Nearly flattened a cyclist this morning.

Discussion in 'Motoring' started by gibbsy, Feb 22, 2014.

  1. gibbsy

    gibbsy
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2007
    Messages:
    13,644
    Products Owned:
    3
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Cwm Cynon, De Cymru
    Ratings:
    +7,627
    Driving home this morning I caught up with a group of about 20 cyclists riding two abreast. It's a busy single lane road with NSL speeds. I was lucky and there was no traffic coming towards me so I pressed the loud pedal to get past. As I did so one of the riders decided to pull out to pass his mates, coming right out to the white line. Missed the clown by inches.

    What is more maddening is that to the right of the road is a brand new cycle track with a brand new surface that is pothole free.
     
  2. twoeyedbob

    twoeyedbob
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    879
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    ayrshire
    Ratings:
    +318
    20 lycra clad guys on cyclepath...woman with yapping terrier and pushchair going in opposite direction ...naw
    I can understand the theory of riding 2 abreast..it should be safer,however in practice i'm not sure
     
  3. un1eash

    un1eash
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Messages:
    5,022
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,442
    Similar thing happened on one of our lotus runs. 20+ cyclists all over the road untill 20 lotus and 1 noble went tearing past, by the time I got to them a few looked like they needed to chance there lycra shorts.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List
  4. NorvernRob

    NorvernRob
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2006
    Messages:
    4,332
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Sheffield
    Ratings:
    +3,325
    I hope 'tearing past' was a figure of speech rather than what actually happened.
     
  5. PSM1

    PSM1
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Messages:
    26,283
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +5,440
    You are supposed to over take a cyclist like they were a car and give the same amount of room. So when overtaking you should be on the other side of the road and not skimming pat them in the same lane. Hence you should not have been that close to the cyclist. This is because a cyclist may have to swerve for a pothole or may even hit one and go off line or in current conditions get blown by a side wind. So even if the third cyclist did go close to the white line you should have been the other side of it.
    Also cycle paths should not be used on a bike if going over 16mph or so. If there was a group of 20 of them I suspect they were doing quicker than that so should not have been using the cycle path anyway. Even if slower they are allowed to be on the road and there is no requirement for them to use the cycle path. Also as stated above due to other users it can be quite dangerous on a cycle path when in a group.
    Also cyclists are legally allowed to cycle 2 abreast and is actually encouraged to prevent drivers coming past too close. Also 20 riders is a big group and 10 rows of 2 riders abreast is going to be easier to overtake than a single file line of 20 riders (and help prevent a driver getting half way down the line and then having to cut into the group due to car coming the other way).
    I am sure the 3rd cyclist may well have scared you (as I am sure they were) but the number of drivers that give no consideration to cyclist is worrying. I have at least one incident every time I am out. Recent ones include an ambulance passing me with only 1 inch gap even though a single rider and as far to left as I could. Also indicating to turn right, move to the centre of road, about to turn and a car overtakes me (would not overtake a car indicating right so why a bike).
    Now there are some idiot cyclists as well who go through red lights, do not have lights in the dark etc. so we are not blameless either. However a little more consideration by all would make life much better. Also considering the person on the bike is always going to come off worse then maybe the car should just be a little more considerate.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  6. IanW1977

    IanW1977
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    4,585
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    West Midlands
    Ratings:
    +484
    I can just imagine 20 guys on a club or training run pootling down a cycle path!
    The roads currently are awful for potholes so overtaking a cyclist without giving plenty of room is just stupid.
    As psm1 says above you shouldn't be overtaking so close you wouldn't have done it for a car or a horse would you?
     
  7. its_all_Greek

    its_all_Greek
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,784
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Ratings:
    +2,604
    If another cyclist was able to comfortably fit into the gap between the OP and the other 2 cyclists riding abreast i would suggest the OP wasn't "skimming" them in the first place and if a car was passing the cyclists why did one of them Pull out to overtake the others without first checking that they wasn't being passed at the time?
     
  8. un1eash

    un1eash
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Messages:
    5,022
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,442
    Of course, my cars pretty quiet but some are quite loud and the number of cars must of come as a shock. The road was very long and straight so at no point were any cyclists harmed or in danger when making the overtake.
     
  9. Desmo

    Desmo
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2001
    Messages:
    14,599
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Braintree, Essex.
    Ratings:
    +6,719
    Maybe the 20 cyclists could also have been considerate and left gaps for cars to overtake some of them and then pull back in. It's easier to overtake a few groups of 3-4 bikes than the whole lot in one go. Consideration works both ways.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  10. paulyoung666

    paulyoung666
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2006
    Messages:
    13,510
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Teesside
    Ratings:
    +3,841
    How big a gap would you suggest ? , a couple of car lengths between groups would encourage dangerous diving in and out by cars I fear .....
     
  11. Desmo

    Desmo
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2001
    Messages:
    14,599
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Braintree, Essex.
    Ratings:
    +6,719
    How about 3-4 bus lengths? Is there any reason 20 bikes need to be bunched up together?
    I'm far from being anti bike, I often ride of the road myself in the summer but being considerate works both ways and if you can make it easier for cars to overtake safely with the least fuss to all parties then why not do that?
     
  12. gibbsy

    gibbsy
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2007
    Messages:
    13,644
    Products Owned:
    3
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Cwm Cynon, De Cymru
    Ratings:
    +7,627
    I was well over the white line on the other side of the road, accelerating hard from about 20 mph. For what reason the clown decided to pull out, almost into my path, I do not know. Not one glance over his shoulder to look for any hazards from passing vehicles. You noticed I said 20 mph because I had already braked behind them to make sure the road was clear for a safe overtake.

    I don't care whether your driving a car, motorbike or pedal cycle you look over your shoulder or check your mirrors before making any kind of manouevere that may put you or any other road user in danger. Ball was firmly in his court to ride in a responsible way which he did not. It was according to the wife who was in the passenger seat, very very close to being a nasty incident.

    As for my ability to safely pass a group of cyclists 20 years of advanced emergency services driving gave me some pretty good grounding.
     
  13. shodan

    shodan
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    12,090
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    shoeburyness
    Ratings:
    +7,629
    If you are putting yourself in harms way and making yourself vulnerable, then maybe you as the person on the bike should be a little more considerate...
     
  14. PSM1

    PSM1
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Messages:
    26,283
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +5,440
    I never said consideration does not go both ways and there are some idiot cyclists out there as well so no one side is entirely blameless. However, the number of car drivers who do not give a damn as they are safe in their little metal box is quite alarming.
    There is quite an aerodynamic advantage to 20 cyclists cycling close together which is why they will do it. Also I have been in a large group where we left gaps in the middle to help cars overtake. Only problem was you would end up with several cars trying to overtake at a time and then you would have 4 cars or more trying to squeeze into the gap and cutting in at the last minute. We then joined up as one big group and had far less issues with it. Hence the large group was actually safer for us as cyclists. Had the car drivers been more sensible and only had one or maybe 2 cars overtake at a time then the gap in the middle would have been fine and we as cyclists would have been safer. Hence you can see why cyclists end up cycling defensively and unfortunately this means it is harder to overtake. Unfortunately we have to cycle to protect ourselves against the idiot minority which means more inconvenience for the more sensible majority. Since we are going to come off far worse in any collision you can understand why we do this I am sure.
    I was out with a guy today how was hit from behind on a straight road by a car doing 50mph while texting. He is lucky to be alive but has some serious metalwork in his shoulder now. So with incidents like that again I hope you can see why we cycle like we do at times.
    It does sound like the cyclist in the incident above was not the most sensible but again they could have swerved due to a pothole or something on the road that you did not see as a driver. This could explain why they did not look back since they may not have seen it until the last minute especially if there are riders in front obscuring your view. So what may have looked like an overtake to you could have been something else. You have just assumed they were only overtaking the bike in front.
    As an advanced emergency driver I am sure you are trained to anticipate the unexpected happening and look for dangers that others may miss. So leaving enough space (as you seem to have done) for a cyclist to suddenly swerve etc.
     
  15. Bl4ckGryph0n

    Bl4ckGryph0n
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2003
    Messages:
    42,955
    Products Owned:
    11
    Products Wanted:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    ::1/128
    Ratings:
    +16,376
    In my days... :) in the Netherlands...choosing between a pot hole or the path of a motor vehicle...I choose the pothole each and every time....

    I do find cyclist in the UK very swervy (if that is a word...) I'm getting rather fed up with it...even when looking over their should the majority can't seem to keep the bike going straight....
     
  16. gibbsy

    gibbsy
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2007
    Messages:
    13,644
    Products Owned:
    3
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Cwm Cynon, De Cymru
    Ratings:
    +7,627
    As far as the guy causing an accident whilst texting I hope he loses and licence and his liberty.

    I can quite categorically state that there were no potholes at the location, I use the road daily. Half a mile further down the road and local knowledge would have told me that the edge of the road is like the Somme battlefield with so many potholes after water coming down off the mountain but even these have now been marked with pretty yellow paint.

    Like any motorist or road user the majority of their safety is in their own hands. I can look at cyclists from two points of view, as a car driver and the driver of heavy goods vehicles. The number of times that I've just caught a glimpse of a cyclist in my left mirror when driving a wagon going around a roundabout just shows how many cyclists just don't understand the dynamics and size of some wagons. I believe a lot of cyclists are killed when they are caught by the side of a wagon and then dragged under the rear wheels.

    Just what cyclists expect you to do when coming up behind them? I always slow up and give them plenty of room but should I toot my horn? I've done that on a couple of occasions only to be given the finger. On the other hand I've also been thanked by single cyclists when not going for a silly overtake and giving them plenty of room.

    As for anticipating the movements of cyclists..............well they have always been known as 'Denis the Menace' to fire service drivers.:smashin:
     
  17. NorvernRob

    NorvernRob
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2006
    Messages:
    4,332
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Sheffield
    Ratings:
    +3,325
    Hit a decent sized pothole at speed with 23/25mm wide road tyres and there is every chance you are going to damage something, come off the bike or both. Coming off a bike in front of a car isn't something that any rider wants to happen. Our route home today was virtually all downhill and we were averaging 33-34mph, you really don't want to slam into a pothole at that speed.

    With respect, the Netherlands is flat and most bikes are fixed gears with wider tyres and they aren't capable of the speeds road bikes achieve in the UK. Soaking up a few potholes isn't a problem, that plus the Netherlands has enviable cycle infrastructure means that cycling in the two countries isn't really comparable.

    Many UK roads are so bad you have no choice but to constantly avoid potholes and debris. Some riders don't help though by riding really defensively in the gutter, leaving themselves nowhere to go but outwards to keep avoiding the many hazards there. I ride 2-3ft away from the kerb, this allows me to nip inwards when possible and keep within my riding line more. It also makes motorists think about overtaking a little bit more rather than squeezing past too close at any opportunity.
     
  18. Bl4ckGryph0n

    Bl4ckGryph0n
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2003
    Messages:
    42,955
    Products Owned:
    11
    Products Wanted:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    ::1/128
    Ratings:
    +16,376
    To me many of the UK people choose the wrong bikes for the roads they are on. I agree, it is a very different and very immature market in the UK. Still way to many people in the Lycra who haven't got the foggiest.

    I don't mind road races at all when organised. The attitude of a some of the cyclist just plainly stinks. One started to to argue with me the other day about the size of my vehicle on the country lanes. Funny how he shut up when I actually live down that lane ;) bloody townies in their Lycra. They also don't like my dog on bridle routes walking off the lead. Different cyclists though but same attitude.

    Just got to learn to all live next to each other. And if the roads are bad, don't cycle in those silly racing wheels :) Get a proper Dutch style iron bicycle and you'll be fine.

    A aargh much better now....

    Ps. Can't wait what they think when the exhaust of my Golf R will be at volume 11 :devil:
     
  19. NorvernRob

    NorvernRob
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2006
    Messages:
    4,332
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Sheffield
    Ratings:
    +3,325
    I'd like to see you ride around Sheffield and the Peak District hills with a Dutch iron bike :rotfl:

    The attitude of some cyclists does stink yes, but look at any news article on the net about cycling and read the comments from people - it gives you an idea of how many people hate anyone that doesn't pay 'road tax' and think that bikes have less right to use the roads than them.

    The problem with the roads around here is that the worst ones are in the city (as you'd expect), once you're on your way out into the sticks there are some lovely smooth roads you can really blast along. You can't do that with big fat tyres, a workmate came with us today on an MTB with 38mm road tyres and we had to keep waiting for him.

    8kg of carbon and 23mm tyres ftw :thumbsup:
     
  20. Epicurus

    Epicurus
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    Messages:
    3,706
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +696
    How else am I supposed to get home after a few pints?
     
  21. IanW1977

    IanW1977
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    4,585
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    West Midlands
    Ratings:
    +484
    Of course we are swervy we ride ultra light bikes in crazy side winds!
     
  22. Bl4ckGryph0n

    Bl4ckGryph0n
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2003
    Messages:
    42,955
    Products Owned:
    11
    Products Wanted:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    ::1/128
    Ratings:
    +16,376
    Lol not disagreeing with that. And that is exactly the problem. Peddle faster and in the right gear and it is easier to stay upright :)

    Don't forget that I am a cyclist and probably have a few decades of experience ahead of most of you. Dating back from being a little boy come rain and shine cycling with all my schoolbooks by myself at least 20miles each day. I've been there and done it on all sorts of bikes and without Lycra.

    Gosh I sound like an old git ;)
     
  23. its_all_Greek

    its_all_Greek
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,784
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Ratings:
    +2,604
    Bikes have come a long way from the Penny Farthing haven't they dejongj ;)
     
  24. Bl4ckGryph0n

    Bl4ckGryph0n
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2003
    Messages:
    42,955
    Products Owned:
    11
    Products Wanted:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    ::1/128
    Ratings:
    +16,376
    Hey even 25 years ago the hybrid bikes were available :) great help for those struggling to put the power down on the pedals.
     
  25. Adcook

    Adcook
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4,520
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Wokingham
    Ratings:
    +1,447
    I sympathise with the OP, in that particular case the cyclist was a bit of a clown doing what he did. I would be suprised if he didn't know there was a car waiting to overtake. My cycle club (and many others I know) runs a back marker system for ride groups of 6 or more where the back marker warns the group of impending over takes at which point we move to single file if it is safe for the car to overtake. If its not safe we sometimes stay 2-by-2 in the hope the driver will get the idea that if he is to over take its his own risk and not ours. We also rarely leave "passing gaps" for the reasons already mentioned, it only really happens if a car has been stuck behind us for several minutes on a very bendy road.

    The suggestion to use a sturdier bike as our roads are rubbish is not helpful though, that would be like me suggesting a different choice of car for the same reason, kind of like that cyclist did when he suggested the size of a particular car was not suitable for country lanes ;)
     
  26. FZR400RRSP

    FZR400RRSP
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2007
    Messages:
    32,038
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Aberdeen
    Ratings:
    +10,374
    Our council spent £350k on a cycle lane from the airport down to the main road.
    Hardly ever used by cyclists, they still use the road.
    When I questioned one at the lights, he said the cycle lane was "too dirty and you get punctures"
    What, dirtier and more risk of punctures than the gutter?
    Eejits.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • List
  27. IanW1977

    IanW1977
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    4,585
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    West Midlands
    Ratings:
    +484
    Just because a cycle lane is there doesn't mean you have to use it. You can cycle on the road if you want get over it.
     
  28. FZR400RRSP

    FZR400RRSP
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2007
    Messages:
    32,038
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Aberdeen
    Ratings:
    +10,374
    Interestingly, pedestrian rules say that if a pavement is provided, you should use it.
    So, presumably, a pedestrian could get done with some sort of charge for walking in the road if they are wilfully ignoring a pavement (jaywalking, perhaps, or British alternative?)
    The same should be done with cyclists wilfully ignoring cycle lanes.
     
  29. PSM1

    PSM1
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Messages:
    26,283
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +5,440
    Some cycle paths are covered in all sorts of rubbish and far better in terms of punctures to be on the road (even if in the gutter). Also since you should cycle a reasonable distance from the gutter anyway then it is often far better on the road. The other thing with a lot of cycle paths is that you have to give way at every junction which can be very disruptive. While when you are on the main road you have the right of way of all cars coming out of the side roads. Councils seem to be spending a lot of money on cycle paths but often they are not well thought out and just stuck where ever they can without thinking about how they will be used etc. Now there are some great paths around that really help but there are also plenty of bad ones. In some cases they make things worse for cyclists since a lot of motorists just think you should be on the cycle path and not the road. As a cyclist I have a right to be on the road as much as anyone else whether there is a cycle path next to the road or not.
     
  30. FZR400RRSP

    FZR400RRSP
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2007
    Messages:
    32,038
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Aberdeen
    Ratings:
    +10,374
    You're undoubtedly right, as things stand.
    IMO though, the law should be changed so that if there is a cycle lane, you have to use it.
    They are there for your safety and the safety of others.
    In that respect, it's a bit like the seatbelt law and everyone accepts that now.
     

Share This Page

Loading...