NDx1000 10 stop filter questions

Discussion in 'Photography Forums' started by onefivenine, Sep 6, 2007.

  1. onefivenine

    onefivenine
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    Ordered a B+W NDx1000 (10 stop) from filter depot today, having been inspired by so many awsome photos from allymac123 and mnore recently iGiDK.

    I'm wondering though... with such long exposures - like, minutes! :eek: - if people/cars/sheep? pass in and out of field of view, do they actually show up in the capture?
     
  2. allymac123

    allymac123
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    It depends on the tone of the object (how much light it gives off bacically) and the percentage length of the exposure for which they occupy their position...does that make any sense atall?!!

    Say for instance I went and stood still for 50% of the exposure wearing a suit made of light bulbs...(as you do) there would be a big bright mark where I had stood and depending on what the light levels were like behind there might be nothing or you might see a ghost of the field I was standing in.

    Bacically what you need to remember is that white records and black subtracts. If for the same example I was black and was wearing black clothing there would be a dark bit of the picture where I stood. You probably wouldn't make out any detail on me though.

    Once you know what your doing its quite easy to work out what you'll see. Say for instance your taking a shot down the pavement of princes street at a busy time - If you just see people and only for very brief periods of time see the pavment then that will result in an exposure of a sort of blur.

    It's hard to explain so best just to experiment. The best bit of advice I can give you is to cover the viewfinder with the viewfinder cover attached to your strap after you pop the filter on (you can't see through it anyway). This will allow you to meter accurately(ish) and will stop any light seeking in around the mirror when your exposing.
     
  3. allymac123

    allymac123
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    Actually this photo of mine is quite a good demonstration

    [​IMG]
    12mm | 76s | F6.2 | ISO 100 | CPL + ND 1000

    You can see the people standing mostly still have recorded quite alot, the peopl walking between me and the rickshaw's were not often enough to record but as you look down the street the perspective people you looked at was enough to make the ground dissapear. Also the bright light of the car's indicator has recorded quite clearly even though it was only there for a very short period of time.
     
  4. onefivenine

    onefivenine
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    So a fast moving matt black car won't show.

    ... like drawing in the air with a sparkler - the light will show up but your arms won't.

    I think you've highlighted the most important bit of info here - must commit this to memory!

    OK I think I've got my head round what I can/can't do and what to look out for and avoid...

    Obviously I need to experiment with it. Thanks a million for the advice and prompt response Ally - much appreciated! :) Especially as these exposures take so long this is really good info to have before you start experimenting with it :thumbsup:

    Can't wait to try it. Off to Sicily at the weekend for a wedding. Hopefully the filter will arrive tomorrow. I had to scour the net to find one in stock, and had a lengthy conversation with a very helpful lady on the phone! I'll be recommending this company tomorrow when :)eek: if!) it arrives in time!
     
  5. onefivenine

    onefivenine
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    Question no 2, actually I think I asked this before Ally and you answered it, but I guess it makes sense to ask it again in this thread for future reference for me and others.

    Calculating the exposure time...

    You evaluate the exposure without the NDX1000, say it's 1 sec for argument's sake... then slap on the eyepiece cover, and work out 10 stops from 1 sec...

    So a 1 sec normal exposure would be 1024 secs with the NDx1000?
     
  6. allymac123

    allymac123
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    Umm yeah that would be correct. I guess if your good/quick at exponentials then you could work it out like that. I personally meter with the filter on. Full manual - set shutter to 30s and see where the meter reading is. Hold the bulb exposure accordingly. If the marker wasn't on the meter reading then you can adjust ISO/ aperture accordingly. I usually overexpose by "a bit" when I do this. I also check the histogram of a test shot without the filter to help me decided on my exposure conmpensation.
     
  7. tontoshorse

    tontoshorse
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    Love that exact science Ally!

    Great explanation BTW many thanks.
     
  8. onefivenine

    onefivenine
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    Thanks again mate. I think I might save myself the numerical headaches and print out a wee spreadsheet table of the numbers on a 6x4 Canon Selphy print to carry around. :thumbsup:

    Then I can dial in the precise time on the TC-80N3 remote...

    Hang on though... does reciprocity failure (or something) kick in at some point and make the calculations go out the window...?
     
  9. Autopilot

    Autopilot
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    Basically, the way i understand it is say you have say a 30" exposure and a person stands in a position for 15" (50% the exposure time) then moves out - the person will be 50% visible it that area. Is that right?
     
  10. allymac123

    allymac123
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    Not with digital it doesn't.
     
  11. onefivenine

    onefivenine
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    Yes but I think and from what Ally is saying, it depends how 'reflective' or how much light they emit at the same time. If they are wearing black they won't emit light at the sensor but if they're covered in lightbulbs they'll leave streaks...
     
  12. onefivenine

    onefivenine
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    Ah is reciprocity failure just a feature of film?
     
  13. allymac123

    allymac123
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    Essentially. But it depends on what you mean by visible. Certainly the area behind them will have only been exposed for 1/2 that of the rest of the picture. But the quantity of light they gave out over that period of time will efect how they appear on the sensor. If they wore black and gave off no light then they would appear as a silhouette. Not so if they wore nomal clothes or if they were lit say for instance by a flash.

    Time for another photo....

    [​IMG]
    1/100s | -0.67 exposure compensation | 2nd curtain fill flash at (i think) +0.67

    Although not a long exposure in terms of normal standing this shot has a few good demonstrations of the effect incident light levels has. Firstly if you look at the road closed sign (top right) you can see that it is blurred from the right then crisper at the end. Here the 2nd curtain flash has caused the sign to appear more strongly at the end because it has recieved a lot more light. You can also see this in the cars numberplate (top left)


    Maybe its best to think of what will record by the percentage of light it omits to the camera's sensor. So say you have a 30s exposure in a pitch black room of a person. The person is flashed with a light for the duration of a flash (1/10000s?) this would mean that he was only visible for what ever that would be - 0.0000001% of the exposure. But he wouldn't only be 0.00000001% visible but infact 100% visible as he omited 100% of the light captured by the camera's sensor.
     
  14. allymac123

    allymac123
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    Digital has a very slight reciprocity failure I think but it is pretty much negligable in comparision to film.
     
  15. Autopilot

    Autopilot
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    I see, that what 'rear sync' is for then?
     
  16. allymac123

    allymac123
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    That's the daddy. It is generally accepted that images look nicer with the blur behind the subject than infront.
     
  17. onefivenine

    onefivenine
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    In terms of camera shake affecting the overall sharpness of images, do you think the NDx1000 on a long exposure is more forgiving on a windy day than an normal exposure?
     
  18. allymac123

    allymac123
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    Now that's a trickier one and one that probably depends on a lot of variables. The only time I've ever taken a long exposure shot when my camera was wobbling resulted in an unsharp picture. But I did remove the lens hood about a quarter of a way through the exposure as I thought it was adding to the shake. That may have moved the camera a tad and resulted in an unsharp picture. If the camera is continually wobbling though I can't see how a long exposure would lessen the effect. If it was only be woobled by gusts of wind then that may be a different case.
     
  19. onefivenine

    onefivenine
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    I supposed I shouldn't have limited the question to just wind.

    Perhaps traffic vibration, or other similar minor upsets to the stability - I think you've answered the question though! So perhaps it's fair to say that the odd minor movement won't have such an impact on a long exp with the NDX1000 compared to a normal one without.

    For instance, if you were on a suspension bridge, with people constantly walking over it causing minor movement...?
     
  20. onefivenine

    onefivenine
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    Well, I'm happy to say that http://www.filterdepot.co.uk/ came up trumps! :thumbsup: :D
    I ordered the ndx1000 yesterday, and I called them to stress that I am going on holiday and needed it next day, and it got delivered today as promised!
    How about that!?

    Considering it was a struggle to find one in the first place, I am well impressed with the service. :smashin:
     
  21. Autopilot

    Autopilot
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    I'm looking into getting an ND filter myself now (well have been for a while really).

    What is the deal with the ndx1000 then? Why is it recommended? How many stops does this afford you? i was going to get a Hoya that give a 3 stop down, but would this be enough for some really creative shots?
     
  22. onefivenine

    onefivenine
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    10 stops... see title! ;) Acording to the manufacturer its primary application is for photos of extremely bright objects like iron/steel foundries. But seing what results ally and other have got with them it's clearly got other uses!

    They also do a 20 stop filter buy the way! I think it;s for taking photos of the sun!

    3 stops is usually enough to blur waterfalls or the incoming tide. I already have a couple of ND filters 1-stop and 2-stop (and they can be used together). It depends how slow you need the shutter speed to be.
     

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