
     
  14. phunt

    phunt
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    So i take it the Sagem has a 6 segmant wheel then because it was very evident on there?
     
  15. Demon

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    The first thing you need to do is ascertain if the artefacts are caused by the source material, the sets processing, or the DLP technology
    1. Switch off DNR completely.. this causes allsorts of artefacts to occur, since in doing Noise reduction, you inevitably will get some side effects.. If it is the DNR, then experiment with just setting it to 1 or 2, no higher.. see if you can live with it. On my 51wh36, you can set different DNR settings for DVD and SKY, and I only use a DNR of 1 for sky, any more and it looks smoother, but with more artefacts..
    2. Try some more realistic display settings, Use a THX optimiser on some DVD's is a start, normally, contrast will be reasonably high, brightness quite low, and colour around the middle.. Once adjusted, it may take some time to get used to the picture, but its worth it, and after a while you think using the factory settings is like viewing it through a pair of white net curtains, such is the drop in clarity.
    3. Try a high quality DVD.. you would be surprised how bad some DVD's are in the PQ department.. and unfortunately the artefacts you see are often lack of detail and graduation of colour/brightness.... As a note, using Spiderman on a CRT RPTV (51WH36 Toshiba, one of the more revealing RPTV's out there), you see alsorts of artefacts.. including graduation of brightness in dark scenes.. so perhaps not the best choice..

    Do remember that SKY+ is usually low quality, my 51wh36 took a few weeks to get used to seeing all the compression artefacts, and suddenly all my poor quality DVD's stuck out like a sore thumb..

    6 colours is more then enough with the image processing Toshiba use, I've seen plenty of DLP front projectors to know that with 6 or 7 colours, visible banding/graduation of colours is usually always the poor source material...

    Well, of course it may well be the fact its 'only' 6 colours, but they do some pretty good image processing to ensure banding/graduation is reduced to negligible, or so I am reliably informed..

    *edit* - I've seen the pedastal 50" Sammy, which I originally thought was excellent with poor quality feeds, but in my local curry's there is one next to the same RPTV I have, the 51wh36, and now I think samsung are having a giraffe, the amount of detail that is lost due to smoothing is ludicrous... I suppose in isolation, it may look OK, but comparing with a dated CRT RPTV I wasn't impressed at all.. However, with DVD sources, things are much better, but I would expect that.. I would love to see the 46wm48 and Sammy next to each other with some good quality sources to see if the Sammy is indeed better, or if it obliterates the detail too much..
     
  16. -TYN-

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    Yes the sagem has a 6 segment wheel also, and having six segments also causes noise aswell as banding.

    Also it definatley is not to do with source material as it happens with pc games on vga and on every other source tried. Just seems to be less noticable on better sources as the edges are cleaner everything blurs a little less.

    In response to your comments about the samsung, when i wrote my comments about this set in a different thread i did say that all the connections displayed a washed out picture (even the component with progressive) but all the digital connections display an amazing picture which i believe is quite abit better than the tosh, although it does still suffer from the rainbow effect.
     
  17. Carl_Docklands

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    Lee: after changing my settings quite a bit i have my colour temperature setting at "COLD" as i find normal a little too In-yer-face.
     
  18. lee31

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    Now this is really odd, for those who have been reading my posts, I claim that the connections on the back of the Tosh are a load of Tosh lol, to add more cement to my statement, I finally convinced the wife to let me move the TV to a better loaction in the lounge, meaning a complete revamp. Once done, Ive reconnected everything ththe TV & gotta say with 100% conviction, everything has got better ! it really has, I havent changed any of my interconnects, just unplugged, moved & plugged back in ~ very strange
     
  19. phunt

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    Im starting to worry that theres actually something wrong with my set.i set my settings exactly the same as lee's and casualty tonight was barely watchable because the blur thing was happening all the time,yet lee doesnt even see it.And this is through a brand new sky+ box using a brand new £60 monster video 3 scart lead in ext1.I really cant understand it.I recorded casualty and went to a really bad bit and messed with every setting the tv has taking each one to its min and max and not one of them had any effect on the blur.at least i have proof if i have to call mr toshiba out.Anyone know the returns policy of empiredirect? or will i just have to go through toshiba?
    One thing has me thinking though,as it says in my first post,i dont remeber seing this in the first few days of owning the tv.it seemed to start after i had tried my pc in the vga socket and when i looked at trouble shooting it says if you have blurry images or vertical banding (which i aslo have very slightly) that you need to change the sampling clock and the clock phase in the PC setting,I have of corse tried this but to no avail,Just seemed a bit of a coincidence to me. :suicide:
     
  20. lee31

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    sounds like a dodgy set mate, if the TV is less than 28 days old you WILL get a replacement - its the law. DO NOT let the TV be taken from your house to be repaired although empire will send an engineer to your house to verify the fault b4 they agree the exchange. If TV is over 28 days old, it will be repaired

    Hope this helps

    Lee
     
  21. Carl_Docklands

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    Phunt, I would go for a replacement mate as my set`s PQ is the mutts nutts.
     
  22. delyan

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    I hope I am on the same track here. I bought my 46HM84 2 months ago. The picture is clear especially with HD sources. I noticed that the quality of the picture depends on the source, not the TV itself. Also, the manual in US says that the TV is not supposed to be used as a PC monitor!!!
     
  23. as

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    what is the stand size for the toshiba 46
     
  24. welsh113

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    Hi I have been quite on here lately but still reading up....on this problem i dont know what to say as i have mine hooked up and i have no such problems on anything other then sky and it is caused by a poor bit rate!!! notice the worst being itv!! Anyways TYN does not have a clue what he is talking about (just talking rubbish) six colour wheel wouldn't cause this affect at all....anyways bare in mind everyone that when you watch a movie in 1080 it has been converted as the source is not 1080 so it all depends on how good the conversion was cared out so all these films on the net that claim to be 1080 content are actaully not true 1080 content!!!! I just wish people like TYN would do some research into things before he starts misinforming people on false facts!!
     
  25. -TYN-

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    Thats abit harsh mate, afterall a forum is about opinions. My opinion may be well off but i have seen this effect on both the sagem and the tosh and just thought it may well be a side effect of using the 6 segment wheel. I personally hope it is a fault with certain tosh's, as if i knew it was a fault i would go out and buy another. I do know that it has nothing to do with source material though as im sure everybody that has the fault would vouch for, as i tried many different sources including video/pc games.

    Thx and sorry if i mislead anyone :)
     
  26. lee31

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    I can tell you again & again, after really waggling my interconnects into the TV I get a PERFECT 10/10 100% picture on ALL sources inc ITV (I get Meridean)

    Only thing I will say, if there are words on the screen with fast moving background, the spaces between the words may be slightly fuzzy but I wouldnt donwgrade my rating due to that as if the words are on screen, you arnt really meant to see whats going on !

    Oh & Carl, changed my settings to COOL, gotta agree, it is better, thanks :0)

    Lee
     
  27. phunt

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    Well im sat here on the living room floor typing this message through my pc connected to the Tosh by VGA and my res is 1024x768.I just tried Gladiator dvd and get exactly the same blur as i do through the xbox and tosh dvd player.Its even evident on the WMV-HD terminator 2 720 demo through windows media player 10.
     
  28. welsh113

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    sorry to sound so hard and after rereading my post it seems i was a little too harsh!!!! Its just this is all down to the fact that both sky and even dvd players for that matter are no match for these modern displays. People expect the world form there brand new telly and are let down by it when it comes if they do not realize that sky and even dvd players are no true match for it!!! It will be 2 years at least before we are seeing the full potential so my advice them not in the market for a new telly WAIT if your in the market now buy at least a 720p display....
     
  29. maidstoneman30s

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    Hello all,
    As i am sure some of you have already seen in my starter thread of adding pics, I have NOW GOT MY OWN 46"er, waahhheeyyy. Thank god for this forum, as the ''out of focus/blur/smudge/etc/etc" what ever one might call it, became apparent on the virgin run tonight. my mrs wasnt perturbed by it, howevre, i was. Darn thing,lol. Well after having seen it for a few hours, and imho, it depends very much on what material is being sent down by SKY.
    I watched SKY sports news, and the guys reporting live, looked more like max headroom, than alive and living, whereas the pre recorded interviews of sportsmen, where crystal. We then watched various channels, sometimes noticeing the fuzz before/after a panning.
    Then watched another channel and it was cryatal again.

    Only tried the Gladiator test at 3:16 , and oh crikey it WASSSS bad. Tried NEMO , and it was perfect. SSSOOOOO, still with a sense of humour and a little nervous anxiety, I hope i aint got a DUFFER here and either play around with the settings to get rid of the fuzz or ?? shoot it!

    maidstoneman30s
     
  30. -TYN-

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    Yes welsh i do agree it is easy to expect to much, but this problem is not a little
    nit picking thing as i am sure Phunt can vouch for, it is actually a major problem. This is why i am actually feeling a little better as it must actually be a damaged batch or something as the majority of you seem very happy. Would be grateful if Phunt could let us all know if he exchanges his tv if the problem is solved. Then i could go and buy another one myself :)

    And dont worry Welsh no offence taken i honestly did not mean to sound like a "know it all" because i get fed-up with them people too. :laugh:
     

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