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Nebula Capture Video Editing

Discussion in 'Desktop & Laptop Computers Forum' started by MikeTV, Jul 6, 2003.

  1. MikeTV

    MikeTV
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    I am using the Nebula TV capture card and I would like to know how to edit the capture files (which are .mpg files). Ideally I would like to use VirtualDub or something similar to crop the video, and store for future use on the hard drive (eg. music video jukebox, etc.). I have tried using Flask, but it seems to crash half way through decoding the files. Windows movie maker complains about the codec. Anyone know of anything?

    Also another problem is that the capture files stutter badly on playback using anything other than the Nebula supplied player (eg. wmp 9, zoom player). Is there something I can do for smooth playback in wmp9 (on AMD XP 2400+, 512MB)?

    Cheers,

    Mike.
     
  2. SeaneyC

    SeaneyC
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    It's a Mpeg2 Transport stream, so most software won't play it, or edit it properly.

    M2-Edit Pro will deal with this natively, you can download a trial from them, although the full version costs $1495!

    PVAstrumento will convert a transport stream to a program stream, with this you can view the files normally in WinDVD or whatever other DVD codec you use.
     
  3. Rob.Screene

    Rob.Screene
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    You might find TMPGenc's MPEG cutter and joiner tools work with this.

    There's both the freeware and Plus registered versions, I think the MPEG tools are probably still the same in both.

    regards,
    Rob.
     
  4. philipb

    philipb
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    My copy of TMPGEnc won't touch the Nebula files. Neither will most consumer packages - the bit rate is just too high.

    Stumbled on a method by accident. Dazzle Movistar will acept the files, but its a lousy editor. I use movistar to re-compress the files to MPEG standard then you can use any cheapo editor (DVD Author by TMPGEnc is good). Bit time consuming but it works.
     
  5. iwatkins

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    Maybe we should just ask Nebula to add an option to post-process the files it produces into soemthign we can use.

    In fact, I'll bang out an email.

    Cheers

    Ian
     
  6. gab2001uk

    gab2001uk
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    I have tried version 4 of M2-Edit, as the trial (v5) is too limiting for evaluation, but it changes a 600MB file to 2.4GB !

    I now use PVAstrumento to get the files compatable for other software. The altered files do not play well in the Nebula player, but you should then be able to use VirtualDub or others.

    TMPGenc is OK for simple cutting/joining, but for DVD production I use Ulead DVD Workshop, which is fast and simple, yet produces a professional looking DVD.

    Having recorded 8.5 hours of Party in the Park (22GB total) I now have to test the s/ware to the limit to produce an estimated 2 DVDs (90 mins per DVD, with all the adverts/interviews and other crap removed)
     
  7. MikeTV

    MikeTV
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    Thanks everyone.

    :)
     
  8. gab2001uk

    gab2001uk
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    Update on Party In The Park which may be relevant to the original question.

    I have created the first of 2 DVDs successfully with Ulead DVD Workshop 1.2, reducing approx 11GB down to 4.11 (100 mins) by severe editing.
    As part of the process, the software creates a new MPEG2 video clip for each edited "Title" produced, before creating the .VOB files. Each of these is a perfect edited clip in its own right for use in Media Player or whatever.

    Example: First Nebula file was 4025MB, and 4172MB after running through PVAstrumento. Using Ulead this was split into 3 titles, each approx 7-12 mins in length, producing files 288 to 513 MB in length in the DVD output folder.
    Even if you are not creating DVDs, the resulting edited files may be just what you are looking for.

    A trial can be d/loaded from Ulead. Email me for more info.
     
  9. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    How much can this be bought for? seems quite expensive off the Ulead website, especially for the AC3 version.

    Mark.
     
  10. MikeTV

    MikeTV
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    I'm downloading as I speak. Thanks.
     
  11. iwatkins

    iwatkins
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    I got a reply back from Nebula:

    "Hi Ian,

    Thanks for your e-mail and I pleased to report that there is an ongoing project which has the target of making our native recordings 100% DVD compatible. Our recordings are already compatible with most 3rd party MPEG 2 players but we still haven't quite found what is causing the incompatibility with certain players and essentially all DVD authoring programs. As such we are working to ensure that a future version of DigiTV will indeed make DVD compatible recordings and thus your request should be full filled.

    In the meanwhile you might like to try using a program called PVAStrumento which is available from http://www.offeryn.de as this can convert our recordings in to a format which is compatible with the majority of DVD authoring programs, as well as most 3rd party MPEG 2 players.

    Thanks again for your e-mail and if you have any other comments or suggestions which you would like us to hear, please feel free to contact us again.

    Kind Regards,

    The Support Team
    Nebula Electronics Ltd."

    :smashin:

    Cheers

    Ian
     
  12. philipb

    philipb
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    Interesting. I had thought that the incompatibility with authoring packages was due at least most of the time to a very simple issue - bitrates.

    The Nebula software records the broadcast stream which is very often at a very high bitrate. If you look in the technical bit of the software under each channel it shows the bitrate of the incoming signal. For some channels that is as high as 15 Mbps, which is way above the maximum allowed for DVD compliant files. That is why after I recompress the files I have recorded, all the authoring packages I have access to will take them, but none will accept the native file. Ulead which will import the original file must compress it down to DVD standard before you can burn to disc.

    There may be other reasons why some packages do not like the Nebula files, such as the order of the I B and P frames maybe, but bitrates in double figures will do it everytime.

    It does seem that the definition of a DVD compliant file does vary a lot.
     
  13. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    OK...Let me get my head around this stuff...

    I (We) want to record to DVD with the best quality image and sound that we can, in a way that can be played on a standard domestic DVD Player.


    Creating a Stand Alone DVD from a Nebula Recorded File


    STEP 1
    Pre-Convertion/Re-Compression
    Nebula saves at the native (aka "Too High") BitRate so we need to re-compress to a more compatible format/bitrate. To do this we can use PVAstrumento (Freeware:)).
    Questions:-
    What format/bitrate do we need to make the recording acceptable with the minimum loss of image/sound quality?



    STEP 2
    Editing
    Our new, now "acceptable" lower bitrate recording can now be edited. For me all I really want to do is cut out adverts and any undesired recording pre or post the TV program I wanted. For this, if I understand correctly, I can Use TMPGEnc (Freeware:)). For more complex video editing we can use a number of packages, of which Ulead DVD Workshop 1.2 @ £154.31 (or £299!! for AC-3 Version) has been recommended in this thread. Buying DVD Workshop would also negate the need for pre-convertion with PVAstrumento.
    Questions:-
    Can anyone suggest a more affordable solution for editing?



    STEP3
    DVD Creation
    Ultimately I want to make REAL DVDs here, with Menus, chapters etc.
    Questions:-
    TMPGEnc DVD Author v1.5 @ US$68 appears to be able to do all this and has a 30 day trial period pre-registration. Has anyone tried it?

    Is Ulead DVD Workshop v1.2 the best solution for this stage of the operation? and can it be bought a lot cheaper than it's RRP anywhere?

    Is DVD+ or DVD- specifically needed for playback on domestic home DVD players or will either work?


    Anything I've forgotten or mis-understood?

    Thanks,

    Mark
     
  14. philipb

    philipb
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    You got it in one:p

    Last night I recorded a prog from Nebula. Opened PVAStrumento, imported the nebula file, then clicked on the option to make a MPEG programme stream file (this what you need for DVD authoring. The PVAStrumento help file is good - it explains all the various options.).

    About 30 minutes later there was a new file which I imported into DVD Author; edited out the adverts; made the menus and chapters; then burned it to a DVD. Dead easy.

    Ulead DVD workshop will do it as well but I prefer DVD author - its so simple to use.

    If all you want to do is chop off the start and end of a recording and/or edit out ads I prefer DVD Author. But if you want to do more sophisticated stuff like adding effects, then you will need DVD Workshop. I have both and its really horses for courses.

    BTW - when you import the nebula file into PVA..., it lists the file attributes. On all the nebula files I looked at it reported that the audio is ahead of the video by some number of milliseconds. One of things that PVA... does is to get the audio and video back in synch - clever.
     
  15. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    Thanks Philip

    DVD Author it will be, I'll D/L this weekend and have a good play during the 30 day evalutaion period.

    I also ran a file through PVAstrumento last night and it was very easy to do.

    Which output is best if your only intention is to make it compatible with MediaPlayer? I find Nebula Recorder very unstable when playing back recorded files, having said that it regualrly hangs whilst watching TV too. Won't moan to Nebula until I try the new version on Monday:)

    Cheers,

    Mark.
     
  16. philipb

    philipb
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    Not sure about mediaplayer. Best thing would be to make some very short recordings then mess about with the different options.

    BTW after you buy DVD Author, go back and download the update (free) - it now allows you to burn straight to DVD, ie you don't need a third party burner.

    WinDVD will playback the nebula files in their raw form.
     
  17. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    Hmmm, well it seems like I've fallen at the very first hurdle... PVAstrumento seems very easy to use, I've selected a Nebula file

    And I have a choice between "DeMux" or "Make PVA" ("Make PS" is ghosted out as unavailable.)

    Both appear to work OK, but I'm not sure which of the 2 options I want. Both create output files in the root directory, however I can't get TMPGenc to load either type.

    What am I doing wrong?

    Also... it would appear that TMPGenc 2.5 has a 20 day timeout on MPeg2. I'm only on day1 so no worry there but I though this was Freeware not Shareware.

    Thanks,

    Mark.
     
  18. philipb

    philipb
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    Mark

    Don,t know why the PS option is greyed out. Which version do you have - I have 2.0.30. you could try downloading it again.

    I think you have downloaded TMPGEnc Plus 2.5 which is a utility for converting files. You want DVD Author. Look back on the Pegasys web site - you'll find DVD Author which is version 1.5.

    Demux separates the audio and video. PVA is explained in the help section.
     
  19. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    I downloaded 2.1.0 Pre7/Intern27

    I'm currently downloading 2.0.27 (the nearest version to the one you have on the Offeryn website. COIuld you let me know where I could find 2.0.30 please?

    A also got TMPEnc v2.513). This is the only version available from the TMPGenc website. It doesn't say "plus" and does say "free" in the zip name. Does "TMPGenc DVD Author 1.5" include the same functions? or do I need "TMPGenc 2.0.30" AND "TMPGenc DVD Author 1.5"?

    Many thanks,

    Mark Ward.

    [Edit - For version errors :blush: ]
     
  20. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    [quote[I'm currently downloading 2.0.27 (the nearest version to the one you have on the Offeryn website. COIuld you let me know where I could find 2.0.30 please[/quote]

    Version 2.0.27 doesn't have PS Disabled, however, reading the history log on the website your version as the last entry and says it has the following change:-

    "back to old video data handling, to fix endless "Cutting video"-Bug on certain stations ".

    A version with a video bug fix seems preferable

    Thanks,

    MArk.
     
  21. philipb

    philipb
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    Mark
    Think I've sussed what he problem is - apologies if you know all this.

    TMPGEnc is freeware and has been around for years. To get the MPEG licence the developer in Japan would have to pay some money which he was not prepared to do - hence the 30 day limit on MPEG2 functionality.

    An outfit then started offering TMPGEnc Plus which includes full MPEG2 functions but is not free (because they have to pay some money to the MPEG forum for the licence). These are the guys who also developed DVD Author. Both packages are available for purchase from www.pegasys-inc.com. You can buy and download them separately or buy the two together for $96.

    For PVAStrumento, go to www.offeryn.de, click on digital video, and on the right hand side you'll see a link to the latest version 2.0.30.
     
  22. kofsw4

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    Has anybody had problems with the audio/video getting really out of sync after using PVAStrumento to convert Nebula files to Program Stream DVD compatible files?

    I've tried lots of different things:

    PVAStrumento 2.0.30 to convert directly including unchecking each of the video/expert options

    PVAStrumento 2.1 release9 to convert Nebula file to PVA format then PVAStrumento 2.0.30 to convert PVA to PS (again including unchecking each of the video/expert options) as somebody suggested on the www.offeryn.de forums.

    but each of these ends up with files where after a few minutes of the recording, the lip sync is well out and gets progressively worse.

    I also tried using PVAStrumento 2.1 release9 to demux the files but then TMPGEnc doesn't seem to recognise the resulting separate audio and video files in order to remux them.

    The whole point of buying the nebula card and a dvd writer was so that I could create DVDs of TV programs that I could then watch on my stand alone dvd player.

    Can anybody help....?
     

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