Question Need help deciding on a projector, specifically looking for amazing 3D + 4k

Jb1123

Novice Member
Hello and thank you for reading my post. I am in the market for a project, it will be my first one and I need to hear from experienced owners that can help point me in the right direction. Please see below -

Budget: Approx $2k, it's not set so I can go up if need be.
Distance from wall to sofa: 12ft
Desired screen size: 140" maybe?
Screen type: I have no idea, there are so many. Recommendations?
Priority 1: 3D, Im very big on 3D and I'm tired of going to the movies to see IMAX 3D, I want that experience in my home. This is probably my biggest priority, a fantastic 3D image.
Priority 2: Deep blacks and vibrant colors.
Priority 3: Sharp 4k image for UHD bluray.


I've been reading reviews and watching video reviews on Epson and Sony projectors but most of them dont really highlight the 3D capabilities. If someone can help recommend a specific model and provide any feedback as well as a screen recommendation, I would really appreciate it. There is a lot of money and planning involved so since I cannot really see them in person before the purchase, I would like to hear some recommendations based on my needs.

Thank you very much for your time.
 

IWC Dopplel

Well-known Member
I done think your needs and budget match, perhaps a season ticket for the IMAX ?

3D is in decline by the way
 

kenshingintoki

Well-known Member
I done think your needs and budget match, perhaps a season ticket for the IMAX ?

3D is in decline by the way
The epson 9400 if he could have extended a little would have fulfilled most of the criteria.
 

calibos

Active Member
I'm only half joking....and keeping in mind I have other threads on the Go researching for a new Epson PJ's and Floor Raising Tab Tensioned screens for family communal TV/Sports/Movie watching so I'm not against projectors, but..........If I'm watching on my own its Virtual Cinemas in my 4K VR Headset all day long for Movie watching for me. With KODI as my UI and player on my PC, real 5.1 Audio routed to my real 5.1 system, the Headset gives me 1080p image quality........and my own personal recreation of what till 2016 was the largest iMAX in the world at Darling Harbour Sydney Australia with its 500+ seats and 100ft (30m) wide screen. Its like I'm Amazons Jeff Bezo's who bought out every seat in the house so I could watch the movie in private. Just finished a full 23 movie 3D Marvel Cinematic Universe Marathon .....and it was EPIC!!

 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
for the budget you have put up you can not get a 4K projector, and nothing that is amazing at any parameters, you can get a Epson 1080P with eshift low contrast and washed out colors, only real option i see to meet your demand would be the JVC N series, the Sony 270/570 dont have near light enought for 3D on a 140" screen, and the JVC ones will likely be best around 100" for 3D. So you have 2 choises, raise your budget or lower your expectations.
 

kenshingintoki

Well-known Member
I'm only half joking....and keeping in mind I have other threads on the Go researching for a new Epson PJ's and Floor Raising Tab Tensioned screens for family communal TV/Sports/Movie watching so I'm not against projectors, but..........If I'm watching on my own its Virtual Cinemas in my 4K VR Headset all day long for Movie watching for me. With KODI as my UI and player on my PC, real 5.1 Audio routed to my real 5.1 system, the Headset gives me 1080p image quality........and my own personal recreation of what till 2016 was the largest iMAX in the world at Darling Harbour Sydney Australia with its 500+ seats and 100ft (30m) wide screen. Its like I'm Amazons Jeff Bezo's who bought out every seat in the house so I could watch the movie in private. Just finished a full 23 movie 3D Marvel Cinematic Universe Marathon .....and it was EPIC!!


which VR headset?
I've used a Valve Index for this and its okay but no, its not just not the same thing IMO.

The FOV is very very limiting, the screen door effect is visible still if you look for it, its not OLED level colours which sucks (altho then again neither is a PJ) and the 3d effects feel... not right.

Maybe I should test it some more. It doesn't help that i cant find a player to play 3d blu rays so im stuck having rip my own or download crap half SBS rips with low bit rates.
 

calibos

Active Member
HP Reverb 2160x2160 pixels per eye. Not perfect by any means. Reverb G2 this Autumn gets the Index Lenses, Physical IPD Adjustent, Reduced Chromatic Abberation. Same Reverb FOV though. Even so, IMHO even the Reverb G1 reaches an image quality and resolution threshold for me that no HMD before it had where I can watch a Movie, Doc or TV Show and not think about Res or SDE or Blacks or artifacts. A lot of it is subjective though. I have a lower quality threshold than you obviously. I personally have no complaints about the colours of the LCD's used in the Reverb and likely Index and the same goes for blacks. I only see the 'LCD Grey' when the screen and environment are almost totally dark like end credits. The rest of the time with the environment lit up by the faux reflections from the virtual screen and with something bright somewhere on the virtual screen, the Relative Contrast ratio effect is very strong for me where the blacks look very black as long as there is something bright on screen for the eye/brain combo to work its relative contrast ratio trickery.

Obviously I can't wait till we have smaller lighter form factor, wider FOV, Wireless, 4000x4000 pixel per eye OLED grade colours and blacks, but like I said I feel the Reverb G1 has reached a threshold where VR Cinema enthusiasts can start to ignore the remaining image quality issues and compromises. I'm keeping an eye on the soon to be launched Pico Neo 2 4K Standalone/Wireless HMD. That allows SteamVR Wireless Streaming so I could do what I did with my Oculus GO last year which is stream the High Poly VR Cinema environments of Virtual Desktop HighMax and Bigscreen to the WIreless HMD except with the Pico Neo 2 it'd be Reverb level SDE/Res instead of GO's sub 720p level visuals.

Ultimately though, I feel it boils down to this. You are either the kind of person where the experience of watching a movie in a 500 seater iMax Cinema with 100 foot wide screen in the comfort of your own home more than makes up for some image quality resolution compromises with current gen VR Headsets or you are the type of person who prefers to watch a pristine image on their 55" OLED from 12ft away but which is 2000% smaller than the Virtual Cinema Screen. I'm the former, you may well be the latter. I can put up with the compromises for now. You don't seem to be able to. Neither of us will have to within the next 5 years!!

Point is, if OP has a PC with a GTX970 GPU or above and can compromise on Blacks and 4K res he can have a True iMAX 3D experience with 1080p/no SDE level visuals in the Autumn for about £700 in the form of a Reverb G2. Worth it IMHO for Virtual Cinema usage alone nevermind actual VR Games.

Then again, if he's the type of person who even hates wearing 3D glasses to wacth 3D movies then wearing a VR Headset will be a step to far and there is no saving him from a 10 thousand pound spend on 4K projectors and fancy screens! LOL.
 

kenshingintoki

Well-known Member
HP Reverb 2160x2160 pixels per eye. Not perfect by any means. Reverb G2 this Autumn gets the Index Lenses, Physical IPD Adjustent, Reduced Chromatic Abberation. Same Reverb FOV though. Even so, IMHO even the Reverb G1 reaches an image quality and resolution threshold for me that no HMD before it had where I can watch a Movie, Doc or TV Show and not think about Res or SDE or Blacks or artifacts. A lot of it is subjective though. I have a lower quality threshold than you obviously. I personally have no complaints about the colours of the LCD's used in the Reverb and likely Index and the same goes for blacks. I only see the 'LCD Grey' when the screen and environment are almost totally dark like end credits. The rest of the time with the environment lit up by the faux reflections from the virtual screen and with something bright somewhere on the virtual screen, the Relative Contrast ratio effect is very strong for me where the blacks look very black as long as there is something bright on screen for the eye/brain combo to work its relative contrast ratio trickery.

Obviously I can't wait till we have smaller lighter form factor, wider FOV, Wireless, 4000x4000 pixel per eye OLED grade colours and blacks, but like I said I feel the Reverb G1 has reached a threshold where VR Cinema enthusiasts can start to ignore the remaining image quality issues and compromises. I'm keeping an eye on the soon to be launched Pico Neo 2 4K Standalone/Wireless HMD. That allows SteamVR Wireless Streaming so I could do what I did with my Oculus GO last year which is stream the High Poly VR Cinema environments of Virtual Desktop HighMax and Bigscreen to the WIreless HMD except with the Pico Neo 2 it'd be Reverb level SDE/Res instead of GO's sub 720p level visuals.

Ultimately though, I feel it boils down to this. You are either the kind of person where the experience of watching a movie in a 500 seater iMax Cinema with 100 foot wide screen in the comfort of your own home more than makes up for some image quality resolution compromises with current gen VR Headsets or you are the type of person who prefers to watch a pristine image on their 55" OLED from 12ft away but which is 2000% smaller than the Virtual Cinema Screen. I'm the former, you may well be the latter. I can put up with the compromises for now. You don't seem to be able to. Neither of us will have to within the next 5 years!!

Point is, if OP has a PC with a GTX970 GPU or above and can compromise on Blacks and 4K res he can have a True iMAX 3D experience with 1080p/no SDE level visuals in the Autumn for about £700 in the form of a Reverb G2. Worth it IMHO for Virtual Cinema usage alone nevermind actual VR Games.

Then again, if he's the type of person who even hates wearing 3D glasses to wacth 3D movies then wearing a VR Headset will be a step to far and there is no saving him from a 10 thousand pound spend on 4K projectors and fancy screens! LOL.

I have written an essay on AVSforums but in short, 3D films on a VR headset is not as good as a projector or OLED.
 

kenshingintoki

Well-known Member
HP Reverb 2160x2160 pixels per eye. Not perfect by any means. Reverb G2 this Autumn gets the Index Lenses, Physical IPD Adjustent, Reduced Chromatic Abberation. Same Reverb FOV though. Even so, IMHO even the Reverb G1 reaches an image quality and resolution threshold for me that no HMD before it had where I can watch a Movie, Doc or TV Show and not think about Res or SDE or Blacks or artifacts. A lot of it is subjective though. I have a lower quality threshold than you obviously. I personally have no complaints about the colours of the LCD's used in the Reverb and likely Index and the same goes for blacks. I only see the 'LCD Grey' when the screen and environment are almost totally dark like end credits. The rest of the time with the environment lit up by the faux reflections from the virtual screen and with something bright somewhere on the virtual screen, the Relative Contrast ratio effect is very strong for me where the blacks look very black as long as there is something bright on screen for the eye/brain combo to work its relative contrast ratio trickery.

Obviously I can't wait till we have smaller lighter form factor, wider FOV, Wireless, 4000x4000 pixel per eye OLED grade colours and blacks, but like I said I feel the Reverb G1 has reached a threshold where VR Cinema enthusiasts can start to ignore the remaining image quality issues and compromises. I'm keeping an eye on the soon to be launched Pico Neo 2 4K Standalone/Wireless HMD. That allows SteamVR Wireless Streaming so I could do what I did with my Oculus GO last year which is stream the High Poly VR Cinema environments of Virtual Desktop HighMax and Bigscreen to the WIreless HMD except with the Pico Neo 2 it'd be Reverb level SDE/Res instead of GO's sub 720p level visuals.

Ultimately though, I feel it boils down to this. You are either the kind of person where the experience of watching a movie in a 500 seater iMax Cinema with 100 foot wide screen in the comfort of your own home more than makes up for some image quality resolution compromises with current gen VR Headsets or you are the type of person who prefers to watch a pristine image on their 55" OLED from 12ft away but which is 2000% smaller than the Virtual Cinema Screen. I'm the former, you may well be the latter. I can put up with the compromises for now. You don't seem to be able to. Neither of us will have to within the next 5 years!!

Point is, if OP has a PC with a GTX970 GPU or above and can compromise on Blacks and 4K res he can have a True iMAX 3D experience with 1080p/no SDE level visuals in the Autumn for about £700 in the form of a Reverb G2. Worth it IMHO for Virtual Cinema usage alone nevermind actual VR Games.

Then again, if he's the type of person who even hates wearing 3D glasses to wacth 3D movies then wearing a VR Headset will be a step to far and there is no saving him from a 10 thousand pound spend on 4K projectors and fancy screens! LOL.


Because the FOV is crap, the audio sucks, the resolution is terrible, and you are wearing a headset on your head.


I don't get people who say 3D Blurays in VR is amazing. Its not. Its the worst form of watching 3D films. 3DLCD, Projector and OLED are all better ways to experience it.


VR is great because its an active form of entertainment where you close yourself off from the open world and wear and uncomfortably heavy headset the promise of ACTIVE entertainment and enjoyment. The sacrifice is worth the advantages.

However using a VR headset for a passive means of entertainment is not a very good trade off for most people. The benefit of a few extra things popping out into your face or around is not worth the negatives of:
1. Wearing a heavy headset
2. The unsocial nature of now watching films with the headset
3. Being closed off from the world
4. The resolution being terrible
5. The colours and brightness not being as good as your TV
6. Audio compromise (unless the audio is being fed through to your speakers).
etc.
7. The scale is slightly off , its not perfect becaause the display isn't real
8. the FOV is very boxy both vertical and horizontal (even on valve index)
9. screen door effect

There is also a sense of awe when something projects into YOUR room. This doesn't happen with a VR headset.

There is a place for VR and 3D films potentially.. a niche one.. but with the current crop of headsets, its very much so a big compromise. FYI I have a PSVR, Valve Index, Oculus Quest and Rift S, and have tried 3D films on all of them. Its fun, but its no where near projection or TVs as an experience.


VR has a lot of AMAZING moments and wanders. RE7VR, Superhot, Astrobot, Half Life alyx, Asgard's Wrath.. I can comfortably say watching a 3D Film in VR is one of the most underwhelming. Making huge compromises for an active form of entertainment, just to play a gimped form of passive entertainment will not make sense for most people.

Remember there is no doubt 3D partly failed because people couldn't be bothered to draw the curtains, put 3D glasses on and press the sync button. Putting on a WIRED VR headset and shut yourself from the outside world in a boxy claustrophobic field of view

If we can get a wireless, OLED, HIGH FOV, HIGH RESOLUTION, VR headset which is light, then maybe we can start talking about it being a the 3D blu-ray saviour. and the sad thing is it will come.. but will it come in time for 3D blurays to still being made?.... no.
 

kenshingintoki

Well-known Member
"Ultimately though, I feel it boils down to this. You are either the kind of person where the experience of watching a movie in a 500 seater iMax Cinema with 100 foot wide screen in the comfort of your own home more than makes up for some image quality resolution compromises with current gen VR Headsets or you are the type of person who prefers to watch a pristine image on their 55" OLED from 12ft away but which is 2000% smaller than the Virtual Cinema Screen. I'm the former, you may well be the latter. I can put up with the compromises for now. You don't seem to be able to. Neither of us will have to within the next 5 years!!"
No no no and no.

A VR headset, especially with the reverb FOV, does not give you a 100 foot wide screen in the comfort of your own home. It gives you a ski goggle-like point of view into an artificial IMAX theatre.

If you want the IMAX cinema experience, get a Projector.

I like how you've sold this, and if I hadn't got experience and owned a Quest, PSVR, CV1, Rift S and Valve Index, I might have bitten the bullet on this. everyone who seems to hype up 3D films in VR hasn't experienced projected 3D...

However I can say from personal experience, Projected 3D films >>>>> are much better than VR headset 3D films and I am a HUUUUUUUUGE VR fan.
 

calibos

Active Member
I have an Epson 5210 and 4 pairs of Epson Active Shutter Glasses and am about to pull the trigger on an Epson TW7000 and 110" Floor Raising ALR Screen. I know what 3D on a Projector looks like, I enjoy 3D on a Projector.

I said I was half joking suggesting VR as an option for the iMAX experience in my opening post. I admitted all the downsides of Virtual Cinema with current Gen hardware.

You seem to be mostly agreeing with me so I dont know what you seem to be arguing about. The only place I see we differ is that You can't seem to admit that some people have a lower PQ/Res/SDE/FOV threshold for an enjoyable experience than yourself. Fair enough, Current Gen VR is not there yet as far as you are concerned. It is for me. Whats the "No No No NO NO!" problem?
 

iamsludge

Active Member
Well my old JVC X3 is great for 3D, newer models would be even better. I watch a 134” image. If you have decent light control in your room it’s amazing what you can achieve. Newer JVC are 4k too, but you’ll need to go second hand older machine for around £2k. Epson is a lesser option but nearer budget.
 

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