Name and review these speakers - Floor standing speakers + electrostatic trebles?

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by streetsurfer, Dec 26, 2011.

  1. streetsurfer

    streetsurfer
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    [​IMG]

    Can anyone name the above speakers?
    Its on sales for USD 2000 for a pair.

    I havent got any setup at all yet but they sounded pretty good and looking to get them as front speakers for my music setup / 5.1 movie mix.

    Anyone know much about them?
    Thanks

    PS.
    Im not sure if this is the right forum or on the Which Speaker Should I Buy subforum.
    Moderator please move this if its wrong! Thanks :)
     
  2. streetsurfer

    streetsurfer
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    I took a look at the back connector area but there wasnt anything to discern the speaker.

    but they was a 200watt 8ohms mark on it.
     
  3. fyonn

    fyonn
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    They look like Martin Logan's. I'm not au fait with their range so I couldn't tell you which model but it looks like their style.

    ML's are supposed to be very good but I've no experience personally.

    David
     
  4. Jaunty

    Jaunty
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    Umm why don't you just ask the person that is selling them? I'd want to know everything about them for USD2000.
     
  5. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
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    They are almost surely some variation of Martin Logan ELS speakers -

    Current MartinLogan Products

    Though probably a discontinued model. Which specific model I can't be sure. Notice on the webpage above, the logo. I'm pretty sure it matches the Martin Logan logo on the speaker, but the picture isn't clear enough to tell for sure. It is possible these are some Martin Logan clones, though given the expense of creating the electrostatic driver, it wouldn't save anyone that much money.

    I'm guessing they might be these speakers -

    MartinLogan | Purity

    or possibly this one -

    MartinLogan | Source

    These are incredible speakers, and as you can see from the prices, US$3000 to US$4000 is pretty typical.

    Steve/bluewizard
     
  6. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
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    Here are current prices on Martin Logan from a USA seller -

    Frys.com - Floorstanding Speakers - Martin Logan

    Note this very similar speaker is selling for S$599 EACH (Model = Source) -

    Frys.com - Martin Logan SOURCE

    However, this model, which looks very similar, are US$1299 EACH (Model - Purity) -

    Frys.com - Martin Logan PURITY

    So, the model of the speakers is very important to know.

    At any rate, you can have these two models for either £1200 per pair, or the more expensive model at only £2600 per pair, making the used price of £2000 not so attractive.

    Again, you need to know specifically what model Name is being sold.

    Steve/bluewizard
     
  7. Mark.Yudkin

    Mark.Yudkin
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  8. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
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    I'm surprised Mark didn't comment on the quality of the Martin Logans. I've only had a couple of quick auditions but they are amazingly present in the mid and highs. They didn't appeal to me, but they are amazing speakers, and I think more than anything, if I had listened to them longer I might have gotten used to the sound. They remind me of horn speakers, very delicate and crisp in both the mids and highs with tremendous presence.

    But, given the prices I found, and assuming I've found the right models, the used price is not that great. Though I'm not sure of the condition of the speakers. If they are relatively new and in immaculate shape, and they are the Purity models, the price might be justified.

    The question is, is it worth £600 more to get brand new speakers with full warranty?

    Steve/bluewizard
     
  9. streetsurfer

    streetsurfer
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    Thanks Mark and everyone else!

    They are indeed Martin Logan Sources.

    I only took a picture and asked if he was selling them a few weeks after.
    I wanted to take a look around before I jumped the gun and asked a huge bunch of questions about it before I did my own research!

    USD 2k is a bit pricey considering the deals others have posted.
    Brand new is likely the way to go :D

    Thanks!!
     
  10. streetsurfer

    streetsurfer
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    And your right though, Id probably stick another 600 quid and get a brand new pair with warranty than worry about them not being kept well.

    I've read electrostatics need to be kept out of humid conditions to be in top condition!
     
  11. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
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    Since we have confirmed that the model is actually the "Source", you can get them for $600 each. That makes the used models even less attractive.

    Steve/bluewizard
     
  12. jebjeb

    jebjeb
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    I used to have a pair of Martin Logan Vantages and they were absolutely fantastic. I wouldn't worry too much about environmental conditions unless you are in the full on tropics. ML has gotten very good at eliminating arcing or any issues with the stators. You do need to give then a vacuum every once and a while though.

    You may have some issues matching them to a centre speaker for your 5.1 setup unless you go with a ML centre.

    Also, be aware that they need a good amount of room behind them to breath as they are true dipoles (or would they be bipoles - always get those messed up). You would need a bare minimum of 3 feet from your front wall but more is even better. Of course, it's not like they stop working if try are closer but the huge sound stage and transparency just disappears if they are up against the wall. The other thing I see people do with them which is a no-no is have them butted up close to a side wall or cabinet. They need a lot of breathing space in all directions, not just behind.

    If you can place them properly, they are brilliant. The sweet spot of MLs are wider than most other ESL speakers but still a bit narrower than standard speakers. Do remember that the vertical sweets spot on them is purely the size of the panel so on these sources it is not that big. Basically, you have a vertical wall of sound coming out that is pretty much only the height of the panel (which is not that big in the Source compared to the big boys of the range). You need to tilt them accurately to hit you're listening height. You will notice a huge difference in sound once you stand up. They are a bit like the old rear projection TVs; if you are standing they look a bit dim but once you sit down, they are bang on.

    As for pricing, I wouldn't know. It sounds like you are in the US where MLs are much cheaper and much more common than the UK. Ensure you talk to a dealer first to see what sort of prices they are going new and ex-demo for.

    Cheers

    Jeb
     
  13. Mark.Yudkin

    Mark.Yudkin
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    The speakers are "dipoles" (sic) in the sense that the rear is out of phase with the front (bipoles: in phase), but since the panels are actually line sources, and dipoles are by definition point sources, the term is a misnomer. The curvature of the panels also means that the rear reflection is different from the front radiation, and the rather high crossover of ML hybrids (Source: 470Hz) means that rear reflection bass cancellation is irrelevant. More problematic is a hard surface, such as a window pane, which should be avoided. The upshot is that ML hybrids in generally are quite happy with rather less rear clearance. Positioning requirments are dominated by the requirements of the dynamic driver, so they're neither fussier nor simpler than any other dynamic speaker. This is also how ML can build on-wall ESLs (e.g. the EFX or earlier Script i) for surround sound applications. This is quite different from Quad ESLs or the ML CLX, which do impose heavy restrictions on positioning.

    As with all ML's, horizontal dispersion is 30°, which is pretty reasonable and more than comparable with non-ESLs. The Source's 71cm panel height does indeed limit vertical positioning of the listener's head. The Source does permit both course and fine adjustment of its tilt, to compensate for its small vertical panel size.
     
  14. jebjeb

    jebjeb
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    Personally, I noticed a big difference in mid and high range clarity depending on distance from the wall. I would have the back of the bass enclosure around 1 foot from the wall (making the panel around 2 feet from the wall) normally so as to keep the wife happy but wold pull them forward a couple of feet for critical listening.

    There was, as you say, the standard effect on the lower range as with a normal dynamic speaker but on the Vantages, with their active bass driver and variable level on that bass driver compared to the Electrostatic panel, that was manageable.

    One of the big pluses though is that truly look stunning. There was no way I would have been able to have a 5 foot plus high speaker in our lounge if it was anything but the MLs (or maybe some of the other ESLs out there).
     
  15. Mark.Yudkin

    Mark.Yudkin
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    I found the ML Spires a lot less fussy to position than the Quad ESL-63's they replaced, but yes I do have about 1m rear clearance. The Vantages are a bass reflex design, as opposed to the Spire's sealed enclosure.

    My wife definitely preferred the looks of the ML's, the transparent panel does work wonders. She never liked the appearance of the Quads even though she tolerated them for 18 years.
     
  16. jebjeb

    jebjeb
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    Yep, the MLs are definitely much easier to place than the Quad panels. The Quads are cracking but a pain to position.

    I imagine the Spires are a bit more forgiving on position being sealed compared to the Vantage.
     
  17. streetsurfer

    streetsurfer
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    mmmm ML's probably will have an issue in my current spot then. I've got relatively high ceilings (13 1/2 ft) but I was planning to put them in a spot where I have 13ft wall to wall. So they would have to be standing quite far forward rendering almost no space to sit far back enough.

    I have to keep looking around it seems :)
     
  18. Mark.Yudkin

    Mark.Yudkin
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    I think you've misunderstood us. The disagreement concerned the minimal rear clearance and sensitivity to placement, and my comment was that the ML's positioning requirements were dominated by the needs of the conventional woofer section - the panels imposed no additional demands (ML even make on-wall models). In other words, if you can't place full-range MLs, you can't place any full-range floorstander speaker.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2012
  19. jebjeb

    jebjeb
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    I think Mark and I disagree a bit of placement flexibility. However, my comments are made from having Vantages in a 22x18 foot room so can't really comment on the smaller models in a smaller room. Common thinking with most people is that MLs need a bit more room to breath. ML says in the manual for the Source that you should start with 2 to 3 feet from the front wall and tweak from there. To give you a rough comparison, B&W recommends For the 603/604 floorstanders 50cm (1.6 feet) from the wall to the front baffle of the speaker.

    The only other thing I can add is that you really need to have a home demo or a demo in a similar type room to be able to judge these. Having said that and without being flippant, it is less of a risk taking a punt with speakers at this price compared to something in the mid/upper end of the ML range.

    Can you try them out at home before buying?
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2012
  20. streetsurfer

    streetsurfer
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    Mark: I have a feeling im trying to do too much given my small space at the moment.

    Jebjeb: I probably could give em a try at home first. he's got em paired up with Quad II's i think but im looking to maybe pick up a much cheaper solid state receiver

    Maybe an Onkyo TX-NR609 or NR709 as a first setup. (would let me pair in a 5.1 for movies too)
    Too be honest Im not too sure what to really get for a first setup but having head a range of systems the ML sounded fairly crisp, it could be the quads as well though.
    My current sitting area is around 20 x 13 feet (13 feet from the wall on the TV to my back wall.) 15 foot ceilings
    I probably will have to pad my back walls too. Acoustic panels?

    Ive been browsing the forums for years but there is just way too much information to ingest at times and I think I should really just pick up stuff on a lower budget and upgrade over time and when I get a bigger space.

    I had a chance to listen to a Robert Koda setup tonight and it was WOW... but having said that, im not acoustically trained so im sure ill be very happy spending only USD 1000-1500 on a low end setup. (I pretty much run everything through my 10 year old denon cd player hifi set right now
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2012

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