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Need assistance: Denon AVR-X4700H Compatibility

jaksirak

Novice Member
Hello everyone, I'm new here in this forum, this is actually my first post. :)
I'd like to share with you guys, an issue I am experiencing hoping maybe somone could assist me...

Recently I upgraded my receiver from Denon AVR-X1400H to Denon AVR-X4700H.
The following inputs are connected to the receiver, all in an HDMI cable.

1) Converter of our local cable company
2) XBOX One X
3) Media Streamer (Nvidia Shuild).

And, of course, HDMI (ARC) towards my TV: Samsung QLED Q80R. Of course, with an HDMI cable. (ARC)

The problem is this:
When I stream some media (e.g Spotify), from my mobile phone, using Bluetooth or Air Play, it sounds great.
When I stream same media from one of the input sources (e.g Nvidia Shuild) then it also sound good. Well, actually it sounds a bit less good than the above but negligible, especially after I increased the source level in the settings: Setup / Inputs / Source Level.
HOWEVER: when I use as a source my TV itself, for example the Netflix, Youtube, Spotify or any other app that are installed directly on Samsung, then the volume is really weak and the quality is really poor.

I can not increase the source level of Audio TV in the settings as I did for the input sources. this option is greyout / disabled
I can not change anything on my QLED setting. Tried everything.

This problem bothers me a lot, as I was always used Netflix or Spotify app via TV.
True, I can use these apps in Nvidia but it's a matter of convenience. Furthermore, this problem did not happen in the previous receiver 1400H.

I realized that it might be possible to use an optical cable as TV Out, but I am losing sound quality. Isn't (DD+ in Netflix for instane)?

I would love your ideas and thoughts. is it a known issue? did someone had that problem before (different receiver) and fixed it?

Thanks you guys in advance
Best regards,
Jack
 

two2midnight

Distinguished Member
HOWEVER: when I use as a source my TV itself, for example the Netflix, Youtube, Spotify or any other app that are installed directly on Samsung, then the volume is really weak and the quality is really poor.

I can not increase the source level of Audio TV in the settings as I did for the input sources. this option is greyout / disabled
I can not change anything on my QLED setting. Tried everything.
This sounds more like a TV issue than the X4700, basically the input device just seems not to produce enough signal.

Have you tried optical from the TV to see if there is the same problem? If this works I'd go with that as the difference in sound quality isn't that large in my experience. I use optical in preference to hdmi arc as I find hdmi arc and cec more trouble than they are worth.
Is there someone here that knows how should I contact their support from abroad?
In the first instance I'd try the dealer you bought the X4700 from
or
denon europe and africa via their contact form. Israel is listed as a country on this form
denon support home

denon shows these details for sales in Israel

T.R. Electro Stereo Ltd
Yad Haruzim 9 Tel Aviv, 6770002 Israel

TEL: +972-3-6091100
FAX: +972-3-6092200

denon israel facebook
 
Last edited:

jaksirak

Novice Member
This sounds more like a TV issue than the X4700, basically the input device just seems not to produce enough signal.

Have you tried optical from the TV to see if there is the same problem? If this works I'd go with that as the difference in sound quality isn't that large in my experience. I use optical in preference to hdmi arc as I find hdmi arc and cec more trouble than they are worth.

In the first instance I'd try the dealer you bought the X4700 from
or
denon europe and africa via their contact form. Israel is listed as a country on this form
denon support home

denon shows these details for sales in Israel

T.R. Electro Stereo Ltd
Yad Haruzim 9 Tel Aviv, 6770002 Israel

TEL: +972-3-6091100
FAX: +972-3-6092200

denon israel facebook
Thank you.

I tried Optical. It either did not do it's job or I might configuer it wrong.
question: can I get DD+ (Netflix stream it) using an opical cable as my return audio channel from my TV?

I am waiting T.R response too. Already approach them. They checked my setting, did not find any issue and told me they will check...
 

two2midnight

Distinguished Member
Thank you.

I tried Optical. It either did not do it's job or I might configuer it wrong.
question: can I get DD+ (Netflix stream it) using an opical cable as my return audio channel from my TV?

I am waiting T.R response too. Already approach them. They checked my setting, did not find any issue and told me they will check...
No.
That optical also doesn't work seems to me to point to a TV or setup issue, did you configure it as an input in the X4700? do you have a red dot visible at the end of the cable when it is plugged into the TV? (shows the TV is outputting optical signal)
 

jaksirak

Novice Member
did you configure it as an input in the X4700?

I connected the optical cable from my Denon Optical port out towards Samsung ConnectOne Box port.
I configer in the Input (Denon setup) Digital as Optical.
I get sound, but same poor result.
plus Netlix DD+ do not work.
so Optical cable is not my solution

do you have a red dot visible at the end of the cable when it is plugged into the TV?

yep, got it
 
D

Deleted member 39241

Guest
How much do you have to increase the master volume by to have the sound level received by ARC at the level you want it?

Why don't you adjust the other inputs down in volume - via the source level menu that you mention in your first post, so everything is at an equally low level, and then just have the master volume higher?
 

jaksirak

Novice Member
How much do you have to increase the master volume by to have the sound level received by ARC at the level you want it?

Why don't you adjust the other inputs down in volume - via the source level menu that you mention in your first post, so everything is at an equally low level, and then just have the master volume higher?
Hi,
Nice thought which I thought about it as well.

The problem is not just the volume rather the sound quality in general. Yes, the sound volume is low, but even if I would increase the volume, it would sound weak. Less bass, Less treble and maybe the Mid would sound just ok. Not even sure about that :)

Nevertheless, even if I would take all my input sources down in their volume and keep my TV out volume high, then in case I would stream media from my phone (Bluetoooth or AirPlay) the volume would be so high that either my speaker could exploid or my wife will throw a chair at me, or even worse: both could happen.

By the way, I need to get up to 60% power to start enjoy nice volume from my TV app.
Bottom line: thanks, but I find this solution less practical for me :)

- Why this problem happen at all in the new Denon series? it did not happen before?
- Why can't I increase TV Out volume, as I do for my Inputs sources? (althoguh again, problem is not just volume, rather sound quality).
 
D

Deleted member 39241

Guest
On TV apps - eg Netflix, are you able to bitstream Dolby Digital Plus to the AVR via ARC? You might need to use the Denon app to confirm what audio the Denon is receiving as you cannot access the onscreen menus when using the TV apps
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Change your volume from the absolute to the dB scale. That will measure your current volume to the calibrated level much better.


Volume

Set the MAIN ZONE (room where the unit is located) volume setting.
Scale
Set how volume is displayed.
0 - 98
(Default):
Display in the range 0 (Min) to 98.
-79.5 dB - 18.0 dB:Display ---dB (Min), in the range –79.5 dB to 18.0 dB.

“Scale” settings are reflected in all the zones.
 

jaksirak

Novice Member
On TV apps - eg Netflix, are you able to bitstream Dolby Digital Plus to the AVR via ARC? You might need to use the Denon app to confirm what audio the Denon is receiving as you cannot access the onscreen menus when using the TV apps

Hi, Yes I can.
and Yes, I can also see the setup screen...
I am getting DD+ whether I am using the Samsung app or the Nvidia App. Same result. it Just the Audio quality on the Nvidia is 3 times better...
 

jaksirak

Novice Member
Change your volume from the absolute to the dB scale. That will measure your current volume to the calibrated level much better.


Volume

Set the MAIN ZONE (room where the unit is located) volume setting.
Scale
Set how volume is displayed.
0 - 98
(Default):
Display in the range 0 (Min) to 98.
-79.5 dB - 18.0 dB:Display ---dB (Min), in the range –79.5 dB to 18.0 dB.

“Scale” settings are reflected in all the zones.
Thanks,

Are you saying that if I change the volume from the absolute to the dB scale it will change the quality of the audio when using ARC?
actually, I think it was -79.5 dB - 18.0 dB but I changed it to 0 - 98.
I can give it a try... I have nothing to lose. It's just I can not understand the reason the way volume is displayed affect the audio quality..... what am I missing?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
The quality of the audio will be the same irrespective of whether you are using the absolute or the reference volume scale. It is however suggested that users use the reference as opposed to the absolute scale so it is easier to quantity the volume you are listening to relative to your primary listening location and the reference level the AV receiver was calibrated in accordance with.

The Volume setting simply changes the scale used for the volume and what that scale relates to.
 
Last edited:

gibbsy

Moderator
Thanks,

Are you saying that if I change the volume from the absolute to the dB scale it will change the quality of the audio when using ARC?
actually, I think it was -79.5 dB - 18.0 dB but I changed it to 0 - 98.
I can give it a try... I have nothing to lose. It's just I can not understand the reason the way volume is displayed affect the audio quality..... what am I missing?
As above in dante's reply.
 
D

Deleted member 39241

Guest
What volume are you listening at on the Denon scale for the audio from the TV apps to sound the right level?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
I have a Denon X6500 (front left and right driven from an external amp) and whilst blu rays can be enjoyable at -20dB both Netflix and Prime from my TV's apps are around -15dB to as much as -10dB depending on the programme. SkyQ can be much worse with some programmes having to be pushed to -5dB.
 

jaksirak

Novice Member
The quality of the audio will be the same irrespective of whether you are using the absolute or the reference volume scale. It is however suggested that users use the reference as opposed to the absolute scale so it is easier to quantity the volume you are listening to relative to your primary listening location and the reference level the AV receiver was calibrated in accordance with.

The Volume setting simply changes the scale used for the volume and what that scale relates to.

Understood and agreed. Changed it back to dB scale ... (in my previouse Denon AVR-X1400H receiver I used dB scale and not the absolute volume)
 

jaksirak

Novice Member
What volume are you listening at on the Denon scale for the audio from the TV apps to sound the right level?

Let's take listening to Spotify as an example:

Option 1 - Source is my TV App (ARC).
Avarage volume, (not that loud from one hand, enjoying the music from the other hand), taking into acount the absolute volume scale (0-98), I will probably need to go up to around 70.

Important to mention again that its not just the low volume that bother me... its also the audio quality.

Option 2 - Source is my Nvidia Shuild (input).
I will enjoy volue and audio quality around 40.
 

jaksirak

Novice Member
I have a Denon X6500 (front left and right driven from an external amp) and whilst blu rays can be enjoyable at -20dB both Netflix and Prime from my TV's apps are around -15dB to as much as -10dB depending on the programme. SkyQ can be much worse with some programmes having to be pushed to -5dB.

Thanks, so you are saying that for watching TV, you need to power up your receiver to around 70%. sounds not logic thing to do, for me at least. Or.. probably I misunderstood something here :)

Did you change the source level (setup / inputs / source level) of your Bluray? if not, the above make sense, still found it weird that we need to power the amp that much for reasonable volume.

So in my case, I changed the source level of my nvidia to +8db and therefore, I can enjoy watching Netflix or listening to music from Spotify, both installed on my Nvidia. However, I do want to watch and listen music from my TV Apps. It matter of convenience.
 
D

Deleted member 39241

Guest
Let's take listening to Spotify as an example:

Option 1 - Source is my TV App (ARC).
Avarage volume, (not that loud from one hand, enjoying the music from the other hand), taking into acount the absolute volume scale (0-98), I will probably need to go up to around 70.

Important to mention again that its not just the low volume that bother me... its also the audio quality.

Option 2 - Source is my Nvidia Shuild (input).
I will enjoy volue and audio quality around 40.
Is that with no adjustments on the input source levels?

A variation in volume between inputs, especially ARC is usual. There isn't any volume adjustment on the TV is there? I have a couple of Samsung TVs and there are some options as to how it outputs audio. I know you say you have checked that though.

The change in audio quality is puzzling though. If you are bitstreaming the same Dolby digital plus audio track, it shouldn't matter where it comes from, your amp should decode and process it.

A few thoughts...

Does Netflix provide higher bitrate audio tracks via its Shield app than its TV app?

Can you play the exact same file, maybe via a USB stick through the Shield and just connected to the TV?

Is the TV audio input identically configured to process audio in the same way as the shield input, are all the settings identical in terms of upmixing / Audyssey / any other channel adjustments that can be saved separately per input?
 

jaksirak

Novice Member
Is that with no adjustments on the input source levels?

I increased the Input source level with plus 8db. (Denon setup / inputs / source level).
I can do it for any input source. I can not do it for ARC. Therefore my Samsung Q8R apps, sound low, weak, poor.

Is that with no adjustments on the input source levels?

A variation in volume between inputs, especially ARC is usual. There isn't any volume adjustment on the TV is there? I have a couple of Samsung TVs and there are some options as to how it outputs audio. I know you say you have checked that though.

I checked. No, I could not find how to increase to make my audio using ARC be higher, richer, better..
The change in audio quality is puzzling though. If you are bitstreaming the same Dolby digital plus audio track, it shouldn't matter where it comes from, your amp should decode and process it.

A few thoughts...

Does Netflix provide higher bitrate audio tracks via its Shield app than its TV app?

Can you play the exact same file, maybe via a USB stick through the Shield and just connected to the TV?

Is the TV audio input identically configured to process audio in the same way as the shield input, are all the settings identical in terms of upmixing / Audyssey / any other channel adjustments that can be saved separately per input?

To my opinion, the problem is not within Netflix, or Spotify or Youtube.. rather it is pure an ARC compatability issue with either only Samsung or maybe other Smart TV brands as well..
any app on my Samsung would be sound bad.
I can plug a USB with FLAC audio file to my Samsung, then to my Nvidia. 100% sure it would be much much better (3-4 times better in terms of audio qulity) on the Nvidia.
 
D

Deleted member 39241

Guest
So, if the issue does not occur with your old AVR, but it does with your new AVR, it certainly does suggest that your new AVR has a fault.

I would just swap your old AVR back in to check that, without changing any other settings, that the fault is definitely not there.

I then recommend putting your new AVR back in, checking for firmware updates, performing a factory reset (make a note of your settings first) and if the problem still persists, report it to Denon or your dealer as a fault.
 

jaksirak

Novice Member
So, if the issue does not occur with your old AVR, but it does with your new AVR, it certainly does suggest that your new AVR has a fault.

I would just swap your old AVR back in to check that, without changing any other settings, that the fault is definitely not there.

I then recommend putting your new AVR back in, checking for firmware updates, performing a factory reset (make a note of your settings first) and if the problem still persists, report it to Denon or your dealer as a fault.

Well, I sold my old Denon... so I can not do that.
I approached our local Denon representative and they are checking with world Denon.
I also opened a "service request" (they call it question?) to world Denon but no answer yet...
 

jaksirak

Novice Member
Does the following theory make sense:
Probably, I have had always a bad sound quality and low volume from my Samsung. Also with my previouse Denon AVR-X1400H receiver.

However, maybe with my old receiver, the gap between TV and my Nvidia was small and therefore I could not notice a difference.

Now that I am using, as it were, an advanced receiver, I therefore can notice the big difference between my TV and the Nvidia...
Could that be a reason for what I am facing?
 
D

Deleted member 39241

Guest
Does the following theory make sense:
Probably, I have had always a bad sound quality and low volume from my Samsung. Also with my previouse Denon AVR-X1400H receiver.

However, maybe with my old receiver, the gap between TV and my Nvidia was small and therefore I could not notice a difference.

Now that I am using, as it were, an advanced receiver, I therefore can notice the big difference between my TV and the Nvidia...
Could that be a reason for what I am facing?
Possibly the change in volume levels between the ARC input and other inputs is not unusual. But the change in quality when you are bitstreaming the same audio track is puzzling.

Either the TV is doing something to the audio on the way out, or the amp is doing something to the audio on that input, that it isn't doing on the other inputs.

Did you try a factory reset and checked for firmware updates?
 

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