My NEC HT1100

theritz

Active Member
Jeez Ad.................. a girlfriend.............

Girlfriend, Projector.........
Girlfriend, Projector.........
Girlfriend, Projector.........
Girlfriend, Projector.........
Girlfriend, Projector.........
Girlfriend, Projector.........
Girlfriend, Projector.........
Girlfriend, Projector.........
Girlfriend, Projector.........

Nope, Can't make my mind up.........................


Any chance you'd post a screenshot or two to assist the decision process ??

Have you calibrated her with colorfacts yet ????????



Go on........ tell us about the HT1100....... either of them, we aren't too fussy.......................


:D



Sean.
 
Q

Quatermass

Guest
Could you have not put on one of those (awful) “chick movies” in the pretence of keeping the gf happy whilst secretly tweaking the pj? :D

I always had the impression that NEC didn’t target the HT market with these projectors and kept their intended use rather vague but then I’m probably not paying enough attention! :)
 

keyser

Standard Member
I´ve read that the HT1100 suffers more than most DLP´s from temporal dithering. How bad is it on slow vertical pans with PAL material (or NTSC in 48hz mode if the HT1100 has that option)?
 

keyser

Standard Member
The picture´s in that guide are a bit misleading, because it´s probably hard to get a picture of the phenomenon. But it´s a VERY obvious artifact. Next time I watch a movie (this weekend), I´ll post a scene where it´s good to see it, because there are lots of scenes in all movies where temporal dithering is very obvious. Whenever there is a slowish horizontal pan, then it´s obvious. It kinda looks like the edges of objects become crawly(dithering) and smear.

A bit of topic here, but from looking at projector artifacts, I find one even more bothering than temporal dithering. It´s studdering(I know it´s in the source, not the PJ). PAL and 48hz NTSC looks smoother, but it´s still VERY studdery. I can´t figure out why Philips are the only ones fighting this with intermediate frame technology, and they aren´t even using that in their projectors. Vertical pans with stuff like text I think looks really bad. Check out the demo here:

http://www.trimensiontech.com/index.php?page=downloads.html
 

buns

Banned
So is that to suggest that it will look like noise on coloured edges? I'll look, but nothing jumped out at me last night

what is studdering? Liked stutter? Judder?

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gandley

Novice Member
dont look for temporal dithering, once you do see it it will realy anouy

it also can look like posterization, or that clay face thingy but it is god awfull and i havent seen a dlp that dosent have it. some seem worse than others
 

buns

Banned
ok, well i wont look! Suffice to say that there was nothing glaringly annoying last night..... so you'd likely say im quite happy with it thus far!

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Peter Parker

Distinguished Member
I don't notice the dithering unless I'm up close to the screen.

A good place to see it is in Avias needle pulse tests - the darker of the black bars has mosquito noise when it's trying to render the the grey but flicking on the mirrors to raise the level to just above black. From normal seating distance, it looks like a very dark grey though.

Looking forward tou your CIE charts and greyscales when you're through calibrating it. :)

Gary.
 

RTFM

Novice Member
Originally posted by keyser
I´ve read that the HT1100 suffers more than most DLP´s from temporal dithering. How bad is it on slow vertical pans with PAL material (or NTSC in 48hz mode if the HT1100 has that option)?
Keyser,

Sorry to be pedantic but when a camera moves horizontally it is called a pan and when it moves vertically it is called a tilt.
Having been a film camera operator in a past life I am a bit anal about such things.

Whilst we are on the subject of temporal dithering, bear in mind a lot of artifacts we see on our projectors are actually there on the original film material. For example as a camera operator, if you had a panning shot across a static subject, if you panned the camera too fast you would get the so called skipping effect.
Since the earliest days of motion pictures quite a number of side effects, such as the stroboscopic effect caused by by rotating objects such as wagon wheels, airplane propellers etc have been investigated.
The skipping effect can be explained as follows: during the panning of the camera in a static setting, a certain displacement of objects takes place on the film from frame to frame. When the film is viewed in projection, this displacement, as it appears on the screen, also constitutes a displacement on the retina of the viewers eye. The viewing cells on the retina are not directly adjacent to each other but approx 7.14 minutes of the arc apart.
If, therefore, an object viewed on the screen during a panning shot is displaced more than can be sensed in the above angle on the retina, it causes skipping of the viewing cells, which in turn disrupts the continuity or the panning motion.
Here's an example: Camera speed 24 fps, 50 mm lens, a 90 degree pan should take 23 seconds to avoid skipping.
 

ntslik

Novice Member
Gandley

I see you are now PJ'less, well we can't be having that will spend all day tmorrow tracking the answers you wanted and let you know, byt he way where did you get you NAD hifi from
 

keyser

Standard Member
RTFM,
Thanks for correcting me. I meant to say horizontal, I´ve edited my post. English isn´t my first language so give me some slack:)

The temporal dithering I´m seeing is a DLP artifact, it has nothing to do with the source. I can see it on animated DVD´s and console gaming, on everything. It isn´t there on other type´s of displays.

I also notice SLIGHT posturizing. Most noticable on something like a blue sky where there are very smooth gradients. It´s even more noticable when the picture fades into or out of such an image. But I don´t know whether that is the projector or just because DVD is only 8 bit colour. I don´t notice this on a CRT TV, but then again they are so much smaller I don´t know if it would be noticable.
 

buns

Banned
RTFM,

nice post! Clearly you know your stuff!

As i said before, without really looking, I havent noticed any of these effects in normal viewing. That said i dont have any other dlp's to compare to. As suggested though, I am nooooo way going to go looking! :D

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gandley

Novice Member
Hi neil,

got my nad stuff of afriend who bought and then decided he was gonna get some TAG stuff instead, so i had it from him at a good price.

s300 amp
s500 cd
s400 rds tuner all for £2000
 
Q

Quatermass

Guest
Originally posted by buns
The HT1100 is definitely for cinema use...... the name suggests it
I guess that is a bit of a giveaway…....unless of course it really stands for Highly Tweakable :D
 

buns

Banned
lol well then the fact that the box says 'home cinema projector' clears all doubts! :D

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RTFM

Novice Member
Originally posted by buns
RTFM,

nice post! Clearly you know your stuff!

As i said before, without really looking, I havent noticed any of these effects in normal viewing. That said i dont have any other dlp's to compare to. As suggested though, I am nooooo way going to go looking! :D

Ad,

I think most people would not see most of the projector artifacts we discuss here, but if you go looking for trouble, you're going to find it with any of the current projector technologies. Especially if you go right up to the screen. I think it best to judge the projector performance from a normal viewing distance, say 1.5x to 2x screen width
I'm very critical of picture quality owing to my background working on films but I can still watch a good movie on a DLP projector and forget about all the artifacts, that is until I see a shot out of focus or a badly lit scene. :)
 

buns

Banned
:D

Well at least with the actual filming issues im totally ignorant so know none the better!

It looks like im going to be sat at very close viewing ratio..... the only way im going to fit it into the room! Im going to have a 7.5 foot screen from 9 feet viewing! :eek: lets hope that doesnt make these artefacts too visible!

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RTFM

Novice Member
Originally posted by buns
:D

Well at least with the actual filming issues im totally ignorant so know none the better!

It looks like im going to be sat at very close viewing ratio..... the only way im going to fit it into the room! Im going to have a 7.5 foot screen from 9 feet viewing! :eek: lets hope that doesnt make these artefacts too visible!

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You may have to watch your films through the wrong end of a pair of binoculars :D
 

buns

Banned
:D if i wear my glasses back to front, does hat do the same trick!? :D

on a plus side.... making a harkness hall based screen looks like it could come out at little more than £50..... sounds alot less hassle than my current approach with icestorm

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