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My Travels with Ioniq. Realworld feedback

Discussion in 'Hybrid, PHEV & EV Electric Cars Forum' started by Gordon @ Convergent AV, Jun 11, 2017.

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  1. gangzoom

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    By far the biggest advantage Teslas have over other EVs is range.

    Am currently in the 90kWh version and to be quite honest range anxiety is non existant. I drive as quickly on M-ways as I use to in my old 335i and in 600 miles of use have yet to end the day with less than 30% charge, and thats starting the day with 90% charge.

    My own 60kWh Tesla has been written off :(. However am now seriously considering getting the 100kWh version once the insurance settlement comes through, its £16k more expensive but with 98kWh usable that car will have the same range than my old petrol BMW which at best managed 250-300miles to a tank due to 20-25mpg :).

    Once affordable EVs gets to the same range as Teslas I think its game over for petrol cars. Having to go out of your way to find a petrol station is so much more inconvenient than plugging in your car at home.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
  2. Stupid61

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    But that assumes you have a property with sufficient access to allow you to charge a vehicle at home. Unfortunately I don't because of the road I live in. It's not possible to park closer than about ten metres from my house wall, with a public pavement in between.
     
  3. SourKraut

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    There are lampposts which are starting to appear (albeit in limited supply) which have a charge point incorporated into them -

    Ubitricity | Fully Charged
     
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  4. IronGiant

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    EV's are still a niche product, sales went up to nearly 12,000 last year but that still has to compare with 1/4 million ICE cars. The infrastructure has some catching up to do. According to zapmap there are public chargers at 4500 locations with 13008 connectors. This is reasonably encouraging:

    upload_2017-7-6_9-22-16.png

    Be interesting to see what happens when the EV Bill kicks in.
     
  5. Gordon @ Convergent AV

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    Well the problem is that it's not that simple. Much like fuel can cost £1.10 a litre at Tesco and £1.50 at a motorway services. the costs are sort of all over the place.

    In Scotland and all of Ireland (north and in the Republic) public charge points are free.
    In England and Wales there are a handful of providers. CYC Charge Your Car network who are now owned by Polar Network seem to have a large spread around the country. The other's i've come across are Charge Genie and Ecotricity (electric Highway). Ecotricity Electric Highway is the stuff you see at all the motorway services. £3.00 connection fee then 17p per kWh. So using them as an example that would be roughly £7.40 to add that amount of charge to my car. So £4.50 to add around 122 miles range. They following are the most expensive i think. CYC charger just off the M25 at reigate where its £2.50 to access then 20p per kWh which is £7.70 ( so more expensive than Ecotricity) but they have one in Colchester that looks like it's just £1.00 to access with no additional charges except possible parking charges....Charge genie's unit at Thruxton race circuit is £1.00 connection then 30p per kWh.. £8.80! then you get Polar Plus Network (users can use CYC charge points now). Polar plus charge a monthly fee of £7.85 but then most charge points have no costs althogh there are some where they specify access fees or kWh pricing. It's a bit of a mess....for me to add that amount of energy to my car at home is £1.30 so it shows you how much of a laugh these providers are having at times. So for me it's charge at home as much as possible.
     
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  6. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    So no updates here for a while. So i thought i'd share the mid week one i posted at facebook.

    iONIQ daily update; BMW edition.

    Todays travel involved a drive to Sheffield and back to see a client. As my lease is a 12000 miles a year one and i do 22-26000 miles a year i need to spread the love around and use an alternate vehicle sometimes. I decided that i’d take my wife’s BMW 3series this morning. It was a gift from an elderly relative who had to stop driving at 89 yrs old. It had been off the road for two years when i recvovered it fromt the garage it was living in. One lady owner, 52000 miles on clock. Looked like new apart from a couple wee scrapes you wouldn't notice. We are therefor quite attached to it as a family heirloom.

    I left the house at around 6.20 am and after getting to the M25 and driving for 3 miles there was a thud and the car lost all drive, warning lights all over dash. I had just pulled out in to middle lane in heavy traffic. Luckily there was enough momentum in the car for me to be able to signal left and move across and on to hard shoulder. I stopped the car and switched it off. Then tried to turn it on to see if the warning sensors would reset to let me continue. It wouldn’t start. Just turned the engine over. So i called the AA. Message logged by AA saying they would attend within 1hr as i was in vulnerable position on side of motorway. ETA by 7.35am. It was a sunny warm morning so i sat other side of barrier away from car and waited. at 7.20 the AA guy called to say he was on his way and had just driven past my location on other side of motorway so he’d need to turn around at A3 junction at Wisley. That is a very busy junction at this time of day and i can see the traffic crawling at walking pace on that side of the carriageway and it’s 3-4 miles to A3. About 10 minutes later all the traffic disappears from my wide of the road……and i realise that now the M25 is closed on my side presumably due to an accident. This could be a long wait. So i call the AA man and he tells me he’s not yet got to A3 junction but he can see that an Artic has crushed a small Clio on the other side of road and it’s closed. He eventually got to me about 8.15 ish i think.

    Car towed home. Auto gearbox is at end of life and probably needs replaced/reconditioned he thinks. Now need to decide what to do….get a Leaf or a small ICE car…..argh…..
     
  7. Stupid61

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    Fascinating! Thanks. Going to follow this up. Now to start saving for the Tesla Model 3...
     
  8. Stupid61

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    Sorry, that was @SourKraut
     
  9. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Stupid61: Go look at ZAPMAP.co.uk that and plugshare app have good maps with live charging info and pricing for them all
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2017
  10. Stupid61

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    Thanks, will do. This is all quite promising. Much appreciated.
     
  11. stevelup

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    It might be worth getting some proper diagnostics done first before writing it off. At 55k miles, a BMW auto box is barely worn in rather than at the end of it's life.

    ps. Fascinating thread - thanks for making the effort to keep it updated.
     
  12. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    AA guy seemed to think this was par for the course for BMW auto boxes. Anyway, doesn't matter. The 318i of that vintage also suffers a great bmw design flaw that means the timing chain stretches and fails. When my aunt gave us the car it was exhibiting an issue where it would randomly stall. When we looked in to that and the fact the aircon broke so that you would get scalding hot air on your feet and cold air out the main vents, we discovered that there were a multitude of errors. Cost to repair the aircon was going to be over £500 and that was just if the thing they thought was wrong was actually wrong. Cost to replace timing chain...well...it was all pretty pointless as the car, if it was working, was worth less than 1000 quid. It was bought by webuyanypieceofjunk this morning..it had actually done 69000 miles. we got it with 52000 on it 2.5yrs ago.

    We picked up my wifes new car from garage on Tuesday. She is very happy...but sad to see the BMW go.
     
  13. jfinnie

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    Quite interested in going EV for my next motor.

    I drive an old Skoda Superb at the moment with 210k on the clock... it just refuses to die for now.

    Do 112 miles a day to work and back; trying to figure out which EVs can do this comfortably in summer and winter once they've got 90k miles on the battery (looking at a 3 year lease).

    Do hyundai have any published info on the expected battery life into "old age"?
     
  14. Alan CD

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    My guess is the Ioniq is too new for that sort of info.

    However, I've read the Ioniq battery is guaranteed for a 70% charge for 8 years or 125,000 miles, if that's of any use.

    Depending on how the car is used and charge routines the usual EV battery degradation is between 2 - 5% per year, bearing in mind the degradation is not linear.
     
  15. jfinnie

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    I guess I could extrapolate it as a typical battery if I had a good handle on what the summer and winter capacities looked like on a new unit.
    Sounds like it is unlikely to last well enough.

    Hyundai IONIQ Electric Range
    New unit in the cold, 130 mile range at 55mph, 110 miles at 70mph. I wouldn't want to drive 55mph to work, so this just won't work for me at the moment. Hope Skoda can go a bit longer till there are vehicles with bigger batteries installed for sensible money.
     
  16. IronGiant

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    No chance of plugging it in at work (yet) ?
     
  17. Gordon @ Convergent AV

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    From my experience those range figures are nonsense. I do long journeys all the time and travel at 65-80 all the time on the motorway and am averaging 4.9- to 5m pkWh or around 140 miles. Say 125 to give you 15 miles spare. Driving at 55 it'd be nearer 160 and if you were wanted to drive at 55 you could find a large vehicle to drive behind at safe distance on left lane and you'd be doing nearer to 165 miles + in summer.

    Battery degradation on something like a Tesla is 5% in first 50,000 miles then the next 5% drop takes a further 150, 000 miles I believe. They have great battery management built in. Who knows about iONIQ though as is said. I have had mine now for 6 weeks and am at 4200 miles.

    It mnight not be quite there for you yet of course but what you find when you start to drive these things is that range anxiety disappears. Charging infrastructure is just going to keep getting better and the new rapid chargers that are starting to be deployed are going to be 100kW capable ones that an iONIQ will benefit from as it can charge at faster rates with these. For me that'll likely mean that whereas now i have time to get coffee and answer a couple of emails before i unplug at a motorway services (if i want to charge up to 94%) i'll probably not have time for the email in future.

    The 200m+ Leaf is out in Spetember and probably shipping units in January. So if the Superb can hold out a little longer you may find that you have at least one EV option quite soon
     
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  18. Alan CD

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    The Ioniq uses lithium polymer batteries which are capable of 100kW fast charge. The Ioniq is the only EV that uses this type of battery.

    However, fast charging still stresses the batteries, but I've read that fast charging the Ioniq twice a week is acceptable.
     
  19. gangzoom

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    The Kia Sol EV uses the same battery, the packs are supplied by LG, VAG are reported to be asking LG to supply them with the same packs. However energy density is still not as good as what Tesla is achieving with their packs.

    The only EVs capable of charging at anything near 100KW in the real world is a Tesla S/X. In fact rumours are the Tesla Superchargerc can run at 145KW but local power grid restraints in the real world limit the charge rate to just below 120KW.

    I was seeing 110KW at the Northampton Supercharger recently, and that was with 2 other Teslas charging at the same time. I never saw more than 40KW when using Ecotricity chargers in the Leaf.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    I don't think you can put an "amount per week" limit on rapid charging. If you do 180 miles a week and charge twice on a Rapid that will be much worse for battery degradation compared to twice in a week when you do 600 miles. I'm at 4200 miles and i think i've used Rapid charging about 12 times in those 6 weeks. So twice a week or once every 350 miles. I have not charged to 94% every time on the rapids though. Couple of times it was just a 15 minute job to get enough in for comfortable space to get home for charging overnight.
     
  21. Gordon @ Convergent AV

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    I am on a long journey up country today. so expect updates
     
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  22. Gordon @ Convergent AV

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    iONIQ Update: Scottish Road trip.

    So I left to see clients up in Sheffield and onwards to Scotland this morning. Last night however i discovered that my Polar Plus RFID card would not work on the Charge Scotland Network. After a bit of a panic i got some feedback on the UK EV Facebook group that the CYC app would get them going (if you were lucky) and that you could possibly get them to add the Polar RFID card to the network temporarily. I called them this morning when i had my first stop at 8.15am and they confirmed they should be able to remotely start a charge session even if the App failed. (although i hear stories that even that doesn’t work sometimes). Anyway, I left at 6.30 this morning and headed north up M1 via M25. Looking at the Plugshare and Zapmap apps i could see that the services i actually wanted to stop at were out of action as regards CCS chargers so I stopped earlier than planned at Newport Pagnel and had no problem getting Electric Highway CCS to top car up while i went to get breakfast. Back in car and i had enough to get to clients and have 30 miles range left. Super!

    I texted client to see if i could plug car in at his and answer was yes. Double Super!

    Arrived for what should have been a 2hr job and plugged car in to external 13amp socket in his garden. Five and a half hours later i left. So i actually spent two hours doing what i was being paid for and three hours fixing all the other problems to get the chaps system in a a state where i could actually do what i was there for. I left pretty exhausted and just wanted to get on my way. My job in Leeds was cancelled by client earlier in day so i had hoped to perhaps make it all the way to Edinburgh tonight. It wasn't to be though. When i unplugged my car and jumped in to drive off it was still reading 30miles range. I had forgotten to turn off the off peak charge timer! Argh!!!!!!!

    So quick look at zap map again and i could see two free chargers each of which was around 5 miles away. So i set off to the first at a large shopping centre. Arrived in 12 minutes and there was an i3 plugged in with no one in it. Jumped out to look at this charge point as i’d not seen one like it. No need for rfid or anything, just plug in and press go. It was saying that the i3 had been charging for 26 minutes and was at 95% charge. I expected it to stop charging any second so prepared my car for charging and then had some water and got my laptop out. 10 minutes later it was at 99%. At this point I again presumed it would stop at 100% very soon….and i was surprised that BMW allow the thing to rapid charge to full!. Anyway, 10 minutes later it’s still at 99% at which point i’d had enough. So i stopped the charge session and unplugged the thing and put the covers on its sockets. Moved connector to mine and went to start session. All looked good but about 2 seconds after the connector locked and it started it’s tests the session was ended with a Charger Fault warning. I went to the car and it had, yet again, the Quick Charge Fault message on the LCD display. Previously i had found that turning the car on and off and clearing the message and repeating this till the message stopped coming back would allow the charger to work properly. So i did that and tried again. Same issue. I did this about 5 times. 20 minutes later and still not working i plugged the Type 2 cable in to see if the car would actually charge at all. It worked perfectly. So i tried CCS again…and it failed….again. So i cleared the fault code on car and drove to the other charge point 5 miles away. The i3 was still sitting there with no one in it and it had probably been 25-30 minutes since i’d stopped the charge on it. I was in too much of a rush to leave a note. Plugging a car in to a Rapid Charger and going off shopping for 1hr 15 minutes is spectacularly selfish. If the person had actually been at the car when i arrived i'd have asked them how long they would have been but they were not there and there was no contact note in car. I suspect they will not notice miss the extra 0.1 percent charge they didn't get.

    Ten minutes later and i’m at the other charger and it works perfectly. Had some more water and pastries the client had given me for the road and answered the days emails after booking a late room at a Holiday Inn in Newcastle. Back in car and booted it up to Scotch Corner. Cruising at 80 in fast flowing traffic. Some sections at 50mph in roadworks. Plugged in to charge and went to get Burger King for dinner. Ate it, cleaned myself up and stopped charge early and headed up A1M to hotel. Have 60 mile range in morning and know where there are a couple more free rapids to try on way up to Scotland tomorrow morning. Long and slightly stressful day. My own fault for not turning off the timed charger in the car as that simple mistake on my part probably added about 1hr 15 to my journey time.

    Plan for tomorrow is to fill up around Morpeth and then stop at the first charger i can in Scotland to test if i can get it to work as i know i can’t charge at the morning customers or the afternoon ones. Think i’ll leave early!

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    +5
     
  23. Gordon @ Convergent AV

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    On the road again. Just got here in time. Completely empty car park in rural area called something like northumberlandia. Just plugged in around 6.35am and someone in a Leaf turned up. Saw me and turned around and left.

    Evening Edit: Got to Dunbar in morning around 9.00 am and tried charger beside Asda there. Plugshare or Zapmap said it was a CYC charger that you could use your Polar Plus RFID at. It wasn't...it was a CYC post run by Charge Place Scotland. My card was rejected. It gave option to validate with Phone so i tried that and loaded CYC app and tried to initiate charge. Bingo...25 mins later and we're at 94% again and after nipping over to Asda for provisions while charging i was on my way to see client.

    Saw my morning customer then over to another on outskirts of Edinburgh in afternoon. Still at something like 70 miles range. So i head over to check in to my airBNB then go out to get dinner and try the nearest Rapid Charger to my base for the next few days. That charger is Forth Bridge Visitor Centre. I turn up and plug in and this one has no option for Phone validation, only RFID. So i call the help line and speak to someone at CYC. They say that they will try to get it started their end. 10 seconds later they come back with info that they cannot communicate with the charge point so it must be broken and that i should go and find an alternate point somewhere else. useful.....I didn't push them to see if they could not just register my Polat RFID card on the network as i had enough for all tomorrows jobs. As it happens though i will be able to plug in and charge at both jobs tomorrow morning and afternoon so i don't even need to visit a charge point. Same for friday i think and if i can park my car outside my airbnb on Saturday evening i can probably charge it here off a socket and have ebough to get me down to Cumbria for Sunday morning.

    [​IMG]
     
  24. gangzoom

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    @Gordon @ Convergent AV I salute your bravery in doing these kind of trips in a limited range EV and a reliance on public charging. The only one time I tried to use my Leaf for a work trip I nearly had to abandon the meeting due to a public charger been out of action!!

    I hope when the winter comes and range/charging speed drops your still find the Ioniq adequate.
     
  25. Alan CD

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    This is very useful info from Gordon, especially sagas concerning long distance trips.

    My impression is that current EVs are not yet suitable for long distance travel and this even applies to the next generation EVs capable of real-time 200 mile range. In addition public charging appears to be a bit hit-and-miss and not yet ready for the smooth transfer from ICE to EV.

    Of course the above comments do not apply to expensive top of the range EVs.
     
  26. IronGiant

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    What you could do Alan is buy 4 Ioniqs and have them corralled at strategic staging posts like the Pony Express used to do to cross America. One in York, one in Northampton and two at Nottingham should do you. (Or Tibshelf Services on the M1 if you want almost exactly halfway)
     
  27. Alan CD

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    What a bloody good idea, after all 4 Ioniqs equals the price of 1 Tesla.

    ...I'll just go and check my finances :D
     
  28. outoftheknow

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    The words lithium polymer always intrigue me. 99.9% of the time even now it means the lithium ion battery is in a soft polymer skin. That is not a true lithium polymer battery which means the whole battery is a soft polymer. These true lithium polymer batteries offer wonderful things over lithium ion batteries.

    If the true lithium polymers are in use in large numbers cars I would be surprised. The tech is still pretty expensive and small scale.

    Great if they are though :)
     
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  29. jfinnie

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    I wasn't aware of the Leaf, that might be a good option. The Superb shows no sign of giving up any time soon, has been a great motor for no money.

    Our local Hyundai garage haven't wanted to commit anything yet on winter runtimes etc, and as you say the question around the longevity will to a large extent depend on how much of a good job they've done on the battery management. We only have one charge point between the office and home, though might be interesting to see if there could be a way to get a chargepoint put into our carpark.

    Tantalising!
     
  30. dejongj

    dejongj
    Distinguished Member

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    Fascinating the read the updates. Although I'm getting more anxiety than relieve reading about the real world challenges. If that was my wife's car I would have some serious headache :)

    Regardless, fascinating to read and I'll continue with interest.
     

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