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Nearly there - Just one more step : Sony KLV32M1 or Philips PF9986

Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs' started by BillSykes, Feb 3, 2005.

  1. BillSykes

    BillSykes
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    Gentlemen, ladies and fellow explorers,

    I have received an abundance of help from you in my quest for a 32" LCD. Thank you. The chosen two LCD's remain the Philips PF9986 or the Sony KLV32M1.

    Here is a brief update on my LCD adventures since my last email: John Lewis have been very helpful and set up the Philips and the Sony for me. Martin (extremely helpful chap) even brought his own VGA to phono cable in to help with the set up. It was at this stage that we discovered the showroom pf9986 was version 1.3 and no picture could be displayed from the component input (!) So, I viewed the Sony by RGB Scart and the Philips by RGB Scart to compare. Both very good but I am definately leaning towards the look of the picture on the Philips. Then I saw the Sony by Component feed. Now this, to me, was the best picture I've seen on an LCD. To say the least I was impressed. I took Spiderman Suberbit with me and tested the screens with the opening credits and the Times Square battle sequence. By scart both screens missed about a third of the detail from the opening credits and the richness of colour and clarity of picture via component was unequalled by the Philips. So, the only way to properly compare has to be to see the Philips by component input.

    My hope is that the Philips fed by component will be as good, if not better, than the Sony by component.

    However, to reach this next (and final) comparisson test I have had to order a PF9986 and ask for it to be delivered to John Lewis to be set up via component feed and compared to the Sony directly. The PF9986 is now (today) in stock and I have just paid for it ("GULP!") - which is the only way to get it to the store (fantastic price match with John Lewis, Glasgow BTW, thanks forum users ;-). I have the assurance of Martin that if the pf9986 is the wrong firmware (ie. without adapters and unable to accept a progressive input) he will keep sending it back until the right one is delivered.

    But, as I wait to see the pf9986 working I am troubled by the discussions I have read here and would value anyone's further comments about the following:

    1) I have seen comments that the component/progressive input to the Philips is not that different from input to the Philips by RGB Scart. I have seen the Sony with a component/progressive scan input and then the PF9986 with RGB Scart input and (and I know it's my opinion which may or may not be shared but) I felt the direct component input to the Sony gave the most astonishingly good picture I have ever seen. Am I alone in this? If so, please let me know what I'm missing. I really want the Philips to be as good if not better. Is it, as I fear, that the two adapters detract significantly from the source material to leave an inferior picture than you would get from a direct component socket?

    2) The most recent review I have read on the Sony was glowing, although I noticed in the group test in the magazine that it was not tested against the Philips. But, whilst it was pointed out that the Wega engine of the Sony does not give as much detail as the Pixel Plus 2 of the Philips it commented that there were picture processing problems with the Philips. Can anyone give me more details and I will look out for this when the screens are set up for me. In particular what processing problems exist?

    3) There has been discussion here about the "buzzing" contrast. Clearly this would be very annoying and I will check for it. Any tips on what the "worst" setting should be so that I can check in the shop?

    These issues really concern me. Although I have just parted with the cash I am confident that once set up I can still raise concerns and take the Sony (plus refunded difference) instead. Ideally I would really like the Philips to dazzle me with it's component input but, I'm not convinced from what I've read so far. I would sacrifice the HD compatability of the DVI socket for a far superior picture displayed through component input.

    Hopefully, I've not upset anyone with this request and, as before, I will be very grateful for any help I receive.

    Many thanks.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2010
  2. richjthorpe

    richjthorpe
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    The Philips has a DVI input which futue proofs it for the Hi Def signals that Sky will be sending out next year some time and also when Blu-ray/HD-DVD comes out. A lot of people on here have the Philips and the only review I've seen between them put the Philips in first and the Sony in third.

    What would you be using the Component input for, DVD ? If so, you can buy DVD players with DVI which should give an even better picture than Component.

    HTH,

    Richie.
     
  3. jimsan

    jimsan
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    Big long story Bill...

    Have you come across my post on the ideal settings for the 9986? If you can, print these off and take it with you. The 9986 on component/P-Scan is considerably better than it is on Scart, it just needs an educated eye to see.

    If you find the Sony better than the Philips (!) then go for it, as long as you are aware that the Sony is not compatible with future HDTV broadcasts from Sky.

    The buzzing thing has been a bit of a curse, but at least you'll get to sample 'your' TV before you get it home!

    Keep us informed
     
  4. BillSykes

    BillSykes
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    Jimsan

    I did find your post and have taken the settings with me each time I have seen the pf9986 since. They have been invaluable, thanks.

    As must be apparent, I'm very keen to see the pf9986 with component input and I'm so nearly there! I might as well repeat the frequent comments I share "Why oh why oh why oh why didn't Philips put component connections on it and avoid all this palava?"

    Anyway, it seems to me that the LCD's I am deciding between are both very good and it is down to the personal taste of the viewer. I know this is the advice you gave, jimsan, and as before yours and everybodyelse's guidance has been very useful and welcome.

    Once I've established the PQ alongside the Sony I think the best test I can give it is to try a very "soft" movie to see how it fares. What I need is to see what a film looks like when it has been processed to look "real". I've read that this is the look that you either love or hate with the pf9986 so that's why Spidey keeps getting trotted out. I have found Spiderman is a good choice, any suggestions for another?

    You don't have to answer this but, is there a dvd your pf9986 struggles with?

    Many thanks
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2010
  5. jimsan

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    I got a freebie DVD with a magazine...Robocop 37 or something. It was utterly dire! Both content and production quality. Even worse than Eastenders! In both respects...

    Anyway I had to wrangle with the settings to get this to look like anything at all, and in the end the film was watchable, just.

    The Spiderman startup sequence is an excellent choice. I tested two JVC's and a Loewe with this disk and they all struggled terribly! This is real Progressive Scan territory.

    I also did a side by side with the Philips, a Sharp and the Sony (MX1) and found the following:

    The Sharp was good with good source material, but struggled with rubbish.
    The Sony was good with good source, better with poor sources than the Sharp but suffered from poorish Blacks - even after fiddling. It also slams the door on HDTV so out it went.
    The Philips is good with everything. It is hugely adjustable so it can manage to manipulate itself around the most awkward source material.

    Admittedly the whole DVI/VGA/Component thing is a shambles and I'm sure those responsible at Philips have been suitable informed, but on the plus side, over and above its immense competance is the fact that it is future proof and, of course, it has THE AMBILIGHT! This is not to be underestimated....fantastic piece of techno trickery.

    Jimmy
     
  6. Car man sleeps

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    Bill, does this mean that John Lewis has at last received its long-awaited stock of 32PF9986s..??? I am one of many on the waiting list.

    I got a price match vs. Glasgow a few days ago, althoughthey told me the Glasgow price was £1999 (different to what it says on this forum)

    Car man
     
  7. BillSykes

    BillSykes
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    Yes Car Man

    As I understand it John Lewis had 50 units due for delivery to their warehouse on 1 February and customer orders for 85 units. That was when I ordered two weeks ago. Which, I think, should have made me 86th in line and unlikely to get one?

    Yesterday I was telephoned by John Lewis and told that my Philips LCD was in stock. I then paid to have it shipped from the warehouse to the store so I can see it working. It's due on Saturday and I should hopefully get to see it working on Sunday.

    The pricematch I got was with Glasgow John Lewis for £1,937.00 which I kept checking with Glasgow and was the price when I ordered and, according to John Lewis, was the price they matched yesterday.

    I'll keep you informed . . .
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2010
  8. Mad Jack

    Mad Jack
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    I've seen four reviews so far - two available here: http://www.homecinemachoice.com/reviews/ - and they all seem to prefer the sony's wega engine.
     
  9. BillSykes

    BillSykes
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    Yesterday I went back to John Lewis in Sheffield and saw both the Sony and the Philips running progressive scan. Both very, very good. But, for my personal preference I went for the pf9986. It had the edge for me and I prefer the "real" look of it's display. (Plus, by the simple press of a few buttons I can recreate the colours, brightness and contrast of the Sony on the pf9986 too ;-)

    The VGA to component adapter is not the highest quality but as I was able to compare the direct feed of the Sony I know there is little difference in PQ. Just out of interest, has anyone managed to source a better quality/shorter adapter? Even component to DVI?

    I have noticed slight "haloing" with some CGI (Finding Nemo) but I'm sure I saw a thread dealing with that on here so will do a search and resolve it.

    No BUZZ, hoorah!

    Many, many thanks to all for your help and guidance.

    The set looks/is fantastic!

    :hiya:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2010
  10. jimsan

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    Good Man Bill! Welcome to the Club!

    The 'Haloing' can be virtually eradicated with summore twiddling...You can adjust this set to look virtually any way you like!

    There is a better quality Component/VGA cable available, but so far no sign of a Direct DVI/Component adapter. PQ doesn't seem to suffer with the duff Philips lead.

    Get it home and let us know how it all goes...(Secret tweaks available to Club members)

    Jimmy
     
  11. BillSykes

    BillSykes
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    Well, I've just had two days off and the PQ of this set is astounding. I set the screen up following the suggested settings posted by Jimsan and then "tweaked" it to my liking with a THX optimiser. Very happy with the result, excellent!

    All the DVD's I have viewed looked so much better than before which is rewarding for such an expensive purchase.

    The only annoyance is that when I watch DVD's through the DVI input the screen ratio choices have been limited/disabled. The only choices you are left with are 4:3 or widescreen. For their chosen sources these are superb, be it TV DVD's such as Blake's 7, the Prisoner, Fawlty Towers, etc for 4:3 or anamorphic prints for widescreen. But for non-anamorphic DVD's such as Brazil - Criterion, the ratio is wrong and distorts the proportions in widescreen. On 4:3 the ratio is correct but the picture is substantially reduced in size. Does anyone know of a way to re-enable the many ratio options that are available on all the other inputs?

    After the palava I have gone through to get component input it would be disappointing to have to revert to scart because the screen ratio options are limited on the DVI input.

    Many thanks

    PS. Thanks for the welcome Jimsan - "secret tweaks?" Please let me know more . . .
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2010

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