need help, all 7 speakers in ceiling + subwoofer

MasonSafari

Novice Member
Hi All

we have a downstairs unit we used to rent out but not anymore ... so I am converting it to a home theatre ...
as the room is small and also have my wife on me, I cant use any normal speakers so I have been advised by the Home theatre specialist we can put all 7 speakers in ceiling + a wireless subwoofer so I can even get the Dolby Atmos ...

as the room ceiling is shallow , need to use the shallow dept speakers which I have been offered to chose between Triad IC33SD or Klipssch SLM -3400C ,

he suggested to install 3 on front of the screen ( on roof) and 2 exactly above our seating ( unfortunately there is no space behind the seating as I needed to use all the space ) and also another 2 just in front of the previous 2 ( 1 meter a part) ... also the screen size is 100" and seating 3.5m away from seating so the first 3 speakers are also around 3 meter from us ...please see the picture ...

my question is :
- is it any good layout ,
- can I get dolby atmos from it or at easy surround ?
- the 2 row of speakers, arent they very close to each other
- it is not easy but maybe possible to have the 2 in wall at left and right where we seat or even eliminate the 2 and have only row of 3 in front and row of 2 above our seating/

i need to finalise with the installer so I really appreciate if you advise

1592550494338.png


Thanks
Mason
 

Dolus

Active Member
I have been advised by the Home theatre specialist we can put all 7 speakers in ceiling + a wireless subwoofer so I can even get the Dolby Atmos ...

I would seriously consider giving him the sack. What would be the point of Atmos if all the audio is already overhead? You will not even get proper surround

Why 'convert to home theatre' then having the restriction of not using proper speakers. It is like converting an outhouse to a laundry and then not being able to put a washing machine in. :)
 
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januilo

Standard Member
Interesting project, it would be better if you could improve the space and make it more sound-proof. I think with that size, 4 speakers would be fine. Goodluck!
 

gibbsy

Moderator
the Home theatre specialist
Yep and my day job is an astronaut. More chance of me making it to the moon that your expert giving you a great sounding home theatre. Never, ever put anything other than the Atmos domain in the ceiling. Sack him.
 

BriD

Well-known Member
You absolutely can't have all the speakers in the roof AND get Atmos.

You could potentially put rear surrounds in the roof, and if you get motorised pop out ones they can work ok at the front, but Atmos won't work for you as you won't be able to tell them apart.

Go for some slim on walls?
 

MasonSafari

Novice Member
Hi all, really appreciate your inputs…

Let me explain a little more : I hope this answers
your questions

  • One promise I made to my wife is that nothing will be exposed so we can use the area as it is when we are not using it as home theatre , so nothing should be exposed…so I am using the motorised pull down 100” screen in front of the kitchen ( I wanted to get rid of the kitchen but then who knows what might happen in future and we already spend more than $10k on it ) also no wires exposed also no speaker exposed so I need to chose between no sound at all or only in ceiling speakers and maybe one in wall speaker at right on the seating and 1 in the left of the seating ( below picture) , also I cant use the soundbar as it will be again exposed and also I don’t have any location for it .
  • Also as I have a 4 year old one, and I will be watching moves when he is asleep, I wont be able to use the room sound anyway and I will be using my Sennheiser RS 185 RF Wireless but at the same time we might have friends and watch movies together so I should have audio with visual
  • Maybe the picture was bad , the room is not that bad , please see more picture
  • The thing is not only this home theatre seller but few other in Sydney advised that all in ceiling speakers are very common … but when I search through forums and web it is not
  • So I will need to chose what I want to do with Audio , I might have below options
  • Put all 7 speakers as installer advised ( 3 near screen) and 2 right above where we seat and the other 2 1 meter in front of it
  • Use only 5 , so 3 near screen and only 2 above our seating
  • Use 5 in ceiling , so 3 near screen and only 2 above our seating and 2 inwall at right and left where we seat ( something like Klipsch R-Series R-5650-W)
  • Forget about Audio then also forget about the receiver and just get the projector HDM to Apple TV and also from Apple TV to my Sennheiser RS 185 RF. But f I do I wont be able to do any changes in future as I need to finish this project at once and for good
  • Also please note as the ceiling has low cavity ( most likely the wall as well, so I will need to use low profile ( shallow dept) incelling /wall speakers…which been recommended TRIAD TSIC33 SD or Klipsch SLM-3400-C
  • Also I use EPSON 9400W , also wants to use Denon AVR-X2600H as receiver , and I will place it where the Microwave at the moment in the pictures
  • I want to use Klipsch R-12swi Wireless Subwoofer
  • I will be using PLEX Mainly for my 1080 and 4k movie files through my office , computer and 2 NAS
  • Ceiling is low , only 2.15m height
  • Bedroom is not an option , also it is very smaller than this area


I am open to any suggestion within the limits I have

Thanks again
n0.jpg
n1.jpg
n2.jpg
n3.jpg
 

gibbsy

Moderator
It's a very difficult room and not ideal for what you want. A lot of highly reflective surfaces that's to cause problems. With all your speakers firing downwards the work tops and hard floor is going to be reflecting the audio back up.

Perhaps we've all been a bit harsh on your expert as many would have run a mile when they saw the room. The least worse scenario is perhaps to have all ceiling speakers although Atmos would be a total waste of time and stick with a simple 5.1 given the Denon you have chosen.
 

Dolus

Active Member
What threw me was your opening statement that you were 'converting it to a 'home cinema',

Given the compromises you are having to make, an option could be a higher end soundbar with or without Atmos, might save some money too.

Soundbar reviews
Not a recommendation, just a list I found of the type of thing that is available and the prices ( UK).
 
Last edited:

MasonSafari

Novice Member
It's a very difficult room and not ideal for what you want. A lot of highly reflective surfaces that's to cause problems. With all your speakers firing downwards the work tops and hard floor is going to be reflecting the audio back up.

Perhaps we've all been a bit harsh on your expert as many would have run a mile when they saw the room. The least worse scenario is perhaps to have all ceiling speakers although Atmos would be a total waste of time and stick with a simple 5.1 given the Denon you have chosen.
Thankls Gibbsy
appreciate your reply ...
so you think have 2 speakers in the level of my ear ( seating) and have the rest ( either 3 or 5) in ceiling is not gonna work ( my option C) ? and if I chose to do it the best option would be using 5 in ceiling with a subwoofer , I think using 7 is too many specially when I have to place the 2 row of 2 just 1 meter away from each other... maybe I'd better give up and then just use my headphone :(
 

MasonSafari

Novice Member
What threw me was your opening statement that you were 'converting it to a 'home cinema',

Given the compromiseS you are having to make, an option could be a higher end soundbar with or without Atmos, might save some money too.

Soundbar reviews
Not a recommendation, just a list I found of the type of thing that is available and the prices ( UK).
Thanks Dolus
I know it is not standard for a home theatre but its the only space I can use and I wan to have bigger screen that my TV... problem with sound bar is , i dont have a location to put it either as what I explained and also the photos, unless you think there is an option?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
It's so difficult because there is no place to place fixed speakers at a seated head height as they will be right on front of the units. Even on a mobile basis it would be a hell of a hassle to bring in speakers and then take them all away. There is no place on the wall behind the screen for in wall speakers and then you have the problem of the cooker and splashing water, so from a safety point again the ceiling is the best option.

I would keep all speakers in the ceiling with a maximum of five at least that would have all the audio coming from the same plain.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
I also thought about a soundbar but dismissed it as it would involved the same amount of faffing around as bringing speakers in. Had you been able to fix the soundbar in place that would have been your best option.

You could of course live off takeaways and have your drinks in disposable cups with disposable cutlery so no cooking or washing up and have speakers on the work surface.;)

As a retired firefighter please make sure that if you through with it that you make sure your cooker is turned off as with the screen down you'd never get behind it if it did go up.
 

MasonSafari

Novice Member
Thanks gibbsy
unfortunately the sound bar is no possible... for the 5 in ceiling do you think the 3 should be neat the screen and the other 2 above our seating? also as I have to use the low profile inceiling , which of the below you think is better TRIAD TSIC33 SD or Klipsch SLM-3400-C ? also I wan to use Klipsch R-12swi Wireless Subwoofer with Denon AVR-X2600H ...I appreciate your thoughts about them.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Thanks gibbsy
unfortunately the sound bar is no possible... for the 5 in ceiling do you think the 3 should be neat the screen and the other 2 above our seating? also as I have to use the low profile inceiling , which of the below you think is better TRIAD TSIC33 SD or Klipsch SLM-3400-C ? also I wan to use Klipsch R-12swi Wireless Subwoofer with Denon AVR-X2600H ...I appreciate your thoughts about them.
I know absolutely nothing about ceiling speakers. I have Atmos but use upfiring KEF R50s.
 

MasonSafari

Novice Member
It's so difficult because there is no place to place fixed speakers at a seated head height as they will be right on front of the units. Even on a mobile basis it would be a hell of a hassle to bring in speakers and then take them all away. There is no place on the wall behind the screen for in wall speakers and then you have the problem of the cooker and splashing water, so from a safety point again the ceiling is the best option.

I would keep all speakers in the ceiling with a maximum of five at least that would have all the audio coming from the same plain.
Hi gibsy
sorry to ask this again, but I should be able to place 1 in wall speaker at the ear level on the right wall and the other one at the left wall of the seating...please see below,
22.jpg

although I ma not sure if it makes things even worst when the centre and right and left speakers on roof and the other right and left at ear level...as I think the main sound would come from the centre and right and left in ceiling and when there i sound to the sight and left in wall speakers they might be louder than they should be and overcome the centre right and left sounds from ceiling? the left and right on the wall would be 1.5 m from the middle seating but the centre right and left in ceiling would be 3 meter away from the seating ( unless I pt the 3 ( centre , right and left above our seating - 1 meter away ) ?? as below ?

33.jpg
 

gibbsy

Moderator
The Audyssey EQ would take the different levels of speakers into consideration during the calibration. Hopefully your installer would do the calibration for you.
 

MasonSafari

Novice Member
The Audyssey EQ would take the different levels of speakers into consideration during the calibration. Hopefully your installer would do the calibration for you.
Thanks I will ask
But need to tell him which arrangement I want, all 5 on ceiling or as my previous reply, 2. In walls for my right and left and if yes, the 3 in ceiling should be near screen or near to the seating ?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Thanks I will ask
But need to tell him which arrangement I want, all 5 on ceiling or as my previous reply, 2. In walls for my right and left and if yes, the 3 in ceiling should be near screen or near to the seating ?
I would be guided by your installer on that as it depends on the speaker type he decides to use whether or not it will have adjustable directional tweeters. You don't want to get the speakers too close to the beam and that beam may be an influence on the positioning of the surrounds as well. I know we've all been hard on your installer initially but I'd go with his preference now.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I see this being a disaster. The room conditions are bad for a projector and your also compromising heavily on audio quality by having to make huge compromises on speaker placement.

I'd just get a 75inch+ TV where your current TV is and two tidy bookshelves.

Projectors are magical but need to be in dedicated rooms.

Home theatre hybrid rooms are very rarely very impressive and I fear you will be spending a lot of money and not getting what value for the end result.
 

MasonSafari

Novice Member
I would be guided by your installer on that as it depends on the speaker type he decides to use whether or not it will have adjustable directional tweeters. You don't want to get the speakers too close to the beam and that beam may be an influence on the positioning of the surrounds as well. I know we've all been hard on your installer initially but I'd go with his preference now.
The truth is I don’t trust him anymore, as it seems they are offering all inceling speakers in almost all of their projects...and he insists we will get Dolby Atmos wit it, funny thing is I got this same idea from 2 other home theatre guys as it seems it’s very common in Sydney but I was not sold even with my no or limited idea about Dolby Atmos ... I think i need to decide myself ... also all Triad inceiling and in walls have adjustable tweeters ... so I need to decide which option :

A) all 7 in ceiling as I was told by installer , so 3 in a row in front of the screen, 2 in a row above our head and 2 in a row just a meter in front of the first 2

B) all 5 in ceiling so 3 in front of the screen and 2 above sating

C) 5 in ceiling so 3 in front of the screen and 2 above sating and 2 in walls at our seating ear levels at right and left

D) Only 3 in front of the screen and 2 in walls at our seating ear levels at right and left

E) Only 3 just above the seating and 2 in walls at our seating ear levels at right and left

I thinks A and C are pointless as I can’t get Dolby Atmos anyway and should focus on 5+1 Surround so which one B, D or E?
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
The truth is I don’t trust him anymore, as it seems they are offering all inceling speakers in almost all of their projects...and he insists we will get Dolby Atmos wit it, funny thing is I got this same idea from 2 other home theatre guys as it seems it’s very common in Sydney but I was not sold even with my no or limited idea about Dolby Atmos ... I think i need to decide myself ... also all Triad inceiling and in walls have adjustable tweeters ... so I need to decide which option :

A) all 7 in ceiling as I was told by installer , so 3 in a row in front of the screen, 2 in a row above our head and 2 in a row just a meter in front of the first 2

B) all 5 in ceiling so 3 in front of the screen and 2 above sating

C) 5 in ceiling so 3 in front of the screen and 2 above sating and 2 in walls at our seating ear levels at right and left

D) Only 3 in front of the screen and 2 in walls at our seating ear levels at right and left

E) Only 3 just above the seating and 2 in walls at our seating ear levels at right and left

I thinks A and C are pointless as I can’t get Dolby Atmos anyway and should focus on 5+1 Surround so which one B, D or E?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Forget Atmos, it's simply not going to work. If you go for seven in the ceiling then run it as a 7.1, at least that will take the audio beyond your seating position and give depth on a horizontal scale. 7.1 would make more sense than 5.1.2 where you will have all audio is a horizontal plain rather than vertical separation.

At least with 7.1 you get the soundstage as was intended.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
N

thanks
Nice video, but still not sure which option I should go, also now I’m thinking by adjusting the tweeters isn’t it possible somehow gain the different sound elevation like Atmos even it it’s not 100% or perfect ? Maybe option C is not that Bad ?
5.1 and build from there.
 

MasonSafari

Novice Member
Forget Atmos, it's simply not going to work. If you go for seven in the ceiling then run it as a 7.1, at least that will take the audio beyond your seating position and give depth on a horizontal scale. 7.1 would make more sense than 5.1.2 where you will have all audio is a horizontal plain rather than vertical separation.

At least with 7.1 you get the soundstage as was intended.
Thanks gibsy
so I assume we get to what the installer recommended : A) all 7 in ceiling as I was told by installer , so 3 in a row in front of the screen, 2 in a row above our head and 2 in a row just a meter in front of the first 2 ...
it is definitely much easier as well , so I think I should forget about the in wall speakers as only right and left ?
 

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