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My main speakers go low...do I need a sub?

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by Family Guy, Aug 4, 2003.

  1. Family Guy

    Family Guy
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    Do I need a Subwoofer?:confused:

    I've been evaluating a Rel Q200 for the past 10 days. I have until tomorrow really to decide if I'm gonna keep it or give it back, but my story goes like this...

    With the speakers set to large and the sub set to "NO" in the set up menu on my Marantz SR5300, the Mission 774's push air down to about 23hz using the LFE low frequency sweep from avia and a SPL metre. The speakers are set to 75db and the volume level is set to 0.

    Changing the set up Main speakers "SMALL" and sub to "YES", the REL pushes air down to about 21hz - with defanite movement on the SPL down at those depths on both the speakers and the sub.

    Now, there was no audible sound after abote 31hz on both tests but as I said, air was defanitly being moved. The question is, do I need a subwoofer if my mains go down that low...?
    Could I spend the money on a new Pioneer 912 and sell some lucky bugger my 3 month old Marantz 5300...?

    Some help please ladies and gents...
     
  2. Ian J

    Ian J
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    The answer is very simple. If you don't watch action films then you won't need a subwoofer. If you do watch action films you will have already tried out some of the more juicy bits with and without woofer so you will already know the answer.

    You've enough subwoofers in your time to know the sound that you like. :D
     
  3. Family Guy

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    Funny enough, that's actually not true...I've only ever owned 3 subs in 10 years. A REL QBass, A REL Storm and another Q Bass. It's finding one that matches with my mains that I'm having trouble with...

    I saw T3 in a THX approved theatre on Friday and wouldn't mind one of what they were using...:eek:
     
  4. Ian J

    Ian J
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    I'm not that far ahead with a Q Bass, your old Storm, another Storm and my current SVS but life for me is so much easier as my main speakers aren't full range so I have none of the setup problems that you have.

    I would suggest that if you can't make your mind up whether the REL Q200 is for you, then it probably isn't and you need something with a bit more poke.

    Membership to the SVS club starts at £500 :D
     
  5. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    If you listen to anything with a dedicated subwoofer channel, yes. You may or may not want to keep your front speakers set to Large.

    I don't rate REL subs very highly, myself, especially not the Q-series. I think you'd be much happier if you followed Ian's suggestion and bought an SVS, or possibly a Velodyne CHT15 or (like me) a Paradigm Servo 15.

    I've no direct experience of SVS or of the CHT15, but I can assure that you that my Servo 15 knocks equivalently priced REL subs into a cocked hat. It's as good as some subs that cost three times the price. (In fact I recall Beekeeper saying that he prefers the Servo 15 to the REL Stentor, which is actually five times the price).
     
  6. Family Guy

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    Well...the REL's going back tomorrow and I'm exchanging it for this baby . Again on 10 days approval so I get time to make my mind up. Can it be worse that the Q200E? (I'm not saying it was a bad sub, just didn't fit in nicely next to my Missions - which are staying)...watch this space...

    Anyone who has experience with the Kef BTW, would love to hear about it.:smashin:
     
  7. Ian J

    Ian J
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    If you are buying it from them (of whom I have never heard) I trust that their service is better than their website.

    I reproduce below a couple of gems from their description of this sub :-

    Edit - A closer look at the spec for this sub quotes a frequency response of 35Hz to 150 Khz +/-3db

    Ignoring the gaffe about 150Khz, a depth of 35Hz isn't very low and you may find that this sub is as feeble as the REL in practice
     
  8. chips

    chips
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    Same figures on the KEF website, I thought that a THX sub had to go lower than 35Hz :confused:.
     
  9. Family Guy

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    Ian and chips,
    whilst I agree with what you say about it going down to 35hz, the TDM45 page on the KEF website opens with the words...
    ...which clearly states that it goes down to 15hz. Maybe they are playing with numbers here (what manufacturer dosen't?) and if you look at the late Bob Tomalski's review here he seems to sing the praises of the sub, I would say pointing it out as the strong point of the package.

    And no, I'm not getting it from there - it's coming from Sevenoaks...
     
  10. Jase

    Jase
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    The KEF THX sub does go lower, it's just that the original specs for THX subs only required them to go down to 35hz (presumably with fairly high output).
     
  11. Family Guy

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    And there we have it...cheers Jase. I'm really looking for some clout more than anything else - since I got my PJ, the size of the picture has outgrown the sound - it used to be the other way round...is there any end to this upgrade lark...:rolleyes:
     
  12. Dean

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    May I also urge (since this forum 'always' points towards SVS and Velodyne) the B&W ASW675, an extremely good sub for the money. It's just that I've seen constant reference to SVS and Velodyne without much else, and think other suggestions should be pointed out. Consider all of them on it's own merits.
     
  13. Jase

    Jase
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    Nope!:D
     
  14. Smurfin

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    Can I say "hear hear" in the background to that last one?
     
  15. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Army Bloke, I can't believe that your 774s can compete with ANY of the subwoofers that you've mentioned. Although they may "push air" @ 23hz, it won't be anything meaningful. Its a bit like saying the REL Quake goes down to < 20hz. Well it might do, but its rolling off to such a degree that you wouldn't notice it.

    I'm a little surprised by your post in a way, if you've owned a REL Storm in the past, you know what those puppies can do and you shouldn't need convincing:)
     
  16. Family Guy

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    Smurfin,
    I didn't have the 774's and the Storm together so can not comment there. I can comment on the 774's and the 200E though - and they go lower than the sub. There's no sound at all from the sub below 30hz - the Missions are audible down to about 23hz and the the needle is still moving when the test tone finishes it's sweep.

    I don't claim that I'm doing the test properly - and if anyone can explain how to do it properly, please feel free - I'm always open to learning.
     
  17. Dean

    Dean
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    It's probably correct, the 774's were always fairly deep sounding speakers...
     
  18. avanzato

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    When you say audible with the 774 do you mean the SPL meter is still reading or can you hear a 'tone' that low?
    If it's a 'tone' you are hearing distortion, or so my test CD says.

    I can't hear anything below 30hz with my sub except the odds and sods in the room vibrating.

    As for the THX badge, their specs are always changing.
     
  19. Family Guy

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    There was no noise no - but the SPL meter was still moving. However, I have picked up a KEF TDM 45B sub today and at the same time, taken out foundation insurance for my house...this thing is good!!
     
  20. Ian J

    Ian J
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    Full report when it has settled in please ;)
     
  21. Family Guy

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    Will do. Will probably be a Kate Adie type report from a pile of rubble that used to be house....
    Final Fantasy is on Sky at the moment in 5.1. I'm sitting in the hallway and things are rattling out here!! Think I'll have to bypass the THX circuitry for a while and see how that goes...
    I had my next door neighbour in today and played him the lobby scene from The Matrix. Gobsmacked is to small a word I think.

    And the answer to my question? Yes - I do need a sub. But it needs to be a bloody good one..:smoke:
     
  22. Matt F

    Matt F
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    The 774's official frequency response is 45Hz-20kHz (+/-3dB) or to put it another way - yes you need a sub.

    The KEF TDM45, with it's 15" driver and 400 watt amp, will certainly move some air but I have heard it said that it's not particularly accurate, especially higher up the frequency range (above 40Hz etc).

    If you can get the KEF for a good price and like what it does then it might be a good idea. However, don't forget that you can get a Servo 15 for £500 and that also has a 15" cone and a 400 watt amp but it plays cleanly too.

    Matt.
     
  23. alexs2

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    Being fair to the Mission's,very few speakers are truly full range,and capable of moving large quantities of air at or below 20Hz,and those that are(things like B&W 801s/Linn Keltik/Komri etc) are usually somewhat expensive and need serious amplifiers....looks like you've answered your question with the Kef though...good luck!
     
  24. Dean

    Dean
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    Yeah, I'd be interested in your opinions of the KEF TDM as I am not familiar with that sub. Sounds pretty good though, have fun, not like I needed to tell you anyway! ;)
     

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