Near death experiences explained.

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by m4rky_m4rk, Aug 13, 2013.

  1. m4rky_m4rk

    m4rky_m4rk
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    BBC News - Near-death experiences are 'electrical surge in dying brain'
    BBC News - Near-death experience 'all in the mind'

    I have seen some religious discussions raise the near death type of experiences as evidence of the soul, supernatural, heaven and hell, God etc.

    One day we may find that revelations also all happen in the brain and are not connected to the supernatural or anything real at all..

    Has anyone here had such an experience or know of someone who has? Does the science really help explain it?
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2013
  2. SteakAndCake

    SteakAndCake
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    I don't think any sensible person believes this experience is supernatural.
     
  3. leebarrow29

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    I always thought it was something like this. The brain can produce some crazy trippy experiences!. You only have to think of the emotional connection relating to our Dreams to see how real life they can seem.
     
  4. m4rky_m4rk

    m4rky_m4rk
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  5. SteakAndCake

    SteakAndCake
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    It's the same as when you used to power cycle solid state games consoles from the 80s really fast. The low/fluctuating power would cause strange graphical glitches. You'd often see the same glitches in different consoles Brain is electrical, brains are all biologically fundamentally the same, makes sense that the same images/experiences would be experienced by people when their brains experience the same situation.

    Well makes more sense to me than Jebus spending every waking minute standing in a long white corridor personally welcoming all the newbies into heaven.
     
  6. QuestShield

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    I woke up a few months ago into a weird state of consciousness. I knew I was awake, but found it almost impossible to open my eyes, nor did I want to. Everything was a brilliant white. It was like a power flowing though me and it felt good. That's what I think happens when you're at deaths door, you enter this level of consciousness and forget about the real world, just before death takes you.
     
  7. SteakAndCake

    SteakAndCake
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    Sounds like sleep paralysis whose symptoms also explain bedside ghost apparitions and alien abduction experiences.
     
  8. liamt

    liamt
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    brains are often fundamentally the same but there are some strong exceptions in this. have a look at kim peaks (sadly died recently, but the inspiration behind the movie Rain Man) and the woman with no brain who when they scan her head its a void. oddly she is a civil servant. basically she had water on the brain as a kid and it filled her cranium with only a 2mm layer of brain around it.

    since when has fact and logic ever stopped religion? :laugh:

    as steak says, its sleep paralysis. although ive never had the bright white thing. more like just being paralysed.

    apparently many hospitals now have a sign above the patient that can only be read by an out of body experience. IIRC nobody has ever mentioned seeing them.
     
  9. FZR400RRSP

    FZR400RRSP
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    "If you can read this, we've failed"
     
  10. shodan

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    Excellent, mind if I borrow this one?
     
  11. shodan

    shodan
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    What a great wind up!
     
  12. m4rky_m4rk

    m4rky_m4rk
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    Actually it was pictures

    Seeking Proof in Near-Death Claims - WSJ.com

    I wonder what sought of pictures?

    edited to add

    A pink dog is mentioned:

    It seems the study is running so no doubt the images are still secret..

    Jan 2013
    http://www.horizonresearch.org/main_page.php?cat_id=279
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2013
  13. reiteration

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    what if they use a mirror?
     
  14. liamt

    liamt
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    i think the docs might see a mirror in the hand of a no pulse patient ;) or also be amazed that a patient who is under general anesthetic was holding one. :laugh:

    m4rky_m4rk - cheers for the link :thumbsup:
     
  15. Dony

    Dony
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    Can any of you scientists explain this one to me.

    My father was an identical twin, and last year he and his brother both took ill during the same week.

    Unfortunately my father didn't make it, and passed away 10 days after going into hospital. His brother, who took a blood clot on his spine leaving him paralysed and barely able to talk was in another hospital about 30 miles away.

    My father died at 2.30am. The following morning, I went with my aunt to break the news. When we went in, my uncle was in tears. We asked if he had heard the news and he was able to nod. He told us that my dad had come to see him during the night....about 3am.

    I have a few other stories of those final days that perhaps could be explained away such as my dad seeing people from his past in the room etc, but the above is more difficult to explain.
     
  16. blue max

    blue max
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    Really sorry for your loss Dony. I won't speculate on your experience, as it would be too insensitive.

    My father died out of the blue with a Cerebral hemorrhage. He made my sandwiches in the morning and was dead when I came home from college. He was only 46 and had no illness at all. I had no sense of this happening, so my experience would suggest the opposite.

    We can put emotion into these events, but unless they are consistent, it is hard to accept there is anything unworldly going on.

    If someone derives some comfort from believing something, I would say they should hold on to it. But for me, I can't believe.
     
  17. m4rky_m4rk

    m4rky_m4rk
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    No of course I cannot explain it but just because I do not know all the answers nor all the facts to many the mysterious things that doesn't mean have that I resort to supernatural explanations instead. I can happily accept that I do not know everything with my current limited knowledge and facts. I also accept there are of those of us who find this way of thinking too difficult to bear. I am also sorry for your loss and hope I do not make things any worse.

    Sometimes I can feel that my heart would like to fill the voids with supernatural wonder but I recognise this as an age old human trait. I note that a lot of what seemed magical in the past now has rational explanations. I can also see that this trend will continue as long as there are people who still find using the supernatural as an explanation to be very unsatisfying and an easier but mistaken foreshortening of an otherwise much longer more difficult journey of discovery.

    Sometimes I think we have are only just started the journey and lots of exciting wonders lay ahead if we follow what we find to be true.

    The near death experience was just one such open question that was easily and often eagerly filled by many as having a supernatural origin and somehow a kind of proof that the supernatural is real and unexplainable. A sort of forlorn longing for something cosy and more comforting than a cold impersonal universe. Personally I always felt that a rational explanation was not far away if we bothered to look. I and no doubt many others also think that these explanations are obvious really. It just needed someone to do the basic science before we step forward and onwards to the next waiting mystery.



    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2013
  18. Jules Tohpipi

    Jules Tohpipi
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    I'm a man of science and I don't believe in a god or any form of afterlife.

    However, I don't necessarily see how this research disproves such beliefs. Were the mind to pass on to some other level at death, then might one not expect to see some kind of surge in the brain as the soul's rockets light up and fire it off into heaven/hell/the ether...whatever?

    Not my area of expertise on any score. But is a measurement of hyper activity in the brain around the time of death indicative of any concrete conclusion at all?
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2013
  19. liamt

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    sorry for the loss mate. twins have always had a special bond and there have been many odd things happen like this between twins.

    i guess in a sciencey way we are just elements and electricity. now of course elements die and corrode etc but electricity cannot just vanish. who really knows what happens. IIRC dont we all lose mysterious 21grams when we die and nobody really knows why.
     
  20. qwerty321

    qwerty321
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    I have something similar to add in regards to this. Back in June, my 12 year old nephew (cousins son) passed away from a sudden infection. All happened over 2-3 days. He passed away on a Tuesday and the funeral happened on the following Thursday (2 days). One of his friend's from school was told, by his parents, on the morning of the funeral and hadn't been told beforehand.

    When he was told, he simply said I know, I saw him last night and he told me that is going and shook hands with me!
     
  21. blue max

    blue max
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    I had a prospective client who was a glorified faith healer. Lots of candles and chanting etc.

    He more or less cornered me into coming along to one of his sessions (many people there) and I went to shake his hand. I recoiled and when pressed, said I felt something. He was intrigued and you could tell it was on his mind until I left as he kept looking over.

    I never had the heart to tell him it was static.

    Bet he recounts this story to his 'followers' to this day :)
     
  22. xox Godders xox

    xox Godders xox
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    This made me chuckle (I'm a civil servant). :laugh:
     
  23. liamt

    liamt
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    or hot hands. you can power up a 'chi ball' in your hands. one of my mates can do it.

    :) im not saying you are all a bit empty headed... just made me laugh. apparently she had an IQ of only 60, which i guess is impressive considering the amount of brain missing. worth a google as i found it fascinating.
     
  24. xox Godders xox

    xox Godders xox
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    The supernatural can’t be disproven (which is a fundamental flaw) and I don’t think this research claims to do so (although the BBC headline and the thread title could be interpreted that way).

    Science seeks explanations for natural phenomena (amongst other things) and a side effect of this is to reduce the reliance on supernatural explanations. It doesn’t disprove them though (as I said it can’t).
     
  25. xox Godders xox

    xox Godders xox
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    No I didn't take any offense, like I said it just made me chuckle. :D

    I will have to look it up.
     
  26. m4rky_m4rk

    m4rky_m4rk
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    If an idea can't be disproved it still doesn't qualify as being a real fact. It's still only an idea with no actual substance.
     
  27. xox Godders xox

    xox Godders xox
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    Correct. :smashin: I'm not saying it's a good thing if something can't be disproved. In terms of acquiring knowledge and trying to understand the universe, anything that can't be verified as being true (i.e. not testable or falsifiable) is useless.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
  28. m4rky_m4rk

    m4rky_m4rk
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    I knew we agreed. :) Ideas are just thoughts in the head until proven.

    I frequently see the 'it can't be disproved' argument being used by those wishing to convince others that they should at least elevate the idea proposed to being equally as valid as real proven scientific facts. It can catch people out if they not seen this logic trick before.

    The disprove a negative type of argument is an an abstract argument and it is not a real argument because any claims of disproof can be always countered by choosing any one of an infinite number of excuses. This type of argument is therefore rendered pointless. Or useless as you put it :)


    To labour the point: eg

    Person 1: I think there is bull in that room over there.

    Person 2: :eek: No there isn't I just came from there and I would have seen it.

    Person 1: I know its there. I can feel it in my bones. You didn't see it because I think it only shows itself if you are a nice person. Prove to me that there is no bull the room then I will believe you and not my bones.

    Person 2: :lesson: But am I nice person, I do lots of charity work!

    Person 1: Well, you have to do the right sort of charity work to be counted as nice and you have to also want to believe. Then it might show itself. I'm told it hates negative thoughts too. :rolleyes:

    ......add here an infinite number of test, fail, and excuse loops..........

    Person 2: :confused: This is impossible. I give in, I can't proof there is not an invisible, hidden bull that only comes out for nice people with right frame of mind and then only if they have positive thoughts and work for an approved charity.

    Person 1: If you can't disprove it then it must be true; there is a bull in the room. :smashin:

    Person 2: Doh!!!!! :facepalm:

    :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
  29. DPinBucks

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    Again, not to belittle the post, but first you have to discount coincidence.

    These things are often reported.

    Think of the lottery: the chances of any one entry winning the jackpot are very low indeed, but nearly every week somebody does. That's because the number of events (entries to the lottery) tends to outweigh the odds against winning. With 60 million people in the UK alone, it's easily to be expected that some will experience unlikely events each day, and that most people will experience one at some time in their lives.

    This is not proof one way or the other, of course; and research into affinity between twins is intriguing but inconclusive. This particular case may be inexplicable, but that does not mean that it couldn't be simple random coincidence.
    No. It's a near-myth pounced upon most notably by a Dr MacDougall in the early 1900s, who wanted to demonstrate the existence of the soul.
     
  30. EarthRod

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    The unconscious part of the brain is more powerful than the conscious part, also the conscious part of the brain is governed by unconscious processes. In fact, nearly all of the sophisticated and intelligent thought processes take place in the unconscious part of the brain.

    That says it all really.

    ;)
     

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