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My Sony HS50

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by stuthemong, Dec 31, 2004.

  1. stuthemong

    stuthemong
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    You can tell by the fact that i am still up i have had fun today :)

    I will put my thoughts down tomorrow when i get up, but overall very impressed - she's a keeper!

    Stu

    dont know what all the winging about brightness was???
     
  2. Ekko Star

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    Hi stu, look forward to hearing your review, mine should be with me by the 14th !
     
  3. Sporran

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    totally agree with you Stu.

    Just this minute finished watching the 4 alien films and very tired now lmao. No doubt will have a ticking off tomorrow from neighbours but was worth it lol.

    Only thing i have noticed though and it certainly does not distract from what is an excellent machine, on films when it goes quiet and the picture changes you can hear a slight mechanical clicking from the unit. From what i have read on here that must be the Iris?
     
  4. UrbanT

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    Congrats on your purchases guys :thumbsup:
     
  5. flamingoboo

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    congratluations stu, I look forward to reading your review soon.
     
  6. inzaman

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    Wow :eek: that is some marathon viewing, especially considering the time of the post :D
     
  7. masterpasser

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    Well I have my pj set up and immediately am disappointed with just how dim this projector is .
    OK this is my first pj , so I have nothing to gauge by , but for me its too dim.
    I also am running HD via the HDMI input - Resolution is disappointing for 1080i
    What is noticeable is how revealing the machine is in terms of broadcast material -Unfortunately not all transmissions are formatted in HD here in Australia .
    I feel I'm watching through a haze -its just not sharp.
    I recall looking at the Mitsubishi HC2000 a few months ago . that blew me away.
    Colour is in my face , I mean its almost primary.
    Brilliant Reds ,Blues and Yellows -Just not natural. Ala Dick Tracey!!!!!!!!!!
    I've adjusted to other members AVIA recommendations but still colour is extreme.
    Screen door non existant , nor is VB .
    No clicking from auto Iris.
    19 hours burned on the bulb -so was a demo. Not that worried about that.
    I dont have a screen yet , just projecting onto a pale cream wall - totally
    blacked out room though .
    Next move I suppose is to get this ARIA and calibrate myself.
    Have noticed eyes hurt at end of session ?
     
  8. Craig Armstrong

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    Does projecting onto a pale cream wall mean that other people's AVIA recommendations are not going to work as well? (I don't know, just a little old newbie :D ) I've just bought the DVE calibration DVD for £13 off the AV Forums - it sounds like you may benefit from a small additional outlay?
     
  9. UrbanT

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    Masterpasser, the two things I have found are:
    a) the HS50 has taken me more time than any other projector I've tested, to set up correctly
    b) that I set up my projector by eye, rather than by AVIA or DVE. This is simply because I didn't like the settings AVIA or DVE gave me.

    Hopefully having a good fiddle will help your settings :)
     
  10. xaser1066

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    Hi Stu, i should be getting mine from ben very soon (next on the list), look forward to hearing your thoughs.

    What courier did yours arrive with (it appeared to be next day service)?

    Cheers, Jason.
     
  11. stuthemong

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    right. xasser, citylink, and they delivered to the wrong entrance, and a member of catering staff took it to Plodge - could have been interesting if it wasnt protected in a black bin bag - why do delivery staff always do such stupid things?

    Sporran - awesome - i thought i had passed my bedtime, you win hands down.

    Plus points in order of discovery ;)

    Great packaging. Was a bit of a labyrinth to get the thing out and from a few creases in the cardbaord i dont think i was the only one to struggle getting it out (Benjis pixel check had already rampaged through the box) - so should get to most people alright

    BIG MACHINE :D

    Lovely remote came with batteries, and is very usefull - more to come in prose.

    Quiet - ahhhhh, even when the fan spins up to 'loud' mode on high lamp, its still good. I'm collecting a wealth of toys from Queit PC today, so when i have nuked a couple of fans in my system, and lowered ambient noise in the room, i can give you more info.

    Ease of initial setup. I have not had a proj, with optical lens shift and so much zoom before, it is ACE. 2 secs, any picture is setup :)

    Bad points.

    Feel of lens shift/optical assembly Althogh the lens shift is awesome, it feels to light, and im certain the left right wheel puts the picture the wrong way! Zooming is difficult with one hand, and you can easily bend (well flex) the entire optical assembly if you push it - doesnt feel too expensive there, but it all seems to do the job, and hopeully when i have it setup i will not have to play.

    Very short mains wire I just wish manufacturers would give us something like 3M to play with, rather than 1.2 or whatever this is, youll need an ext. cable unless you are very lucky, which is boooooo.

    I thought it was very dim on initial operation, though this was in direct sunlight, no curtains - so not too surprising really!

    ___________________________________________________________

    I could go on about how I initially wasnt overawed with light output etc.. but its not worth it, they were initial opinions that have faded. When it was dark outside i was able to properly test the proj. we'll go from here!

    One thing i will mention, is that when light was falling (akin to most of you guys shutting curtains i would imagine) It was so nice to have the quick setup buttons on remote. Hit dynamic, and boom, there is a picture - it is SUCH a useful feature having these settings on remote for guys like me, with no real light control - a doddle to get a totally watchable picture without running around lots of menus.

    Equip: HTPC running native via VGA. Didnt 1x1 pixel map, merely let the proj APA - looked fine - ill get onto tweaking soon, last night, i just wanted to watch!!! Screen is by far the weakest link , a bedsheet held taught with the aid of duct tape ;) between my floorstanding speakers. awesome. I didnt want to buy material until i knew how bigger screen i wanted. now i know ;) presently, i guess 80" diag screen

    1x screen width away - any further back, and whats the point, ill buy a big TV ;)

    _____________________________________________


    I decided to watch the 1 DVD i had eaily to hand pearl harbour - awful film, cool sound, cool effects, lots of blue skys, lots of dark scenes - ill have to hunt 5th element down next :)

    Out of the box the proj came with a setting called colour temp 'low' - that went to 'high' ASAP as i found the reds very overpowering, this at least tamed them, but still the colours were not right though totally watchable, i fear massive tweaking is afoot, but judging by the options on hand, it should be possible to get great colour balance.

    As the film ploughed on, and i was tweaking less and less with the remote, i settled for cinema mode, lamp low, bright/contrast around default. i became more and more enamoured towards the projector.

    At one point in the film there was a black pause, then a fullscreen white flash. My eyes blinked - i cant see how anyone can call this projector dim, OK in cineama mode you have to watch in total darkness, but that is the whole point. How else can you get massive contrast with ambient light? Your eyes will adjust accordingly if you let them, and so long as you dont keep switching to dynamic, you dont realise it is dim. I also left the lamp on low, as although high lamp did make the image brighter, it was not necessary on my screen (that incidentally lets about 1/2 the light straight through anyway!)

    Through the swathes of brilliant blue sky i did not notice any FPN, only some faint horizontal line scanning some of the time (but i am pretty sure that is to do with my 10M VGA cable, or not quite perfect timings in signal timing) - I will try to remedy this, but 1280x720 over 10m of cheap VGA isnt exactly ideal, it will do for now.

    One silly, really projector geeky joke coming. At one stage in the film, in a dark scene when a chap comes to a door, i was certain i had seen horric VB, which actually turned out to be SD. Literally. In the film you look through a screen door in an american house, which made the chap look like he was covered in Vertical Banding. I thought it was funny and confused me for a sec, ill shutup now :D

    You can actually see the iris working sometimes i think, some scenes look more milky than others, but that could even be soucre, i don't know the film well enough. Certainly though at many points throughout the film the black displayed could not have been any blacker IMO. For example black coats in scene, and my favourite was looking at peoples pupils, BLACK. This was really cool.

    I watched the whole film, and was increasingly happy with the Hs50 - so i thought i would open her up, and see what she can do!

    I zoomed all the way out, so i was only projecting the middle 1/2 of the image on screen (so i had massive spillage, image was on ceiling, floor, walls (just), and screen. So now my screen image would have to be a solid 120". I was very surprised to find the image still plenty bright enough for the added fun it gives (i love big screens). This was still with the lamp on low - i forgot to pump it up to high. I will be going for a big assed screen now, probably with 1.3 gain or so, hopefully i can get 120" or so, but my room is not going to give it to me easily, i shall have to be exceedingly cunning.......

    I could see SD from <1x width, on 1X width the effect seemed to drop off rapidly for me, so i sat there. From 1x width SD would still become apparent, in bright scenes for example. Does this detract sufficently to make me sit back, and not get totally involved in the film? HELL NO. Screens need to be big. Fact.

    The one thing that did annoy me somewhat, was i found the image slightly soft for my liking. I was using WMP 10 to play the DVD, as i broke zoomplayer - i cant work out what is going wrong, but it works on 2 monitors (on my AGP card), but wont work on the 3rd monitor , or proj (on PCI card) - this meant no zoomplayer, and no tweaking via FFD. I can accept the image as is, but would like to play with my DVD playback a bit more, to try to sqeeze a bit more definition out of it. I couldn't say that i felt the image was 3D at any point in the movie really, which is something i have only really noticed on a 777. However, that was playing HD, so i thought it only fair to visit microsoft.com and find some trailers......

    :)

    :clap:

    WMV HD looked very promising. the T2 trailer was funny, the actual movie itself, looked just like the DVD to me (well i was comparing sharpness to pearl harbour here, couldnt see any detail over and above what i would expect the normal T2 disk to have), but the trailer was interspersed with "buy T2 box now....." adverts, and these had HUGE punch, and were clearly using all 720p. nice.

    I downloaded the 'discoverers' awful waste of 100 meg d/l apart from the opening 10 secs, where this massive telescope spins around. I wouldnt say it was there yet, and i think i can tweak more, but that 3-4 secs of movement looked stunning. I would have to call it 2.5D, as it certainly had a hell of a lot of something the DVD didnt.

    Overall i very happy. Suffering from rainbows, this was my best shot at something decent i thought in my range - i think i hit. LCD is great because you can sit close, real close, and get no strain - this is important to me. The qietness of the projector, is important also, and gets 10/10 on this front, hoping for any more is greedy!

    I guess for some it will not be bright enough, you guys go buy DLP's you can keep them for now.

    For some semi-reference - proj's i have seen recently are
    H30
    Z2
    777
    7205
    5xx5 (cant remember the numbers infocus screenplay)
    sim2 domino
    and a few others

    I will be tweaking over the next few weeks, and will off updates if i find anything usefull out - until then, bring on the DVD's and late nights. Now im cross that daylight hours are increasing - i fear i shall becomre nocturnal.

    Stu

    if you ahve any direct questions, please fire away
     
  12. xaser1066

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    Hi Stu, excellent review, just what i wanted to hear!

    You are right with the big screen/close viewing distance, i can't see the point of watching a 100" screen from 20' back may as well watch a 32" TV from 8' back!

    Cheers, Jason.
     
  13. windfall

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    Hi Chaps

    Dunno if you saw my pics of my HS50, but you can take a look at some pics of the image from iRobot and some sky sports - these pics were taken one afternoon with curtains closed, the lounge door was open and there was a lot of ambient light in the room.

    http://photobucket.com/albums/v622/tonetrainer/

    Hope this helps in your decision making!

    Cheers

    Tone
     
  14. kasumi

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    Picked up my HS50 on thursday late. Just put together a Beamax 16:9 fixed screen for it with crap instructions & lost my rag with the wall brackets (new house wall syndrome) so hopefully get the Sony running tomorrow :)

    Seen it in action at Benji's on collection and was suitably impressed there & then out of the box!
     
  15. stuthemong

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    welli watched Pi last night - thought id try something different.

    The movie is black and white, and is extremely contrasty, a hell of a lot of full blacks, and a hell of a lot of full whites.

    The hs50 dealt with it fine. The blacks do not feel velvety black in this movie, quite far from it in fact, but still black enough, only just though to maintain a hi-end feel, sometimes it did drop the ball IMO. Still i am amazed by worries over brightness of this thing. At one point in the movie the whole screen goes black (well it did this lots, but this one point!) to show a computeer console. the console was literally a ">" with a flashing square block. This block is about 3"x3" on my screen, and when it flashed you could see the room light up.

    I think the best way to describe the black is a soft glow. You can see the screen is brighter than anything else in teh room when pure black is displayed, but the screen alone shows any sign of light. As soon as any other detail comes on screen, the >, or flashing block suddenly it lights up the room, so you can see your legs.

    Watched T2, and discoverers and dolphins WMVHD's again and again, certainly some WMVHD material needs to be purchased, though the colour banding WMVHD inherantlyu has is annoying - why couldnt they have put a few more bits of coupkr info in there!!! Shows real promise. I think 1080i is going to be STUNNING - this is 90% of the way there, but ill need a longer source to get a better idea

    also, it seems to me that putting the lamp on high boosts contrast. I cannot see teh black level increase in all honestly, but the bright ares get brighter - so on a bigger screen cinema black with high lamp is going to be awesome.

    More films tonight methinks. I gotta install my rear speakers now :)

    Happy new year you guys - i hope my ramblings dont bore too many of you !

    Still throughly impressed - highly recommended
     
  16. xaser1066

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    Good pictures Tone. A bit off topic but I like the look of your decking - great for late parties, BBQ's etc.
    Cheers, Jason.
     
  17. masterpasser

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    I have just played a DVD of the 2003 world rugby cup final - Now on my tv Phillips pixel plus , it is absolutely perfect.HDTV standard recording.
    I expected an equivalent quality through my pj.
    But no - close ups are fine , but distant resolution is blurred.
    What I cant understand is why the format is only 575 and not 1080 ?
     
  18. UrbanT

    UrbanT
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    Can you just explain further, is this an actual HDTV recording, or are you saying is of the standard of HDTV, but just a normal recording?

    What DVD player are you using, and which connection?
     
  19. xxalxx

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    You must have been the person getting the demo in the room, whilst i was in the other part of the shop picking up a panny 700. :thumbsup:
     
  20. drummerjohn

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    I saw the HS50 in action yesterday thanks to UrbanT. UrbanT generously allowed myself and a colleague to come round and take a gander.

    I have an ageing Sony 10HT (1366x768, 300:1 contrast) - have been very happy with picture detail and the way it handles feeds. However, contrast ratio is poor on a 10HT.

    The HS50 smacked us in the face with its outstanding black levels.

    We went through a range of discs with shadows and contrasts and I was bowled over. I saw detail I had never seen before due to the high contrats ratio.

    Vertical banding could not be seen - trust me, we looked hard.

    Brightness - we had no issues.

    HDMI feed was used initially but found the VGA to be better (marginal to be honest) due to 1:1 pixel mapping. VGA also meant the Sony wasn't cutting off pixels as it does with HDMI.

    I want one. My colleague wants one.

    Thanks again to UrbanT for allowing us to view his Sony HS50 in his lovely Home Theatre room. :thumbsup:
     
  21. stuthemong

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    yeah, but Urban T has a theater room and a half!

    In fact, im not sure i even want him posting in my thread. sunning around with sig 805's BAH!

    :)

    some of that nice and cheap 1.3 gain stuff from a-b deals in US ordered. Going for 90-100" i think - i cant realistically get a bigger screen in my room - cant wait to try it out on a proper screen (i.e. one that doesnt let 50% of light striaght through it!!!)

    used it today for some big screen online poker - looked great, didnt help me win :( - It would appear that the HS50 cant do everytihng then!

    Stu

    now. what shall i watch tonight????


    oh, BTW, some gooides from Quiet PC went in today, so lets see if the proj is that quiet afterall!! Most annoyed, as now my Q-Technologies PSU is the loudest component. grrr. i bought that as silent.
     
  22. UrbanT

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    Thanks John :thumbsup: and Stu :laugh:

    I'm pleased to report that VGA doesn't cut any pixels off. I'm assuming John is referring to the Start button on the windows Taskbar. I figured out later it didn't look right because I had X-Large Fonts activated. When put back to normal, and the picture centred correctly on the screen, it was perfect :smashin:

    I have been using the VGA connection all day today, and getting the picture exactly how you want it is slightly harder, because you lose some of the menu options available in HDMI. However, the tweaking has finished, and I'm delighted in the result. I'll order my own VGA cable during the week and use this until the overscan issue is sorted, at which point I will go back to HDMI for no other reason that convenience.

    John, have you mentioned your desires to the missus yet? ;)
     
  23. stuthemong

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    Urban,

    i read over somewhere on AVSforums in their tweak thread, about settings they found helpful to get them on the road to calibrating properly. Can i ask if you used that as a starting point, or how else you have tweaked.

    I am pretty much stuck on out the box, but dont know where to turn really re-tweaking!

    Yours Stu
     
  24. UrbanT

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    Hi Stu, I probably run a bit against the grain here, but I've tried AVIA, DVE etc in the past, and have never been happy with the result.

    I now do everything by eye. I run through the same few scenes from a couple of films (LOTR ROTK EE, AOTC and FATF2), and try and find a starting point I'm happy with, which I save to User 1. Then I change one aspect, for example, no gamma, to gamma 1, and save this on User 2. Then flick between them whilst watching the same scenes, to see the effect. Takes a few hours but I end up with a picture I'm happy watching. Depending how you connect yours, will chnage the amount of menu options you have available.

    How are you connecting, and what are your current settings?
     
  25. drummerjohn

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    UrbanT - oops, edited my post - I put "was" instead of "wasn't".

    Well I told my missus how good it was and she was gutted that 4 years ago we spent £4000 on a projector that is now outshone by a projector for £1700. I watched the scenes again on my projector. The detail isn't that much greater in general, but then I didn't expect it to be. What really flicked my switch is the HS50 show detail where it coonts ie the dark scenes we all dread in films as LCD owners.

    As much as I want one I will have to wait. I have an extension to build and a family that want to go to Florida. BAH
     
  26. windfall

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    Yeah something we put together early Nov. We are please with it!


    Tone
     
  27. stuthemong

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    urban T. VGA, default settings pretty much

    colour medium, other thsn thst cinema, lamp low, thats it. Could i ask where you have got to now, and see if that changes things?

    Stu
     
  28. JohnS

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    As some of you may have noticed in a previous thread I hadn't found the HS50 to be much of an improvement from my tweaked HS10 fed from HTPC.

    I've been tweaking my HS50 settings, initially just with Avia but I found a much larger difference by following the AVS thread where the guy changed the gain and bias settings following a smart III calibration.

    I made a note of my initial settings and compared to his and altered mine by the same percentage difference as he used. After making the changes I reset the contrast and brightness partly with Avia and partly by eye ( the contrast especially) and I think its made a huge improvement. Finally I think the potential of the HS50 is showing through, as well as dark blacks I feal that these changes have given the colours much more punch or better saturation, it seems to have raised the contrast ratio so the whole image seems much more 3D like.

    I now much more pleased witth the upgrade than just an improvment in noise levels.
     
  29. Craig Armstrong

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    John, I've had a look for the thread and found a 117 page "official" HS50 thread on AVS, heavy going! Am I looking in the right place?
     
  30. stuthemong

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    Craig,

    I think John is referrring to this page
    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=485063&pagenumber=3

    on the tweak thread.

    John john john,

    I'm all ears. I have read that thread a few times, and activated my service/factory menu.

    EDIT WAS BEING STUPID!!! offending material removed ;)

    I have gone to factory mode.

    set my picture mode to USER3
    RCP off
    gamma off
    color temp CUSTOM 3
    lamp low
    iris auto

    now I go down to W/B CUSTOM 3
    and get gain: 128 43 57
    bias 134 128 131

    Now i understand that if i change these it will just change my custom 3 WB? I dont want to put anything else off! What is it that you think it should be changed to judging by what you have read/understood.

    If you look custom1 = high custom2=middle custom3=low so i figure there is no point actually changing our presets, just our customs, and then selecting them in custom picture modes.

    yours,

    stu
     

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