NAS drive vs. Cloud...

Discussion in 'Music Streamers' started by PJHunter, May 21, 2017.

Tags:

    1. PJHunter

      PJHunter
      Member

      Joined:
      Sep 21, 2012
      Messages:
      20
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      3
      Ratings:
      +1
      I was all set on buying a NAS drive to burn our CD's to but then the question was posed... why do that when you could just use the cloud? I didn't have an answer to that one as i don't understand enough so though i'd post the question here.

      So why buy/use a NAS drive when the cloud is cheaper? Does a NAS drive give better sound than the cloud when playing back your music?
       
    2. drdocmatt

      drdocmatt
      Active Member

      Joined:
      May 23, 2016
      Messages:
      815
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      63
      Location:
      GB
      Ratings:
      +281
      Depends on the cloud. Pay per capacity to upload your own stuff, or pay subscription for Spotify or equivalent. I suppose the people who suggested it are either iTunes users or Spotify devotees. Most people prefer to have a NAS anyway.
       
      Last edited: May 21, 2017
    3. LoudAndClearGeo

      LoudAndClearGeo
      Member

      Joined:
      May 30, 2017
      Messages:
      15
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      6
      Location:
      Glasgow
      Ratings:
      +12
      If you're ripping FLAC lossless you'll soon run out of free space in the cloud, and you'll soon get frustrated by lag and other issues dependent on your broadband capacities. You'll also likely find that the better media players (audio and video) don't play nicely with all cloud services, hence a NAS become a better option for streaming around the home...
       
    4. ashenfie

      ashenfie
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Jul 31, 2008
      Messages:
      1,601
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      86
      Location:
      Northampton
      Ratings:
      +432
      NAS is under your control and ITunes is not. iTunes screw-up's has lost people all there music etc.
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
      • Like Like x 1
      • List
    5. LoudAndClearGeo

      LoudAndClearGeo
      Member

      Joined:
      May 30, 2017
      Messages:
      15
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      6
      Location:
      Glasgow
      Ratings:
      +12
      Agreed 100%. Ripping into a non-proprietary, open-source framework and codec (like UPnP with FLAC) allows you to retain absolute control of your music. Of course you can transcode or convert into AAC or ALAC if you wish, but your "master" library should not belong to anyone other than yourself. It also sounds better and follows a logical folder structure which is easily manipulated (and metadata easily modified if the need arises). Use iTunes and say goodbye to that level of control and freedom for the sake of "convenience"? Nah thanks.
       
    6. kit1cat

      kit1cat
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Sep 4, 2002
      Messages:
      1,474
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      51
      Location:
      Plymouth
      Ratings:
      +86
      I think the biggest issue with cloud storage is your internet upload speed, it took me a couple of hours to copy my music files to a external hard drive, I dread to think how long it would have taken to copy them to the cloud with my very slow upload speed. (less then 1 Mbit/sec).
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • List
    7. David Hillman

      David Hillman
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jan 8, 2017
      Messages:
      101
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      18
      Location:
      Illinois
      Ratings:
      +12
      Agree with the points made so far. In addition, my 4 TB NAS is also used for securing a lot of my other data, not just music. Also, I have AT&T Uverse broadband... sometimes. But when that is down, which isn't rare, I can still listen to my music. That is hugely valuable, to me, personally.
       
    8. Dune

      Dune
      Member

      Joined:
      Feb 24, 2005
      Messages:
      267
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      18
      Ratings:
      +16
      Unless the cloud storage is free, which implies limited storage anyway, I am not sure how it works out cheaper in the long run. A NAS is essentially a one off purchase.

      The cloud has its place though. It's a useful off-site backup location and can also let you access your music on the go from phone or tablet (provided you have an Internet connection) without having to transfer your music to multiple devices.

      With digital music libraries the importance of backing up can't be overstated. If you only have your music in the cloud then however unlikely it may seem, if there is a problem you could lose the lot. It doesn't have to be an unlikely failure of the cloud itself but your account could be hacked for example.

      My music is stored on the computer where it is ripped/purchased, the NAS drive the streamer uses, a backup removable disc drive that is backed up to via CrashPlan and the CrashPlan cloud backup service. All these hold the original FLAC files. I also convert to MP3 and used to use the free allocation from Google Music for accessing the music on the go but now I tend to use Amazon as I am a prime customer.
       
    9. drdocmatt

      drdocmatt
      Active Member

      Joined:
      May 23, 2016
      Messages:
      815
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      63
      Location:
      GB
      Ratings:
      +281
      In my experience a NAS lasts two years before I wind up buying larger HDDs, so no it's not a one off purchase at all. You can annualise that cost and compare it to a cloud service. I reckon I spend about a hundred quid a year on HDDs, if not more. I'll still do that because I believe in local copies first, but cloud backups costing £55/yr is cheap by comparison.
       
    10. golden phoenix

      golden phoenix
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Aug 29, 2005
      Messages:
      12,439
      Products Owned:
      7
      Products Wanted:
      2
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      cheshire
      Ratings:
      +4,435
      so what and were are the best NAS systems that you can buy as i new comer to the NAS world myself?
       
    11. Abacus

      Abacus
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jan 19, 2015
      Messages:
      389
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      47
      Location:
      Torbay
      Ratings:
      +209
      For optimum backup of files and music a local (NAS), Cloud, and off site physical storage is always recommended.

      The question as to which is best is irrelevant, as you should have both mentioned in the above posts as a minimum.

      As to the interface you use top access your music, then that is purely personal choice, there is no one size fits all.

      Bill
       
    12. NinjaMonkeyUK

      NinjaMonkeyUK
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Aug 1, 2004
      Messages:
      893
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      46
      Ratings:
      +190
      Synology :)
       
    13. psikey

      psikey
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Oct 5, 2005
      Messages:
      7,543
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Location:
      South Yorkshire
      Ratings:
      +915
      QNAP
       
    14. golden phoenix

      golden phoenix
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Aug 29, 2005
      Messages:
      12,439
      Products Owned:
      7
      Products Wanted:
      2
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      cheshire
      Ratings:
      +4,435
      i guess i'm going to have to do what i always do...research.... and have a list of requirements, and i will check reviews etc. thanks for the suggestions to start me off! do nas systems play ball with oppos?
       
    15. psikey

      psikey
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Oct 5, 2005
      Messages:
      7,543
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Location:
      South Yorkshire
      Ratings:
      +915
      • Depends how much storage you need and how you want to access it (purely at home or remotely too).
      • Depends on your technical knowledge & networking competence.
      • Depends on you're preference for monthly ongoing cost or large upfront payment.
      • Depends on how much money you want/can spend.
      • Depends if you need resilience with RAID or backups or still keeping your CD's to be ripped again if all lost.

      I have a 24TB QNAP NAS used as a PLEX & Backup server mostly but cheaper can be to use a cheap intel NUC* with a couple of external hard drives so I now use a NUC with 3 x 4TB 2.5" external drives attached as my main server and just use the QNAP as local backup (plus external backup)

      If you have a decent router with USB 3 and DLNA support you could even attach a 8TB+ drive to that.
       
      Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
    16. psikey

      psikey
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Oct 5, 2005
      Messages:
      7,543
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Location:
      South Yorkshire
      Ratings:
      +915
      Assume that's a player with ability to access files on a network?

      I tend to leave my server/NAS for purely movies these days and just use either Spotify or Tidal for music as its just so much simpler and access to just about any music ever recorded.

      In the case of Spotify £9.99/month lets three off us have offline music (Me, Wife, Son) yet can still play directly on any of the 4 smartTV's in the house (some with sound systems attached), smartphones or even in the cars.

      If you must have perfect CD rip quality then its £19.99/month for Tidal (or cheaper if you know how).

      Something like this would be cheapest route for a single drive NAS (price excludes drive) then have an external drive of same size as a backup to store away from the home. As I said, all down to how much space you estimate you might need over the coming years Synology DS115j 1 Bay Desktop NAS Enclosure: Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories
       
      Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
    17. Superaintit

      Superaintit
      Member

      Joined:
      Jul 6, 2015
      Messages:
      30
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      12
      Location:
      Utrecht
      Ratings:
      +8
      I've been wondering about the same question the last coupke of weeks. As I work in IT I asked a couple of colleagues. Here's what they said:
      * the cloud is basically a server (a computer) over which somebody else has controlling rights. This can become a problem when things go wrong. So in short: if you dont save anything that has personal value to you the cloud is fine. Ie spotify and other streaming services.
      *Just 1 of my colleagues would save pictures or personal data in the cloud. The rest wouldn't even consider it. Just make sure you have a copy at your parents home or somewhere else in case of fire, lightning etc.
       
    18. Abacus

      Abacus
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jan 19, 2015
      Messages:
      389
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      47
      Location:
      Torbay
      Ratings:
      +209
      Post revised for clarity

      If you are new to NAS then Synology are probably the easiest to set up and use, (Good information on their website) however if you are prepared to do some research (And wish to use 3 or more drives) then I find the QNAP more flexible then Synology. (In the end it will be personal choice as Synology also do systems that can take 3 or more disks)

      If your router has a USB socket, then it may have a server on-board, so you could just get an external Desktop HDD to plug in, (Make sure it has no power saving features) to do what you want.

      ALWAYS, WITHOUT EXCEPTION: have a backup of your files that is external to your computer and NAS.

      Have fun

      Bill
       
      Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
    19. drdocmatt

      drdocmatt
      Active Member

      Joined:
      May 23, 2016
      Messages:
      815
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      63
      Location:
      GB
      Ratings:
      +281
    20. NinjaMonkeyUK

      NinjaMonkeyUK
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Aug 1, 2004
      Messages:
      893
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      46
      Ratings:
      +190
      Having used both Synology and QNAP in my line of work, I can say without doubt that I would recommend Synology over QNAP any day, especially for a home user. The web GUI on Synology NAS is so much better.
       
    21. NinjaMonkeyUK

      NinjaMonkeyUK
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Aug 1, 2004
      Messages:
      893
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      46
      Ratings:
      +190
      Your post reads slightly misleading as it sounds like you're saying only QNAP allows more than 2 disks in their NAS devices... Synology also provides a range of NAS units that cover more than 2 disks! I have a DS414 which is a 4-bay and I use 4x 4TB HDDs in a Synology Hybrid RAID setup.
       
    22. psikey

      psikey
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Oct 5, 2005
      Messages:
      7,543
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Location:
      South Yorkshire
      Ratings:
      +915
      Same. I work in IT and used QNAP and Synology for both home and work. Both do decent kit but my preference is still QNAP especially since they got the software better. We all have our favourites I suppose.
       
    23. mrmrh

      mrmrh
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jul 4, 2015
      Messages:
      165
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      6
      Trophy Points:
      31
      Location:
      Dublin, Ireland
      Ratings:
      +70
      If you're going to go deep into what a NAS can do either Synology or QNAP are both excellent options. I have a DS414 atm and could easily convince myself to go with a QNAP next time, my big regret is that I didn't go with one with an Intel chip last time so that'd be my #1 priority next time as some of the few apps I've installed have been problematic under ARM (i.e. CrashPlan) esp without a screen to get it initially configured.

      All that said if you're only wanting it for streaming music calculate how many discs you're looking at, factor in the format (MP3/flac/other) and quality and get a recommendation on size needed, consider if you'd want redundancy (RAID) as disks do die.

      This is something I've been considering myself, and would love a recommendation/howto on backing up my old CD collection... I listen to everything on Spotify and/or TuneIn on my Sonos' however when the broadband goes we can't listen to anything (no CD player and only radio we have is in the car) - I know if I'm going to bother backing up I'd do it the best quality (flac?) so would just like to get advice on the best trustworthy Windows program for it, alternatively I could throw Linux on an old laptop but fear my son has wrecked the CD-ROM drive by poking at it with his sticky fingers.
       
    24. Abacus

      Abacus
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jan 19, 2015
      Messages:
      389
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      47
      Location:
      Torbay
      Ratings:
      +209
      If you’re using the latest Windows OS then Windows Media Player is fine, as it now rips to FLAC.

      If you have some problem discs, then EAC is your best bet as it will re-read the disc as many times as it takes to get a 100% rip.

      The one I personally use is FairStars CD Ripper; it’s free and does everything you need.

      Hope this helps

      Bill
       
    25. RMP888

      RMP888
      Member

      Joined:
      Nov 4, 2012
      Messages:
      39
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      11
      Location:
      Singapore or Philippines
      Ratings:
      +6
      Both QNAP or Synology are good choices; It is hard to make a mistake with these two brands. I bought a 5 bay synology box and found the initial setup quite easy. When you by a NAS you typically underestimate the amount of HDD space you need, but upgraded the five 2TB drives to 4TB when the smaller drives started to fail [in a RAID5 situation]. The home movies in 720p change to 1080 and now with many cameras doing 4k like my FZ2500, disk space disappears quickly. Not counting the countless pictures / personal documents are also stored on the NAS.

      QNAP or Synology both come with various apps, which make the content remotely accessible. Which is quite useful although I use a NUC to access my media content when at home.

      Music - A NAS is great with everything of mine in FLAC, my own dedicated folder structure under my control, which my Yamaha amp accesses directly or I can access remotely if wanted.

      I let the other family members do what they want in their own space/account on the NAS. I encourage them to back up their laptops to the NAS. Which means HDD space can evaporate quickly. Which reminds me that a NAS should be backed-up or at least some the stuff you cannot afford to lose of it should be. Hard drives fail, only two of my 5 WD RED drives have failed in five years, I keep a spare accessible as well. Drives tend to develop some problems before failure, so those pre-failure warning emails sent via the NAS console are really useful and being able to hot swap a HDD when there is a failure is great. I used Crashplan, but it was so slow and not worth it, indeed for photo getting each family member to upload theirs to their 1 TB accounts in Flicker was better. Azure was just too expensive to think about.

      You do not need to populate the NAS will all its drives at the time of purchase, you can leave two or three empty and add drives as you need them. My next NAS will probably be an 8 or 12 bay. I didnt like the chip in Synology DS1817+, so might see what the DS2417 is like or move to over QNAP.

      Noise – some are nosier than others, which might be a consideration.
       
    26. russelkhan

      russelkhan
      Active Member

      Joined:
      May 2, 2006
      Messages:
      600
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      28
      Location:
      London
      Ratings:
      +47
      I have 2 copies of my music at home. I rip everything on my desktop. This music folder is then synced to my media server which serves the music to my assorted collection of Squeezebox and Sonos devices around the house. As mentioned in other posts, cloud storage for music will most likely suffer too many network related issues. However, I am considering expanding my cloud storage to make room for an off-site backup of my music. Currently I do this with my digital photo collection, which comes to just under 100GB. The cloud is great as a backup medium, but not really suitable as primary storage.

      Regarding NAS devices, any old PC will actually suffice if you are good with computers. My media server is a headless (no monitor) £100 Dell refurb that I got off eBay - I upgraded the RAM to 8GB (overkill really) and stuck in a 2TB hard-drive. With Windows 10 Professional on it I can connect to it via Remote Desktop from any computer or tablet in the house and manage it. It runs Logitech Media Server for UPnP duties and Sonos software for my Sonos devices. It's quiet, and as a Small Form Factor computer it's compact and lives happily in my living room TV cabinet.
       
    27. jchm

      jchm
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Feb 6, 2002
      Messages:
      151
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      3
      Trophy Points:
      18
      Location:
      South Notts.
      Ratings:
      +11
      I have always kept my music library (2500+ ripped CDs) in iTunes with files stored on an aging WD NAS.

      As its time to replace the old creaking 2TB NAS device AND I hate the mess which is iTunes, how easy (or not) would it be to convert my library into a new open source software on a new NAS? A possible complication is my library is presently all ripped into Apple Lossless format.
       
    28. psikey

      psikey
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Oct 5, 2005
      Messages:
      7,543
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Location:
      South Yorkshire
      Ratings:
      +915
      I did the ARM ones early on but mine is now a 4 bay TS-470Pro with 16GB RAM, 8TB drives & upgraded to Xeon E3-1265LV2 Quad core CPU. Can handle simultaneous HD transcoding with Plex Server. Total overkill purely for music but mine also runs Windows 10 as a VM within the NAS.

      Saying all that, its off most of the time now as I made a fan-less NUC system with 2TB internal plus 3x4TB 2.5" drives giving total storage of 14TB (OS is Windows 10 Pro on a 250GB M2). Also has 32GB RAM and 6th gen i5 and still pulls under 10w idling. As I mentioned above, QNAP currently used mainly as backup with another 8TB external drive holding critical stuff away from the home.

      20170624_131458.jpg
       
      Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
    29. scrowe

      scrowe
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Jan 8, 2005
      Messages:
      1,131
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      116
      Location:
      Brighton
      Ratings:
      +658
      Ultimately depends on how much space, or how big your collection is. Assuming 1TB, I think the Microsoft tools are under-rated, and that's what I use. Starting with WMP I ripped everything to local hard-drive, as WMA lossless. Recently have also converted to FLAC. For me, WMP does a great job with meta-data and art, but has easy editing anyway. Then just drag the Music folder to Onedrive, and let it background sync to cloud, and download to any other devices running onedrive, which will then force syncs and replication between devices you want the local high quality files available.

      1tb of Onedrive is not free, unless you have an Office365 Sub, but storage plans are competitive. But apps are cross-platform, Windows10, Windows Mobile, Android, IOS, including Microsoft's Groove Media Player which fully integrates with Onedrive cloud storage, plus local storage. but the web-player via onedrive.com means you have play from anywhere, irrespective.

      Now I also have a HP Microserver, with RAID array for media and backup, and I run Onedrive on Windows Server Foundation 2012, with Emby, although I think other people have found Windows 10 is fine. I supplement this with SyncToy and Windows File Backup from my devices to the server.
       
    30. orange55

      orange55
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Feb 27, 2006
      Messages:
      652
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      46
      Location:
      London
      Ratings:
      +213
      As mentioned near the start of the thread, it does also depend on what type of streamer you are using and what the rest of your system is up to.

      For example here are the things I found that effected sound quality, which for me is the number 1 criteria.

      I now use Minim Server on my Synology NAS and found that setting it to stream all audio at 96khz as this made a big difference to the sound I got from my files. The background is darker and the perception of more detail as a result. I recommend anyone to try this setting and see if you can notice a difference.

      Tidal, On my system I can hear what sounds like a slight hash in the treble, and I can hear it on my Mojo also when using headphones. This is not a fault with my system as a google will find that this is commonly reported with reveling systems. Therefore if I am doing serious listening then Tidal gets annoying after a couple of tracks.

      Therefore based on the above for me cloud storage would not give enough control over the sound.

      Finally on software, which as stated each to there own. I have found that I use dbpoweramp to rip my CD's, but then use iTunes to manage the music so I can load onto iDevices and easily create playlists. (Which I then use another software to process the exported playlists to work on Sonos and in the cars. ) Sounds painful but I don't change them very often.

      Hope that helps.
       

    Share This Page

    Loading...
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice