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Natural Motion on Philips TV

Discussion in 'TVs' started by beefybeef, Mar 26, 2001.

  1. beefybeef

    beefybeef
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    I own a Philips 9615 (I can't think of the rest of the model number but I'm sure that'll do!) 28" widescreen TV. It's a 100Hz set with a 'Natual Motion' option. This option basically makes the image movement appear clearer and smoother. It works very well, but I can see a fairly obvious shimmering (like a semi-transparent shadow that looks very digitised) around some moving objects, and it's particularly obvious around people when they walk around.

    I've just read something about 'Natural Motion' on the Philips website at this address: http://www.research.philips.com/pressmedia/background/natmot/judderfree.html

    Of course, it doesn't seem to mention a down-side to the feature. I'm wondering if anyone else sees this and if there are any settings I can change that may get rid of it? Maybe in a hidden menu? I've messed about with all the available settings and I can't seem to make this effect any less.

    Thanks for any help,
    Geoff.
     
  2. Jeff

    Jeff
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    My first bit of advise would have been not to buy a philips, but it's too late for that.

    If you go into picture settings you will find something called digital options, you should be able to select 100Hz, digital scan, or natural motion, I would try digital scan first, but have a go. Also make sure that DNR and active contrast (or what ever they call it) are set to off. Again have a play but what looks perfect for say DVDs may look crap with normal TV or sky so you will have to compromise.
     
  3. beefybeef

    beefybeef
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    Ok, thanks, I'll set mine exactly as you suggested and see what happens. It's mainly DVD's that I notice it on, but once you've seen it once, it's hard not to 'look' for it in everything you watch! :)

    Geoff.
     
  4. Ludae

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    What you are seeing is the 'halo' effect around the edges of moving objects. This won't occur all the time but can be distracting once you have spotted it. It occurs in areas where backgrounds are either obscured or revealed, these areas are a particularly difficult problem for motion estimators and the 'halo' artifact is the result of the motion compensated frame rate up-converter being provided with inaccurate motion vectors.

    I have spotted every artifact of the Digital Natural Motion processor and am particularly critical of video quality. However, I still prefer the smooth motion provided by DNM, the noise reducing effect and the increase in perceived spatial resolution to the judder and blur of other modes and display devices. I have become so accustomed to ultra smooth motion, particularly films, that I find the judder/blur of other systems intollerable.

    A new, more powerful version of the DNM is being worked on right now and the aim, of course, is to solve the artifacts you have seen, and more.

    Many of the objectionable artifacts I witness from day to day, either on terrestrial of digital TV, are in the source material or a result of the compression and delivery. I find that DNM can improve the quality of even quite ropy TV broadcasts.

    Motion compensation is a matter of interest for many display and video processor manufacturers, but it has been a complex technology to master and bring to consumer priced products, only two CE manufacturers have acheived this to date, Philips being the first and most accomplished.

    My advice would be to persevere with DNM, enjoy its benefits and try to ignor its occational failings. If you choose to turn it off, you will only be exchanging it for more artifacts of a different kind.

    [This message has been edited by Ludae (edited 27-03-2001).]
     
  5. beefybeef

    beefybeef
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    Thanks very much Ludae for all that information. It's nice to know I'm not the only one who can see this effect. I sometimes scream at my girlfriend to try and get her to see it (and other similar things) but she just doesn't! I've got Natural Motion on at the moment and will, as you say, try to ignore it's defects and I'll also mess about with the other settings as per the previous reply. Natural Motion really does make the picture far better and also, as you say, does clear up a dodgy picture (as I unfortunately have to suffer) very well.

    Thanks again,
    Geoff.
     
  6. beefybeef

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    Thanks for the advice. The Philips had many very good reviews which is why I chose it, plus it had features no other TV's had at the time. Anyway, like you say, it's too late to change that now! [​IMG] I still think it's generally a very nice TV, but has got several floors.

    I'm aware of the options you mentioned (100Hz, Digital Scan, Natural Motion). Digital Scan is better than 100Hz so I have it set to that most the time. However, Natural Motion can look really really good, which is why I like it. I just can't stand the shimmering effect it gives. I've tried the other options you mentioned-I've basically tried everything. Guess I'm stuck with it. :-(

    Cheers,
    Geoff.
     
  7. monitor

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    i have the pw9536 32" which has the same features. i have my set on natural motion most of the time (except for football on sky)
    i have all the other things like dnr, dynamic contrast ,active control on low, and i turned my contrast up and and the colour down slightly i have found, this to be excellent 99% of the time .I know the blurring you are on about and it tends to happen only on sky digital for me and is a result of over processing of the picture.with my settings DVD,s are superb almost 3d like ,smooth picture, sky digital is excellent most of the time it tends to be those crappy america afternoon tv films thats show up the blurring(watched the matrix on sky last night and the picture was outstanding).steam telly through the arieal i get no blurring but the contrast is a bit dark so i watch it on sky,ITV isn,t too bad but the s nowt worth watching on there anywhere.All in all i love mine and the picture quality is well above most sets(my mate has a panny 36" and the picture is very grainey and although he is panasonic through and through he thinks my ohilips has a better picture.

    hope this helps
     
  8. rauer

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    I too have noticed the halo/blur around moving objects, which can be seen most often on light and detailed background. This is sometimes really disturbing. I have the 36PW9525 myself.

    For a long time I kept turning the DNM on and then again off when the artifact was really bad. However, after 6 months I mainly keep it on. I does seem to do more good than bad.

    I haven't found any special picture settings or tweaks that would effect it. It's probably depending on the video material. Perhaps it happens all the time but can only be seen with ´certain types of images..

    Erkki
     
  9. beefybeef

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    Since reading what Ludae wrote a few days ago I've left mine set to Natural Motion. Even with the bluring, it's preferable to not having it on. I'm actually getting used to the bluring now and can partially switch my head off to it! :)
     
  10. StuartBooth

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    I bought my 9525 32" Philips about 6 months ago and the first DVD I watched was Erin Brockovich, just to test it out. I was gutted when I saw the halo effect around her boss when he first walks into his office, but I eventually found out how to turn it off via toggling to Digital Scan I think I'm using nowadays.

    I did love the fairly static image you get with NM enabled as it's so much more 3D, but when things start moving I just get all embarrassed at it.
     

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