Question NAS drive for Streaming

Cebolla

Well-known Member
Thanks for the help. It seems that ripping CDs should be pretty simply on a laptop with a cd drive. I was unsure of quality doing it this was but several people seem to suggest no loss of quality. Looks like there is no mid cost device that will both rip CDs and play them in good quality so as my CD player dies I guess I just ween myself of the 'disc handling' feeling.

Assuming you are using decent ripping software like the dBpoweramp CD Ripper already mentioned, there is no difference in audio quality. Plenty of opportunity to ween you off that 'disc handling' feeling when ripping those 500 music CDs - you'll likely never want to see another one again, never mind handle one!

BTW, thought it best to mention that if you are UK based, it is actually illegal to rip music CDs, following a High Court ruling that overturned the Government's attempt to be in line with the rest of the EU at the time (~5 years ago) & allow music CD ripping:
It's illegal to rip music from CDs
 
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Cebolla

Well-known Member
The easiest one to configure on a Synology is the in-built one that comes with the NAS as it's pre installed. However (annoyingly) Linn uses their own variant/modification of the standard DLNA/UPnP protocol called 'Open Home' which the Synology media server doesn't support. You can enable the additional 'Open Home' features by additional installing the BubbleUPnP package along side it, but that in itself adds some complexity for a novice.

So probably the easiest way is to install Minimserver on your NAS which does support Linn's OpenHome variant out of the box and is available in the Synology Package Centre. Later on you might want to look at these instructions which will allow you to run the very latest version. But for now stick with the version found in the Synology 'Package Centre'. The downside is Minimiserver's documentation is a little verbose and the configuration a little opaque, but out of the box it should do the basics.

I think you've got your OpenHome vs standard UPnP/DLNA wires crossed here:
  • MinimServer is a bog standard UPnP media server and has no special OpenHome support, even the Synology package version;
  • OpenHome streamers, like the Linn devices, are supposed to be able to access UPnP media servers (see Linn's own UPnP media server wiki document);
  • the BubbleUPnP Server helper application's OpenHome feature is only to allow standard UPnP/DLNA streamers and Chromecast devices to be used with OpenHome controller apps that would otherwise be incompatible, like Linn Kazoo and therefore nothing to do with actual OpenHome streamers.


Just in case anyone's interested:
OpenHome streaming vs standard UPnP/DLNA streaming

OpenHome (aka UPnP with Linn extensions) and standard UPnP/DLNA are actually closely related (but incompatible) streaming technologies. The main difference is that with OpenHome it's the streamer (aka renderer) that owns the current playlist; whereas with standard UPnP/DLNA it's the controller (aka control point) that owns the current playlist.

This gives the OpenHome renderer the advantage of being autonomous with regards to playing the tracks in the playlist once playback has started. It means the OpenHome renderer can sort out gapless playback for itself, allow multiple OpenHome control points on the network to interact with it without any side effects and even continue to play the entire playlist with all associated OpenHome control points switched off.

Contrast that with the standard UPnP/DLNA renderer which is completely reliant on the standard UPnP/DLNA control point for playback. So, the UPnP/DLNA renderer requires the standard UPnP/DLNA control point to tell it what the next track is and where to fetch it from every time the next track needs to be played. This forces gapless playback support to be an interaction between both control point & renderer and restricts the number control points that can interact with the renderer at any one time to one (otherwise you can get strange playback side effects with the various control points competing with each other to gain control over the renderer).

Note:
- Gapless playback is always supported in OpenHome and optional in standard UPnP/DLNA;

- OpenHome renderers cannot be controlled by standard UPnP/DLNA control points and standard UPnP/DLNA renderers cannot be controlled by OpenHome control points.
However, there are some controller applications that contain both types of control point, so can be used to control both types of renderer: eg, the BubbleUPnP Android app and Linn's older Kinsky controller (but not the newer Linn Kazoo, which is an OpenHome only controller). You can also get streamers with both types of renderer built-in: eg, Linn DS streamers and Lumin streamers;

- Both OpenHome control points and standard UPnP/DLNA control points can access UPnP/DLNA media servers (eg, MinimServer), to get their associated renderers to stream audio files from;

- OpenHome comes with optional built-in support for various extra services such as internet radio, online music streaming (currently only Qobuz & TIDAL) and synchronised multiple device playback (known as Songcast).
 
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Old Novice2

Novice Member
Assuming you are using decent ripping software like the dBpoweramp CD Ripper already mentioned, there is no difference in audio quality. Plenty of opportunity to ween you off that 'disc handling' feeling when ripping those 500 music CDs - you'll likely never want to see another one again, never mind handle one!

BTW, thought it best to mention that if you are UK based, it is actually illegal to rip music CDs, following a High Court ruling that overturned the Government's attempt to be in line with the rest of the EU at the time (~5 years ago) & allow music CD ripping:
It's illegal to rip music from CDs
Thanks Cebolla. Of course my enquiry was purely theoretical!
 

jamieu

Active Member
I think you've got your OpenHome vs standard UPnP/DLNA wires crossed here:

I did indeed — have my wires crossed.

I had always assumed — incorrectly it now turns out — that Open Home was a DLNA 'variant' that has originally come from Linn implementing their own DLNA media server software in the past, the additional features of which some developers had decoded to carry on supporting in 3rd party DLNA servers.

Thanks for setting me straight :) have updated my post accordingly.

(at least that makes things little simper for Old Novice2 as that means he can simply enable the inbuilt Synology DLNA media server to get started)
 
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RayP

Well-known Member
@Old Novice2, I ripped all my CDs six years ago using dbPoweramp on a Windows PC and it was easy. They’re stored on a Synology NAS drive (also used for PC backups).

I use my Bluesound Node 2i to play them. Wi-fi connection with hi-fi downstairs and NAS upstairs. The quality if ripped as FLAC is identical to the original and the sound via my Naim amp and B&W loudspeakers is superb. After 20 years of using a Yamaha AVR I have my hifi system back with a proper stereo amplifier.

Music is selected via the excellent Bluesound app on my smartphone and is far better than getting up to change the CD! 😁

And I’m not young either. 😉
 

Baobr

Active Member
@Old Novice2, I ripped all my CDs six years ago using dbPoweramp on a Windows PC and it was easy. They’re stored on a Synology NAS drive (also used for PC backups).

I use my Bluesound Node 2i to play them. Wi-fi connection with hi-fi downstairs and NAS upstairs. The quality if ripped as FLAC is identical to the original and the sound via my Naim amp and B&W loudspeakers is superb. After 20 years of using a Yamaha AVR I have my hifi system back with a proper stereo amplifier.

Music is selected via the excellent Bluesound app on my smartphone and is far better than getting up to change the CD! 😁

And I’m not young either. 😉
Nice one Rayp, so maybe I'll try that....sorry I'm thick,how do I get the ripped CDs to the nas,and how much did your nas set you back?
 

RayP

Well-known Member
Nice one Rayp, so maybe I'll try that....sorry I'm thick,how do I get the ripped CDs to the nas,and how much did your nas set you back?
£340 back in March 2013 which included 2 x 2Tb drives for a Raid1 config. That means if one drive fails you don't lose data as it's replicated across both drives. Essential when it's for backups and music storage. Synology DS212j but later models are now available.

You use dbPoweramp (£30) which is an excellent bit of software. Move the files created to a music folder on your NAS which can be configured as a drive letter on Windows. Just needs connecting to a Router via ethernet cable.

Each rip takes around 90 secs so it's no great effort.
 

Helix Hifi

Active Member
@Old Novice2, I ripped all my CDs six years ago using dbPoweramp on a Windows PC and it was easy. They’re stored on a Synology NAS drive (also used for PC backups).

I use my Bluesound Node 2i to play them. Wi-fi connection with hi-fi downstairs and NAS upstairs. The quality if ripped as FLAC is identical to the original and the sound via my Naim amp and B&W loudspeakers is superb. After 20 years of using a Yamaha AVR I have my hifi system back with a proper stereo amplifier.

Music is selected via the excellent Bluesound app on my smartphone and is far better than getting up to change the CD! 😁

And I’m not young either. 😉
You shouldn’t have changed to the Naim amplifier 20-years ago😉
 

RayP

Well-known Member
You shouldn’t have changed to the Naim amplifier 20-years ago😉
Shouldn’t or should have? 😉 Well 20 years ago did we have HT Bypass?
 

Helix Hifi

Active Member
Shouldn’t or should have? 😉 Well 20 years ago did we have HT Bypass?
You should have. I meant. Yes, it were much difficult to own surround amp back then. I seem to remember you needed 6-7 cables if you wanted surround surround. And course you have AVR surround amp that supports both picture, sound. You of course know that I used some irony when I joked about your surround amplifier. 😀
 

phil t

Well-known Member
Shouldn’t or should have? 😉 Well 20 years ago did we have HT Bypass?
My MF A5 integrated did, which (even though I bought mine in 2003) was around 20 years ago. :)
 

RayP

Well-known Member
You should have. I meant. Yes, it were much difficult to own surround amp back then. I seem to remember you needed 6-7 cables if you wanted surround surround. And course you have AVR surround amp that supports both picture, sound. You of course know that I used some irony when I joked about your surround amplifier. 😀
Well 20 years ago I had just bought the Denon A10-SE for a small fortune and whilst I accepted there would be a drop in quality it sounded okay. Bought the A3010 in 2012 and last year discovered HT Bypass. Within two months I’d bought the Naim. It would have been too messy back then with all those cables.

Better late than never eh? 😉
 

Helix Hifi

Active Member
Well 20 years ago I had just bought the Denon A10-SE for a small fortune and whilst I accepted there would be a drop in quality it sounded okay. Bought the A3010 in 2012 and last year discovered HT Bypass. Within two months I’d bought the Naim. It would have been too messy back then with all those cables.

Better late than never eh? 😉
Yes, been thinking about getting Naim amp myself. But I’ve owned really expensive amps in the past, and in my experience they don’t necessarily sound better then less expensive ones. But it’s all about matching.
 

RayP

Well-known Member
Yes, been thinking about getting Naim amp myself. But I’ve owned really expensive amps in the past, and in my experience they don’t necessarily sound better then less expensive ones. But it’s all about matching.
When you’ve come from an AVR driving your speakers to a serious amp the difference was more than enough to convince me. Whilst it’s impossible to remember how my Audiolab 8000C/P combo sounded in the 90s this XS3 is good enough to keep me happy.
My B&Ws certainly sound much better with a decent amp driving them.
 

RayP

Well-known Member
Using the Bank of England Inflation Calculator I entered 900GBP (the price of my CM4s) for 2001 and pressed the calculate button to see what the equivalent is today.

It's 1522GBP which just happens to be 23GBP more than the B&W 603 S2 Anniversary. Is my Naim XS3 deserving of better speakers?
 

Helix Hifi

Active Member
Using the Bank of England Inflation Calculator I entered 900GBP (the price of my CM4s) for 2001 and pressed the calculate button to see what the equivalent is today.

It's 1522GBP which just happens to be 23GBP more than the B&W 603 S2 Anniversary. Is my Naim XS3 deserving of better speakers?
I would perhaps see if you like the 603 S2 speakers vs the old B&W speakers. But old B&W speakers sound very good, still. Remember I had a pair of floor standing speakers back in 2003. The sound was, and still is very good. I’ve borrowed the 603 S2 Anniversary speakers from my dealer last year. The bass response is very good on them. But did notice some muddies in the sound vs Dali for instance. The treble is very nice on. Still for that price I expect more. I think the Dali Oberon 9 would be a fabulous match for the Naim. That or Dynaudio speakers. Unfortunately Dynaudio speakers cost a lot of money.
 

RayP

Well-known Member
@Helix Hifi , I’m undecided whether I need to change my CM4s. Despite their age they’ve been rejuvenated with a quality amp. I have no serious concerns about their quality. Just mildly curious what their modern day equivalents would be.
What amp did you use for the comparison?
 

Helix Hifi

Active Member
@Helix Hifi , I’m undecided whether I need to change my CM4s. Despite their age they’ve been rejuvenated with a quality amp. I have no serious concerns about their quality. Just mildly curious what their modern day equivalents would be.
What amp did you use for the comparison?
If you mean speakers? At the shop I compared the 603 S2 with speakers from Dali. All of the Dali models from the Oberon series up to the Optiicon range sounded much more fun with the Dali speakers. Got my foot taping. B&W didn’t. But the midrange is stunning on B&W speakers. Vocals are rich, forward. Dali midrange is not as rich compared to B&W. But in the the B&W speakers were disappointing when it came to a more cleaner, dynamic sound. I don’t think the 603 S2 is worth the money. I used my Marantz PM8006 with the 603 S2. That may be important because Marantz is on the warm side of neutral. Same with the 603 S2. In the shop they used the M10 from NAD. Perhaps the sound was cleaner in shop. And I’m not hundred percent sure if the speakers were fully burned in. I may try and buy the B&W speakers later this year. I change my mind all the time😊😉👍
 

Helix Hifi

Active Member
RayP, the Naim amplifier; is it neutral or warm sounding? Did the sound change after break in? And are you limited to only use DIN cables? Anyway this tread is taking another turn regarding NAS drives...:D:rotfl:
 

RayP

Well-known Member
@Helix Hifi , thanks for your thoughts on Dali and B&W. As you point out in a later comment this is way off-topic for which I apologise. Your points are duly noted. Should I decide to investigate new speakers I'll post my own topic.

Apologies to the OP for topic drift.
 

dogfonos

Well-known Member
I have been into hi fi all my adult life I'm clueless on modern technology.

I have approximately 650 CDs, some of which I never play and mostly the others I can find on quboz.

So is it worth buying a NAS to store them on,more importantly I haven't much clue how they work.

Weighing up everything you've said in this thread, Baobr, I'd suggest that the NAS route is not for you. In fact, I'm 100% certain it's not for you. Only my opinion of course.

I could go into long explanations as to why that's the case and relate my own, frustrating and not completely successful, NAS expriences but I'll refrain and just point you to your own comments (quoted above).

IMO, your best bet has already been suggested by John7 in post#2. It's the route that, in hindsight, I wish I had taken. Stick with a mix of Qobuz and physical CD's or music ripped to hard disc connected to your Bluesound Node 2i. To rip the CD's, you will either need to get someone to rip the CD's onto a HDD for you or purchase a specialist CD player/CD ripper - something I know nothing about.

However, if you decide to go the NAS route, there are plently of kind, knowledgeable and extremely helpful folk on avforums who will undoubtedly do their upmost to assist you. Good luck with whatever route you choose to take.
 

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