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NEC 42XM3 - heresy?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by DFL, Aug 15, 2005.

  1. DFL

    DFL
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    It took a while to read through the entire MegaTest review Interesting stuff came up. None the less I noticed in another thread that Gordon said he had calibrated a NEC to have comparable (almost) blacks to the Panny's. Given this statement and the others about how good the detailing is in dark areas, I wanted to stir the pot again.

    A friend of mine in Dublin says his company can get them at wholesale price. I don't even know how much cheaper this will be considering the margins everyone keeps writing about are so low. But the specs on paper seem pretty good, despite how much some stalwarts of AVforums.com think its not worth the paper its written on. (even Shrek looked bad ROFL) But there were still some backers out there. So it comes down to being offered a good deal.

    I've learnt loads about scalers recently and it seems I'll get a HD panel now and a scaler later, such, is my chosen path. I thought I had made up my mind to go for PHD7/8 but now I'm also considering Pioneer MXE and of course this NEC, which I didn't consider at all before.

    Is this forum still quite anti-NEC? Is it worth the hassle or heartache to save a few euros?
     
  2. Badger0-0

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    It'll never be as good as the panny on this forum mate.

    At the end of the day, if you're happy with the pic, go for it :thumbsup:

    Do you really need advice or do you just want to do what everyone else tells you????

    Go with your instincts and I reckon you'll be fine :thumbsup:
     
  3. DFL

    DFL
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    Baaa Baaa baaa, I think at times I only read stuff here because I want people to just tell me what to do!

    Of course you're right Badger. But I won't be able to demo this NEC, its suddenly an option because its a mate who can get it through work at wholesale prices. But as I alluded to earlier, I'm worried with margins so small that the cost saving benefit will not outweigh the PQ issue & my enjoyability. It's like those ads where the guy is sitting next to someone on the plane and says, I got this holiday for £2.00!!! hahahha

    I've seen the NEC brochure .pdf selling them at RRP£2595

    I should have waved a flag like NEC are better than Panny as my thread title. That would have got some responses ! ;)
     
  4. Rahmorak

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    Liam @ ProgAV likes the NEC so I would definitely consider it as an option.

    Unfortunately it really comes down to: You need to see a demo and judge for yourself. You should be able to find someone demo'ing it fairly close (or if you post your rough location there may be someone who will PM you and offer you a demo of their personal system).
     
  5. gizlaroc

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    I bought the NEC 42XM3 (the black one) and didn't get on with it at all, I sold it a week later and lost £600. At the time the 42HD7 was £3500 and the 42XM/R3 was £2800, now you can get the 42HD7 for £1900 so the NEC would have to be very cheap.

    Depends what you can live with, 2 things I hate are poor blacks and frame rate conversion, the NEC converts everything to 60Hz, and I watch a lot of sport so it used to drive me mad, if you turn off the FRC you get really bad coloured trails and smearing.
    I never got as far as trying to sort the black level out as the frame rate conversion was enough for me to get rid of it.
     
  6. lukassk

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    What is the problem with converting everything to 60 Hz ?? I have NEC and this option is on all the time , everything looks smooth, football ( and all other sports ) As for blacks you have to play around with options, lots depends on your watching conditions, ambient light.
     
  7. MAW

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    Frame rate conversion is a tricky one, some folks are sensitive, some are not. That bit I can clearly see, but it does not bother me. Maybe if I din't have this job I wouldn't know what it was, I see it because I have to know. It's down to the type of material you watch I think, footy being the worst for showing it up. It wasn't FRC that made me say what I did about the XM3, I'm the one who sent 2 back as faulty before concluding they were all like that. However, Gordon says he's made one work well, and has a respected friend who swears by them, so they can't be all bad. I can say conclusively that it takes more than 1 day's tweaking to get it to look even vaguely acceptable, I never got there, mine remained shockingly bad.
     
  8. Dutch

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  9. DFL

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    Hi Dutch, thanks for the ti off

    I've followed lots of your posts before and I know that you get excellent results with your Lumagen and Pioneer.

    Here is a quote from Jo F, which kind of confused me: "Input a signal that's not at the Preferred refresh rate and the Display will FRC to its Preferred rate or one rate for 50Hz Input signals and one rate for 60Hz Input signals - the only exception to this being the Pioneer MXE1 Displays that can be set to show 60Hz at 60Hz and 50Hz at 100Hz."

    1) Why is this such a benefit. Considering HD signals from e.g Sky HD/ Blue Ray/ HD-DVD will be 720p/1080i @50Hz.

    I quote from you "The MXE1 does have the DVI connector on the actual panel and not on the card as on the MXE. Unfortunately it still only takes computer resolutions, and not video ones." MAW says: "That's a laugh, the MXE you'll find is by far the better tool, apart from lack of HDCP support. "

    2) So still not HDCP compliant and no new board?

    3) funny PC hook up?
    Lastly if I hook up a PC I notice one guy say: "The only issue you'll have with PC use is the non-square pixels - the resolution is 4:3 on a 16:9 aspect ratio display, but there are ways to fix that. At the very least you can use a widescreen resolution with the correct format (such as 1280x720) on your computer and let the panel scale it on its pixels."

    It's obviously v. goof for the price as well. I have been debating this and the PHD7. I realise with both these options scalers and strippers would be nice additions. How would you convince someone to go MXE1 instead of PHD7?
     
  10. Dutch

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  11. DFL

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    Hi Dutch, thanks, but MXE2 will be out of my price range.
    This board has 2 HDMI inputs which are both HDCP compliant. Amazing. I have heard that Pioneer works best with digital input so this is a genuine solution.

    However, on a further search in the forum I notice Jo Fernand say:
    "I've just been talking to the European Distributor for Aurora Multimedia and I believe the TVP-500F will NOT be the solution anyone in the UK/Europe has been waiting on.

    There are no cards to test as yet (and no fixed date for the European version of the card) but I'm told the card will NOT accept 1280x720P 50hz input signals as this is not included in Pioneers spec sheet.
    I'd guess most folk will combine an external Video Processor with an HDCP stripper to scale 1280x720P(50) to 1024x768P(50) or 1280x768P(50) into the DVI Input on an MXE1.
    The TVP500 when its finally released in Europe will be CE approved but NOT Pioneer Systems Solutions approved so installing one in a NEW MXE1 will invalidate your warranty."

    This is not a very good solution for me, I'd hate to lose my warranty.
    What's your opinion on Pioneer being too detailed and bright and not black enough? Is it just Panny bias here?
    At the end of the day, with prices for MXE1 - 1799 and PHD7 - 1900 I don't think I can go wrong with either ;)
     
  12. DFL

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    Sorry to double post but MAW later in says: "This would indeed make the Pioneer MXE an expensive skyHD solution, but it might be the best yet, and what price for the best? That's the issue, no other screen will do native at 50Hz, with HDCP. For a surprising number of people, the only issue is to have the best. £900 is not much in the cost of a dual display plasma/projector installation."

    With the TVP-500F costing $750.00 US, and the panel £1799. (for me thats 3250 Euro) Compare that to the XDE here at DID electrical for 4999Euro!!!!

    Can I ask, if one considers 1024x768 at 50Hz which is native resolution of the screen as the best possible output, then, is MXE1, THE ONLY panel/ screen to do so? If so, as MAW said, (when it was much more expensive), this is the best panel and most future proof, and it just got a hell of a lot cheaper.
     
  13. gizlaroc

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    Rich Harkness posted this on the av science forum only yesterday and I think he sums it up nicely regarding poor back levels.

    The area I have highlighted in italics really sums up for me what happens when you have a screen with poor blacks. Whilst I had my pioneer hear and my panasonic I got to compare and you can get the Panasonic to have just as much detail in the dark areas, but, you get a better image by loosing a little of that and having the screen go darker, so why bother?
     
  14. MAW

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    Darren, I've heard this about the Aurora HDMI board. I am beginning to wonder what's the right of it. If they are correct, and not just muddled, yes it's been known for sales to not be in tune with technical, even in a cutting edge company, the Pioneer will not support the board, because, as far as I see it, it's outside the HDMI specification, and is not HDMI except in plug format. If you have some real dull time on your hands I'll send you the HDMI full spec.
     

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