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Naked Women 1070 Mission FS1

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by Peter Shilton, Nov 16, 2002.

  1. Peter Shilton

    Peter Shilton
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    I know its not an interesting title but I need your attention.

    I have a Sony STR1070 amp (100w per channer) and Mission FS1 AV.

    If I listen to "Dodge this" in the matrix at -22 db on th amp all is fine.

    However if I crank it up to -20 or higher, the centre channel starts to sound muffled. The "springy" sound as the agent dodges Neo's bullets dissappears, and as Neo shouts "Trinity....Help" the vocals are muffled. It happens at lots of points in the DVD but I use this as my reference point.

    I went back to my supplier who says the amp is not compatable with the speakers and suggests that I buy some Bose (ugh) ones. I have a demo of the Bose and tell him to turn it up a bit. he says, "you don't need it any louder than this". We are in a 10ft x 10 ft room. (I tell him that my lounge is 13 ft x 24 ft and I like to listen to it louder. He says it is probably the amp protection circuits kicking in. I don't believe this at -20Db.

    He suggests I buy some M&K speakers and sub for £1500. I have a demo of this and agree it sounds good, especially the thumping of the helecopter rotors. However he does not live with my wife (as far as I know) and does not appreciate that aesthetics play a part in speaker choice too.

    I borrow a friends Arcam amp which is only 60w per channel. Connect it up and listen to it at full volume and all the sounds are there. However according to my sound meter the sound level (it obviously varies) is about 105Db at max, for the gunshot as the agent is shot by Trinity.

    I reconnect my Sony and -22Db (at which all sounds are fine) is about 107Db for the same gunshot.

    Therefore... How can I tell if I have an incompatability problem OR
    A faulty amp OR
    Faulty speakers OR
    anything else.
     
  2. rjw

    rjw
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    As an educated guess, you are over-driving the speakers, and asking them to do more than they are capable of.

    How far from the speakers are you measuring sound levels?

    107Db is pretty damn loud. A quick measurement at about 1.5m from the front's gives 95DB as being about as loud as I run my system, and I have a much smaller room (14ft x 12ft), and more powerful speakers (Mission M74's) which have a 3Db higher sensitivity. This is using a similar spec Amp (Sony STR-DB940).
     
  3. Peter Shilton

    Peter Shilton
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    I am measuring them at the listening point which is about 4.5 metres from the front speakers and sub. The107Db is the reading of the gun going off as TRinity says "dodge this", which is a louder part of the film but a part where the is not much other sound and so I feel the reading is more consistent.

    The gun noise, at 107DB is loud and clear with no problems, so presumably the speakers can perform at that level?
     
  4. lynx

    lynx
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    Something is not right.I have Tannoy R2's & an R/c connected to a 1070 and all hell would break loose at the setting you describe.Normally -40db is used which is loud enough for most situations -22 would be at silly levels :eek: .
     
  5. kelvin

    kelvin
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    Agreed! I think my amp would take the roof off at that sort of volume. -40 is round about what I listen at in my large(ish) room.
     
  6. Peter Shilton

    Peter Shilton
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    According to some threads on here from a while ago the Mission FS2s needed to be driven at higher levels than conventional speakers. I wonder if the same applies to the FS1s. if so this would account for the difference there.

    But at -40Db on your system, for example, what is the Db level according to a sound meter of the gunshot/

    In a cinema, what would the Db level be?

    Anybody know?
     
  7. Jase

    Jase
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    Dolby Digital gives peaks of 105db for the main channels (FL, C, FR etc) and 115db for the LFE Channel. I assume its the same for both home & cinema playback.

    This why we calibrate our systems to 75db (or 85db with AVIA) at 0db on the volume display. Playback at 0db will give the above mentioned peaks, assuming your speakers can actually hit that level (most subs can´t!).
     
  8. Peter Shilton

    Peter Shilton
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    Jase

    My system is giving a reading of 107 fot the gunshot at about -20Db on the amp.

    As my system is NXT presumably that sound would come from the sub?
     
  9. Jase

    Jase
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    Could be a combination of both sub & the speaker, depends what frequency the gunshot is at, and also what speaker settings, crossover settings etc are being used. Sound meters aren´t 100% accurate throughout the frequency range so the 107db might not be correct anyway.
     
  10. Brad_Porter

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    This sounds shocking. Just as a side issue, my Denon Amp (well that an Arcam Power amp) are about the same Wattage as your Sony; 100W.

    What I dont understand is that -40db is not loud enough to listen to anything on my system and -20db is my usual listening point.

    My point is, how can -20db on a Sony be earth-shattering and approx. normal listen level on a Denon?

    Keep coming across this and wonder why there is such a big difference. This, if I am right, means that you will never be able to get your system to 00db which should be reference level
     
  11. rowbos

    rowbos
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    I also have a Denon amp (1603), together with FS1's.

    My normal listening level is between -20 and -30, however it has been as high as -8 when watching certain DVDs (that was very loud!).

    I have never had any problems like the ones you describe, must be a fault smewhere i think?

    Steve.
     
  12. tk2001

    tk2001
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    Your FS1s are rated 30 - 100W/Ch (more power than my FS2s rated 25 - 75W/Ch), so you should be able to drive the "Dodge this" scene with no problem at all. I normally watch my DVD movies between -15 to -05 on my Denon AVR-3802 (14 X 12 feet living-room) and the sound remains clear.

    Setting the bass-management correctly on amps can greatly affect the clarity of your sound.

    BTW, the only DVD movie soundtrack my Mission FS2av has problems with is 'The Haunting' R1 DTS 6.1 Discrete - my FS2 subwoofer just can't reach those thumping low frequencies and really struggles to stay in composure.
     
  13. Peter Shilton

    Peter Shilton
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    But where? I am tearing my hair out on this. have emailed Mission and not had a reply as yet.
     
  14. Peter Shilton

    Peter Shilton
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    -20 isn't earth shattering, that's the point. OK it's not quiet, but I should be able to go louder without a fault.
     
  15. kelvin

    kelvin
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    Where does the Denon stop though - last time I used a Denon amp the volume scale went into the + db's (up to about +20 I think :confused: ) - The Sony's stop at 0db so in reality, the volume levels are prob around the same :)

    Denon (assuming they go up to +20) @ -20 = 40db off of top volume.
    Sony @ -40db is again 40db off of top volume.

    Thats the way I always looked at it anyway - just a different volume scale :) Presumably, based on this, reference level on a Sony amp would be round about -20db as opposed to 0??

    Kelvin
     
  16. Peter Shilton

    Peter Shilton
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    so what is 0° Kelvin? -273.15°

    Sorry, couldn't help it!!!
     
  17. kelvin

    kelvin
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    :D
     
  18. EvilMudge

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    Um, the Denons are calibrated to supply close to reference level at 0dB. The Sony's are simply numbered backwards from maximum volume, whatever that may be. Well, at least my Sony was.
    Doesn't explain why the Fs1s are causing such a problem though.
     

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