My first time upgrading sound for TV - Help!

Zursen

Member
Hey Peeps,

I have a 65" C9 OLED and I'm not overly happy with the sound on the content I'm watching. I use Nvidia Shield to watch Netflix/Prime etc etc, as well as watching 4K movies through the Nvidia shield. I don't game on console or anything like that as I mainly use PC for that.

I have a few sound options in mind, but the unfortunate thing is my room configuration for the TV right now. Here is an image of my room layout. The distance between TV-Sofa is 6-7ft. I have radiators/fireplace in weird locations so this is really the only place I can have the TV as well as other items in the room taking up space.

Image - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480939076778721281/827232334914125854/Screenshot_6.png

I'm from Ireland, looking to buy new because there arent that many good second hand options.

I was going to go down the route of Denon AVRX2700 paired with Monitor Audio Bronze 100 speakers, Monitor Audio Bronze C150 Centre, Monitor Audio Bronze W10 G6. With the cables and wall mounts it's working out at basically 2000EUR which is a lot of money but would it be worth it considering my existing room configuration?

The second option was Monitor Audio Mass 5.1 (G2) paired with the Denon AVRX2700 that would be around 1300EUR.

Maybe a soundbar is better suited for my configuration? I've heard bad things about Soundbars so haven't gone near one. Any recommendations?

Also if I could cut some costs in Option 1 that would be great. I was primarily aiming for 3.1 sound as setting up rear speakers in my room config seems kinda awkward with the left side of the couch being against the wall.

Someone help me make a decision, please!!!!

Any questions or information needed.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
For some reason RS IE doesn´t have this Yamaha on their site, but it should be available. I think it would be fine your 3.1 system and you would save about 180£, it was introduced few month ago. 5.1 model with whopping 4 hdmi 2.1 inputs for future proofing.


You don`t need Bronze 100 size speakers. Bronze 50 would be more than fine! You also need speaker stands either the ones i link or you can check 2nd hand options (20-50£/pair).



If you are going to buy speaker cable from RS then ask that they give you better price for this one. You probably need couple 2meter peaces for mains and one meter for center channel roughly if receiver goes under tv. Do not pay the list price though.

If you can order the cables from Amazon then example:
Amazon product
Amazon product


As for the subwoofer you can get better one cheaper from dedicated manufacturer. BK builds woofers in UK Essex. This model is step up from the W10! You can choose driver orientation aswell, compare the box dimensions though. All BK subs come with free 5m sub cable. I would call them next week and ask is there some finishes in stock ready to ship or will they have to build them. The drivers were out quite long time.


 

Zursen

Member
For some reason RS IE doesn´t have this Yamaha on their site, but it should be available. I think it would be fine your 3.1 system and you would save about 180£, it was introduced few month ago. 5.1 model with whopping 4 hdmi 2.1 inputs for future proofing.


You don`t need Bronze 100 size speakers. Bronze 50 would be more than fine! You also need speaker stands either the ones i link or you can check 2nd hand options (20-50£/pair).



If you are going to buy speaker cable from RS then ask that they give you better price for this one. You probably need couple 2meter peaces for mains and one meter for center channel roughly if receiver goes under tv. Do not pay the list price though.

If you can order the cables from Amazon then example:
Amazon product
Amazon product


As for the subwoofer you can get better one cheaper from dedicated manufacturer. BK builds woofers in UK Essex. This model is step up from the W10! You can choose driver orientation aswell, compare the box dimensions though. All BK subs come with free 5m sub cable. I would call them next week and ask is there some finishes in stock ready to ship or will they have to build them. The drivers were out quite long time.


Thanks a lot for putting so much effort into your reply.

I found a place in Ireland that has the Yamaha RX-V4A AV Receiver in stock (I think I'll need to double check tomorrow). Also, there is the Sony STRDN1080 on RS but for slightly more expensive than the Yamaha. I've heard good and bad things about that Sony product, would the Yamaha option be a better choice? Better quality and cheaper?

I've dropped an email to Bkelec on their subwoofers, they look amazing, they do White/White Gloss which is part of the theme I'm going for too! Just need to see how much one would be with customs etc.

I would rather Wall Mount the speakers since it's a White Themed build the black stands wouldn't go down well, but that said I could spray paint them maybe. Any downsides to Wall Mounting vs Stands?

One final question, do you think everything can still sound great considering my room setup/space/config?

Wanted to throw in a potential alternative for a sub...


or...


Are they too small for movies?
 
Last edited:

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thanks a lot for putting so much effort into your reply.

I found a place in Ireland that has the Yamaha RX-V4A AV Receiver in stock (I think I'll need to double check tomorrow). Also, there is the Sony STRDN1080 on RS but for slightly more expensive than the Yamaha. I've heard good and bad things about that Sony product, would the Yamaha option be a better choice? Better quality and cheaper?

I've dropped an email to Bkelec on their subwoofers, they look amazing, they do White/White Gloss which is part of the theme I'm going for too! Just need to see how much one would be with customs etc.

I would rather Wall Mount the speakers since it's a White Themed build the black stands wouldn't go down well, but that said I could spray paint them maybe. Any downsides to Wall Mounting vs Stands?

One final question, do you think everything can still sound great considering my room setup/space/config?

Wanted to throw in a potential alternative for a sub...


or...


Are they too small for movies?

You have the front three quite close each other, but not much you can do about that. You could always start with 2.1 and see do you miss center channel. If you sit fairly middle/center to mains then it could be just fine, but for late night listening you can´t boost the speech as you could do with having center channel.

Wall brackets white BT77 should be ok, you would mount the speakers at correct height though meaning the tweeters would be at seated ear height.
Amazon product
You can also get cheap speaker stands in matte white and gloss white, these would work with Bronze 50 main channels:



The Sony is 2017 model so no reason to buy such old unit. Also some bugs still etc. Yamaha RX-V6A would be same level machine, the V4A is 5.1 model no Atmos for future, but if you are sure that you aren´t going to need that.. One nice feature you get with V4A and V6A is it supports wireless surround speakers from Yamaha (Multi Cast 20 or 40). No speaker wires, but power wire yes. You can either add two smaller ones or one at the back of your couch. At least you have this option for future! :) Available as white too!

snapshot002-jpg.1181276



Those subs would be too small yep. If you want smaller/cheaper then the XLS200 but notice the price difference is not big and the P12 is noticeable jump if you watch action/scifi/horror flicks. There will be more weight and depth, but the decision is yours.



Alternative option if you want low width sub then Double Gem. 283W x 460D x 550H (mm)

20200123_170142-jpg.1291432


20200123_170159-jpg.1291433
 

Zursen

Member
You have the front three quite close each other, but not much you can do about that. You could always start with 2.1 and see do you miss center channel. If you sit fairly middle/center to mains then it could be just fine, but for late night listening you can´t boost the speech as you could do with having center channel.

Wall brackets white BT77 should be ok, you would mount the speakers at correct height though meaning the tweeters would be at seated ear height.
Amazon product
You can also get cheap speaker stands in matte white and gloss white, these would work with Bronze 50 main channels:



The Sony is 2017 model so no reason to buy such old unit. Also some bugs still etc. Yamaha RX-V6A would be same level machine, the V4A is 5.1 model no Atmos for future, but if you are sure that you aren´t going to need that.. One nice feature you get with V4A and V6A is it supports wireless surround speakers from Yamaha (Multi Cast 20 or 40). No speaker wires, but power wire yes. You can either add two smaller ones or one at the back of your couch. At least you have this option for future! :) Available as white too!

snapshot002-jpg.1181276



Those subs would be too small yep. If you want smaller/cheaper then the XLS200 but notice the price difference is not big and the P12 is noticeable jump if you watch action/scifi/horror flicks. There will be more weight and depth, but the decision is yours.



Alternative option if you want low width sub then Double Gem. 283W x 460D x 550H (mm)

20200123_170142-jpg.1291432


20200123_170159-jpg.1291433
I'll stick with the original Sub recommendation, I'm just hoping they ship to Ireland still and the custom fees aren't horrible. Damn you Brexit!!!!

I would personally rather go with Stands due to the ability to position them to my liking and ease of installation but can't find any that ship to Ireland (the ones you recommended anyway). Seems like wall mounts is the easiest way for me to go and cheapest.

I'll stick with the centre speaker your point with late night viewing is a good one.

Finally if I want Atmos or to potentially benefit from Atmos and 5.1.2 in the future am I best sticking with Denon 2700? Was really liking the idea of the Yamaha, and I'm not sure when or if I will go for 5.1.2 or even 5.1 as this is just the beginning of my journey. Maybe if I went for Yamaha and as I progress I could sell it and change up to a 5.1.2 system and an Atmos AV Receiver. I'm going to be honest, I'm fairly new to this and the word 'Atmos' rings a bell of superior sound quality in my brain, why is it superior? I have no idea. Would I be missing out? Also no idea lol.

Having 3.1 and an Atmos supporting AV Receiver would be a waste?

Edit - Thanks so much again for taking the time out to help me.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
I'll stick with the original Sub recommendation, I'm just hoping they ship to Ireland still and the custom fees aren't horrible. Damn you Brexit!!!!

I would personally rather go with Stands due to the ability to position them to my liking and ease of installation but can't find any that ship to Ireland (the ones you recommended anyway). Seems like wall mounts is the easiest way for me to go and cheapest.

I'll stick with the centre speaker your point with late night viewing is a good one.

Finally if I want Atmos or to potentially benefit from Atmos and 5.1.2 in the future am I best sticking with Denon 2700? Was really liking the idea of the Yamaha, and I'm not sure when or if I will go for 5.1.2 or even 5.1 as this is just the beginning of my journey. Maybe if I went for Yamaha and as I progress I could sell it and change up to a 5.1.2 system and an Atmos AV Receiver. I'm going to be honest, I'm fairly new to this and the word 'Atmos' rings a bell of superior sound quality in my brain, why is it superior? I have no idea. Would I be missing out? Also no idea lol.

Having 3.1 and an Atmos supporting AV Receiver would be a waste?

Edit - Thanks so much again for taking the time out to help me.

Better to call them on monday (BKE) as they might be lazy/busy answering emails. Ask to speak with Tom Pearce and you will be sorted. Just decide which driver orientation works better front firing or down firing. Same performance on both. Different cab dimensions and DF might not be most ideal if you have neighbours below you unless you buy some isolation pad.

With the speakers on wall it leaves you more floorspace for the subwoofer (40cm width) which is great so you can try it in few positions.

You need to measure carefully so you get the position for the wall brackets spot on (height) and also width so both front main channels are equal distance from center channel. At least the BT77 can be tilted if the left side speaker goes closer to corner. I would push the tv cabinet as much to right as you can (main listening position directly opposite to tv) so you can spread the main channels good amount apart, i would hope you can get at least 2meters which would then equal to distance you sit from tv/speakers and remember the Bronze 50 tweeters would be same level to your ears when you sit on couch. The center channel location is usually toughest and i would recommend wall mounting tv when possible or building some raiser for the tv´s feet so you can get the center channel in front of tv on the av-cabinets front edge (without blocking picture) and then further angled upwards if need to be. What usually muddies the sound is people putting the speaker inside av-cabinet and too low shooting their knees. So pay attention where you place it as the end result is dependant of it! If you didn´t know center channel is one of the most active speaker in your system (+60%) so priorize it! Seriously if you can´t do it, then i would think twice would you be better without it.

For Atmos you need extra speakers. So either upfiring on top of your front mains (Bronze AMS), front height mounted on high up on wall below ceiling (AMS work there too) or the most ideal =on-ceiling or in-ceiling speakers so the overhead effects come directly where they suppose to come. Below article tells you more about it.

Denon still has the 2019 model X1600H for 399£ it has almost everything apart from the latest hdmi 2.1 connections and some 4K upscaling missing but i think tv does it better anyway. You can do comparison here:

Some of the information for Yamaha features is not correct, they will be available via firmware update later:

I think PT should post to Ireland using courier. This is sold out, but more coming 11.4 it´s the only receiver to offer all these features for such low price so popular cheap choice.

However if you are tired waiting and like the idea of wireless surround channels for future with also Atmos capability then buy this model below.

I have learned over the years that it´s better to have bit more future proof regarding some features and extra channels/processing as you never know with this hobby how you are going to feel one day. Then it comes expensive to swap so perhaps better to pay the extra few hundred now. The V6A should be good machine, basically identical to Denon X2700H with features etc. I´m fairly sure you can haggle good package price if you buy everything from same shop (RS IE example)! I would never pay list prices so use your business man skills now! 🥸
 

Zursen

Member
Better to call them on monday (BKE) as they might be lazy/busy answering emails. Ask to speak with Tom Pearce and you will be sorted. Just decide which driver orientation works better front firing or down firing. Same performance on both. Different cab dimensions and DF might not be most ideal if you have neighbours below you unless you buy some isolation pad.

With the speakers on wall it leaves you more floorspace for the subwoofer (40cm width) which is great so you can try it in few positions.

You need to measure carefully so you get the position for the wall brackets spot on (height) and also width so both front main channels are equal distance from center channel. At least the BT77 can be tilted if the left side speaker goes closer to corner. I would push the tv cabinet as much to right as you can (main listening position directly opposite to tv) so you can spread the main channels good amount apart, i would hope you can get at least 2meters which would then equal to distance you sit from tv/speakers and remember the Bronze 50 tweeters would be same level to your ears when you sit on couch. The center channel location is usually toughest and i would recommend wall mounting tv when possible or building some raiser for the tv´s feet so you can get the center channel in front of tv on the av-cabinets front edge (without blocking picture) and then further angled upwards if need to be. What usually muddies the sound is people putting the speaker inside av-cabinet and too low shooting their knees. So pay attention where you place it as the end result is dependant of it! If you didn´t know center channel is one of the most active speaker in your system (+60%) so priorize it! Seriously if you can´t do it, then i would think twice would you be better without it.

For Atmos you need extra speakers. So either upfiring on top of your front mains (Bronze AMS), front height mounted on high up on wall below ceiling (AMS work there too) or the most ideal =on-ceiling or in-ceiling speakers so the overhead effects come directly where they suppose to come. Below article tells you more about it.

Denon still has the 2019 model X1600H for 399£ it has almost everything apart from the latest hdmi 2.1 connections and some 4K upscaling missing but i think tv does it better anyway. You can do comparison here:

Some of the information for Yamaha features is not correct, they will be available via firmware update later:

I think PT should post to Ireland using courier. This is sold out, but more coming 11.4 it´s the only receiver to offer all these features for such low price so popular cheap choice.

However if you are tired waiting and like the idea of wireless surround channels for future with also Atmos capability then buy this model below.

I have learned over the years that it´s better to have bit more future proof regarding some features and extra channels/processing as you never know with this hobby how you are going to feel one day. Then it comes expensive to swap so perhaps better to pay the extra few hundred now. The V6A should be good machine, basically identical to Denon X2700H with features etc. I´m fairly sure you can haggle good package price if you buy everything from same shop (RS IE example)! I would never pay list prices so use your business man skills now! 🥸
Hey again Gasp,

You've given me a lot to think about, getting the best sound can be quite complicated and become quite expensive. So I think I'm going to start off simple n cheap to test out how the sound/speakers will work in my current room layout (being close to a corner wall is not ideal). There is a decent package on RS (They also do these speaker sets in White I noticed) - DENON AVRX2700 + WHARFEDALE DX2 5.1 speaker Bundle Black

The AV Reciever is kinda the one I was leaning towards in the end, coupled with some decently reviewed entry level speaker set, seems like a great starting point? As time goes on I can upgrade specific parts. Which would be the best order of upgrade? Subwoofer from bkelec first?

There is another option 100GBP more expensive - DENON AVRX2700 + MONITOR AUDIO MASS II 5.1 Black Speaker Bundle

I know it wont be the best of quality but it should surely be a fairly decent upgrade default TV Speaker sound?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Hey again Gasp,

You've given me a lot to think about, getting the best sound can be quite complicated and become quite expensive. So I think I'm going to start off simple n cheap to test out how the sound/speakers will work in my current room layout (being close to a corner wall is not ideal). There is a decent package on RS (They also do these speaker sets in White I noticed) - DENON AVRX2700 + WHARFEDALE DX2 5.1 speaker Bundle Black

The AV Reciever is kinda the one I was leaning towards in the end, coupled with some decently reviewed entry level speaker set, seems like a great starting point? As time goes on I can upgrade specific parts. Which would be the best order of upgrade? Subwoofer from bkelec first?

There is another option 100GBP more expensive - DENON AVRX2700 + MONITOR AUDIO MASS II 5.1 Black Speaker Bundle

I know it wont be the best of quality but it should surely be a fairly decent upgrade default TV Speaker sound?

Upgrade path? Well everything apart from the receiver. So not really something i would consider unless one really needs specifically such tiny speakers. Start with 2.1 and go from there, but with normal size bookshelf speakers cause this is where you get the best bang for buck / sound quality. The Monitor Audio speakers i linked will work fine even if they are close to wall, just give them little space so not fully against wall/corner.

So using the examples i posted earlier as i´m familiar with the MA sound and most people would surely enjoy them. The earlier range was one of the best in it´s class. Google MA Bronze 5.1 AVForums review and read that. This is step up to that range, but the 50 model is slightly more compact to Bronze 2s which would work in your space better i believe. You can choose nice looking speaker stands (below is more expensive one but prettier) and typically RS gives -15% discount from them when bought with speakers so make sure you ask good discount for the whole system.





And then choose subwoofer. If you don`t want to spend lot of money then get the cheaper Gemini II. It´s still fine quality woofer as first real one. But mark my words you will upgrade this one first if you start craving that extra impact and deep bass for the blockbuster movies. So that is why i said to get the P12 model straight away (399£) as it would be more "future proof" and kind of sweet spot. But i know it hurts to spend that kind of money as you don´t know what you get, if you would do then it would be clear case with zero regrets. But this happens all the time, you will just do it later then and lose bit of money selling old one etc. :)



If there is somewhere to save then you can consider the RX-V4A model (-200£), but no Atmos then. Although it shouldn`t be the end of world really. The V4A still supports the wireless surround channels if you want to try them at later date.

 

Zursen

Member
Thanks man! I guess I'm looking to save some money on the basis that I'm not happy with my room config, I feel like a decent set of speakers/sub will be lose on the current room config. Since you're adament I go down the route, I think the best thing to fix is my room layout. So I did just that!

You can check it out here - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480939076778721281/829728179589611520/Screenshot_4.png - It seems like a much more traditional layout for an audio system, centre the TV and couch so there will be plenty more space for speakers/subwoofer! I'm very bad at home decorating of any kind, proud of my new design haha

Now I just need to re-arrange the room and order the equipment!
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thanks man! I guess I'm looking to save some money on the basis that I'm not happy with my room config, I feel like a decent set of speakers/sub will be lose on the current room config. Since you're adament I go down the route, I think the best thing to fix is my room layout. So I did just that!

You can check it out here - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480939076778721281/829728179589611520/Screenshot_4.png - It seems like a much more traditional layout for an audio system, centre the TV and couch so there will be plenty more space for speakers/subwoofer! I'm very bad at home decorating of any kind, proud of my new design haha

Now I just need to re-arrange the room and order the equipment!

Great! :thumbsup:Now you have all options open and can build big system if required. But as i mentioned start with 2.1 if you can`t spend much right away. I would still pick the RX-V6A or Denon X2700H cause now you can have 5.2.2 system easily in future. If you can imagine having wires run in for the surround channels then Denon will do aswell. Don`t order anything without calling the shop or emailing first and asking that they give you good package deal including X products! See what kind of discount they offer.

And if possible stick with the P12 model. It´s one thing i wouldn´t bargin for movie system. Just need to call BK asking how fast they can build one for you or do they have some finishes ready.


 

Zursen

Member
Great! :thumbsup:Now you have all options open and can build big system if required. But as i mentioned start with 2.1 if you can`t spend much right away. I would still pick the RX-V6A or Denon X2700H cause now you can have 5.2.2 system easily in future. If you can imagine having wires run in for the surround channels then Denon will do aswell. Don`t order anything without calling the shop or emailing first and asking that they give you good package deal including X products! See what kind of discount they offer.

And if possible stick with the P12 model. It´s one thing i wouldn´t bargin for movie system. Just need to call BK asking how fast they can build one for you or do they have some finishes ready.


Thanks! I've been speaking with Tom from bkelec about subs and they can definitely ship to Ireland luckily. Looks like you have to buy spiked feet for the subs separately. Are they 100% necessary? I'll also buy a sub lead from bkelec.

There is a store in Ireland that sells the Denon 2700h around 100EUR cheaper than RS, so I'll call RS and mention that as well as trying to get a good package deal on Speakers/Centre/AV Receiver/Cables.

So hyped to have a proper sound system in the living room, I always listen to music through earphones but that will soon change :D

Big thanks to you for all your help n being patient with my lack of knowledge on all of this.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thanks! I've been speaking with Tom from bkelec about subs and they can definitely ship to Ireland luckily. Looks like you have to buy spiked feet for the subs separately. Are they 100% necessary? I'll also buy a sub lead from bkelec.

There is a store in Ireland that sells the Denon 2700h around 100EUR cheaper than RS, so I'll call RS and mention that as well as trying to get a good package deal on Speakers/Centre/AV Receiver/Cables.

So hyped to have a proper sound system in the living room, I always listen to music through earphones but that will soon change :D

Big thanks to you for all your help n being patient with my lack of knowledge on all of this.

BK subs come with spikes & free subwoofer cable (5meters) and then you can buy floor protectors under them if needed or use some tiny coins.

Try to haggle the speaker wire free, you need two 2meter peaces for main speakers. I would choose this below, not the thin crap they usually push. It´s still way overpriced so make sure you won`t pay RRP.

Better would be if you order the roll (2,5mm / AWG14) i linked earlier kabeldirekt it´s cheap OFC wire and then you would have more for future. 15-30meter roll won´t cost much. Also you can order couple HDMI cables (Amazon Basics) if needed, they cheap there.
 

Zursen

Member
Hey Gasp,

Have my AV Receiver (Ended up going with the Yamaha RX-A2A for a good price), Denon 2700 has 0 stock anywhere, big shortage due to various reasons so ended up going for this one. Only thing I'm waiting on is the sub from bkelec.com shipping has been arrange so should be here next week. I'm going to go ahead and set everything up anyway so I can just add the sub in when it arrives.

The stands are MISSION STANCETTE, set one up and realised they have this little rubber thing on the top that u put the speaker onto (I guess these reduce vibrations and so on) but it seems odd that there is nothing to screw the speaker onto the stand so its essentially sitting on top ready to fall! Any tricks to secure it or is it just a matter of be careful around your speakers?

Going to setup everything up now, prepare yourself for loads of questions as I potentially hit some walls :D

So glad to have all the stuff here, very excited! Thanks for all your help!
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Hey Gasp,

Have my AV Receiver (Ended up going with the Yamaha RX-A2A for a good price), Denon 2700 has 0 stock anywhere, big shortage due to various reasons so ended up going for this one. Only thing I'm waiting on is the sub from bkelec.com shipping has been arrange so should be here next week. I'm going to go ahead and set everything up anyway so I can just add the sub in when it arrives.

The stands are MISSION STANCETTE, set one up and realised they have this little rubber thing on the top that u put the speaker onto (I guess these reduce vibrations and so on) but it seems odd that there is nothing to screw the speaker onto the stand so its essentially sitting on top ready to fall! Any tricks to secure it or is it just a matter of be careful around your speakers?

Going to setup everything up now, prepare yourself for loads of questions as I potentially hit some walls :D

So glad to have all the stuff here, very excited! Thanks for all your help!

Nice to hear you got good deal! The speakers will usually sit on the stands like that. Blutack is of course one option. Not sure if anything better, less messy (not leaving any marks).


You can run the setup 1-3mic positions, no need to do more positions (30-60cm from the main seat if doing 3, so each side of middle seat). Then just keep the speakers full range (Large speaker size) as you are running 2.0 system, you have to do it again when sub arrives / you add more speakers.
 

Zursen

Member
Thanks! I actually ordered blu tac now... though I didn't even test the speakers on the stands with the rubber feet that attach to the stand. With the rubber feet the speaker barely moves, even a light bang wouldn't knock it off so It's fairly sturdy regardless (I don't have kids so I'll be fine haha). I should probably test before asking silly questions, sorry!

So I got it all setup, did my wiring, sound testing and it sounds so much better even without a sub there is plenty of bass ( I can't even begin to imagine how much better bass from a subwoofer will sound). Need to tweak a lot though. My centre speaker is on top of the box it came in and the AV Receiver is on the floor lol. I'm wall mounting the TV this weekend which will free up the TV stand for the Centre speaker & AV Receiver. That said, the centre will not be as high as the Bronze 50's, so I will need to sort that. Maybe a floating shelf with 10kg capacity will do the trick.

I will be mounting the TV 65" from the ground to the centre of the TV (It's a 65" TV). That's what google told me anyway.

The remote seems so complicated, I'm setting it to straight HDMI (eARC) out to the TV, I run the auto callibration setup thingy as you mention and that's that. I'll need to do it all again properly when I have everything in the right spot. But is there anything else I should be doing with this massive remote.

Or is it just as simple as arranging your speakers correctly, doing the setup with the mic and enjoying your content?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thanks! I actually ordered blu tac now... though I didn't even test the speakers on the stands with the rubber feet that attach to the stand. With the rubber feet the speaker barely moves, even a light bang wouldn't knock it off so It's fairly sturdy regardless (I don't have kids so I'll be fine haha). I should probably test before asking silly questions, sorry!

So I got it all setup, did my wiring, sound testing and it sounds so much better even without a sub there is plenty of bass ( I can't even begin to imagine how much better bass from a subwoofer will sound). Need to tweak a lot though. My centre speaker is on top of the box it came in and the AV Receiver is on the floor lol. I'm wall mounting the TV this weekend which will free up the TV stand for the Centre speaker & AV Receiver. That said, the centre will not be as high as the Bronze 50's, so I will need to sort that. Maybe a floating shelf with 10kg capacity will do the trick.

I will be mounting the TV 65" from the ground to the centre of the TV (It's a 65" TV). That's what google told me anyway.

The remote seems so complicated, I'm setting it to straight HDMI (eARC) out to the TV, I run the auto callibration setup thingy as you mention and that's that. I'll need to do it all again properly when I have everything in the right spot. But is there anything else I should be doing with this massive remote.

Or is it just as simple as arranging your speakers correctly, doing the setup with the mic and enjoying your content?

Just enjoy for now as you have to change speaker locations and more stuff comes so you will run setup again many times. Hope the sub arrives soon so movies will be more enjoyable. You can also try to play with how much apart the front mains are from each other and slight toe in toward listener if you sit in the middle. Just don´t go wider than the distance from speakers to listener.

Did you order P12-300SB model or?
 

Zursen

Member
Just enjoy for now as you have to change speaker locations and more stuff comes so you will run setup again many times. Hope the sub arrives soon so movies will be more enjoyable. You can also try to play with how much apart the front mains are from each other and slight toe in toward listener if you sit in the middle. Just don´t go wider than the distance from speakers to listener.

Did you order P12-300SB model or?
Yep, I got the P12-300SB. Should be with me sometime next week hopefully!

One complaint the girlfriend had was that the sound was out of sync with the video by a very small margin. I couldn't notice myself and convinced she is mental. Also the positioning for everything isn't perfect right now so that might have contributed. Is there a way to double check this?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Yep, I got the P12-300SB. Should be with me sometime next week hopefully!

One complaint the girlfriend had was that the sound was out of sync with the video by a very small margin. I couldn't notice myself and convinced she is mental. Also the positioning for everything isn't perfect right now so that might have contributed. Is there a way to double check this?

Great! I haven`t had that issue so can´t help, try to search if something comes up (google), although i wouldn´t stress too much yet if you have lot of tweaking to do still. I would buy or lend tripod/camera stand/boom arm mic stand if someone your friends has one. You might still add more channels in future so it can used and not really expensive.

Amazon product
 

Zursen

Member
Great! I haven`t had that issue so can´t help, try to search if something comes up (google), although i wouldn´t stress too much yet if you have lot of tweaking to do still. I would buy or lend tripod/camera stand/boom arm mic stand if someone your friends has one. You might still add more channels in future so it can used and not really expensive.

Amazon product
Finally got everything setup, just need the Subwoofer which should be arriving tomorrow or Thursday. Then I have some trunking on the way to assist with cable management. Thought I would attach an image to show it off now that it's done! Ignore the video quality (youtube), had to use this song as a sound test for a guest :D

The speakers came with some 'Sponge' or 'Foam' which looks like it fits in the back of the speakers, is this optional? Is it to prevent any sound bouncing out the back and hitting the back wall behind the speaker or what is the function?

Thanks for all your help with the build, ideas and just helping me focus myself.
 

Attachments

  • PXL_20210420_193806597.MP.jpg
    PXL_20210420_193806597.MP.jpg
    202.9 KB · Views: 14

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Finally got everything setup, just need the Subwoofer which should be arriving tomorrow or Thursday. Then I have some trunking on the way to assist with cable management. Thought I would attach an image to show it off now that it's done! Ignore the video quality (youtube), had to use this song as a sound test for a guest :D

The speakers came with some 'Sponge' or 'Foam' which looks like it fits in the back of the speakers, is this optional? Is it to prevent any sound bouncing out the back and hitting the back wall behind the speaker or what is the function?

Thanks for all your help with the build, ideas and just helping me focus myself.

Yeah the bungs are if you keep the speakers close to walls which like you have now, it will help with the bass response. You can listen some music track which has good bass, put the bungs in and listen which sounds better. Are they needed for movies then when you don´t run the speakers full range is another thing. You can try them, listen and let your ears decide. If you don´t hear much difference then don´t use them.

Looks great, rarely i see center channel placed high up in free air with about same height tweeters on all three! Halleluja! :clap:

Receiver has good space on top and sides too. Bit suprised you didn´t opt for white speaker stands, but perhaps if you add surround speakers (rears) later then you can move those black ones there and buy white ones at the front if you/gf/wife fancy that.

If i were to do something i would push the main speakers just tad forward and consider some rug in front of speakers on the floor.

Subwoofer location will be critical. The left corner would be first spot i would try, but not sure is it possible to have the wire come under the door (you would have to put some low trunking type thing so the wire would be safe). You have some cabinet at the right side, but yeah you can try the sub at the right side to R main speaker. There is usually noticeable difference how it sounds there vs. front corner but let your ears decide.

Run 3mic position with the YPAO if you were to move the sub to new spot / try out. Also remember to change speaker size to Small for all after YPAO and set crossovers 80hz for the Bronzes (LCR). These you have to do manually from the menu. I hope you have some kind of tripod or mic stand for the mic so it would be at seated ear height and room silent you away from mic/speakers.

For the BK sub before you run YPAO setup:

  • Phase knob to 0
  • Frequency Max 120hz
  • Filter Out / LFE
  • Lo Level Gain 11 clock (report subwoofer level from the menu for me after you have run YPAO)
  • Hi Level Gain min
  • Connect to Right / Mono
  • The model you bought has Auto On / Off feature too, put it so that the sub powers all time. Use the Auto On later, not during the setup


image.php
 

Zursen

Member
Yeah the bungs are if you keep the speakers close to walls which like you have now, it will help with the bass response. You can listen some music track which has good bass, put the bungs in and listen which sounds better. Are they needed for movies then when you don´t run the speakers full range is another thing. You can try them, listen and let your ears decide. If you don´t hear much difference then don´t use them.

Looks great, rarely i see center channel placed high up in free air with about same height tweeters on all three! Halleluja! :clap:

Receiver has good space on top and sides too. Bit suprised you didn´t opt for white speaker stands, but perhaps if you add surround speakers (rears) later then you can move those black ones there and buy white ones at the front if you/gf/wife fancy that.

If i were to do something i would push the main speakers just tad forward and consider some rug in front of speakers on the floor.

Subwoofer location will be critical. The left corner would be first spot i would try, but not sure is it possible to have the wire come under the door (you would have to put some low trunking type thing so the wire would be safe). You have some cabinet at the right side, but yeah you can try the sub at the right side to R main speaker. There is usually noticeable difference how it sounds there vs. front corner but let your ears decide.

Run 3mic position with the YPAO if you were to move the sub to new spot / try out. Also remember to change speaker size to Small for all after YPAO and set crossovers 80hz for the Bronzes (LCR). These you have to do manually from the menu. I hope you have some kind of tripod or mic stand for the mic so it would be at seated ear height and room silent you away from mic/speakers.

For the BK sub before you run YPAO setup:

  • Phase knob to 0
  • Frequency Max 120hz
  • Filter Out / LFE
  • Lo Level Gain 11 clock (report subwoofer level from the menu for me after you have run YPAO)
  • Hi Level Gain min
  • Connect to Right / Mono
  • The model you bought has Auto On / Off feature too, put it so that the sub powers all time. Use the Auto On later, not during the setup


image.php
Legend! The photo was taken prior to putting our big rug down! I'm thinking of putting the sub on the right side. There is a big Wardrobe in this room (shared house, bedroom has no wardrobe) but we have a new spot for it in a different room so that entire right side corner (1 metre or so of space) will be free'd up so I can play around with the sub location, so it's definitely better to have it in a corner in general? if so I will be moving this Wardrobe ASAP haha! But yeah I will test using the mic once we get the sub and play around to see what I like. Those Bass settings you provided are a GREAT HELP.

I was getting a good deal from Richersounds and they had no White Speaker stands in stock that work with the Bronze 50's. The girlfriend likes the black, it's odd but it works since TV/Receiver/PS4/Nvidia sheild is black too. But like you say, I can move them back behind the chair (I am already planning for 5.1 LOL) I'll probably switch to Monitor Audio Bronze 200 Floor Standers around Christmas time and move the Bronze 50's to the back. With the new room layout I think they will work fine, what do you think? I could also spray paint the stands white easily enough.

Can you share a pic of your setup (you don't have to but it would be cool!).

I've been resting the YAPO mic on the couch at ear level, might not be ideal. I have a spare tripod I will use with the Sub. How far away do I put the mic for the 3 positions? Centre, then to the left/right in line with each side speaker?

The guys at Bkelec emailed me asking me if I want a White speaker cover for the Sub, compared to the default black. Didn't even know this was an option! They asked just before shipping lol. Are they called mesh covers? The speakers actually look cool without them.

I'm very impressed anyway, listening to music now and it's insane! Plenty of bass without the sub hah. Dialogue is crystal clear, can hear all sorts of background sounds I wouldn't usually notice.

Send me a pic of your setup if you dare ;)
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Legend! The photo was taken prior to putting our big rug down! I'm thinking of putting the sub on the right side. There is a big Wardrobe in this room (shared house, bedroom has no wardrobe) but we have a new spot for it in a different room so that entire right side corner (1 metre or so of space) will be free'd up so I can play around with the sub location, so it's definitely better to have it in a corner in general? if so I will be moving this Wardrobe ASAP haha! But yeah I will test using the mic once we get the sub and play around to see what I like. Those Bass settings you provided are a GREAT HELP.

I was getting a good deal from Richersounds and they had no White Speaker stands in stock that work with the Bronze 50's. The girlfriend likes the black, it's odd but it works since TV/Receiver/PS4/Nvidia sheild is black too. But like you say, I can move them back behind the chair (I am already planning for 5.1 LOL) I'll probably switch to Monitor Audio Bronze 200 Floor Standers around Christmas time and move the Bronze 50's to the back. With the new room layout I think they will work fine, what do you think? I could also spray paint the stands white easily enough.

Can you share a pic of your setup (you don't have to but it would be cool!).

I've been resting the YAPO mic on the couch at ear level, might not be ideal. I have a spare tripod I will use with the Sub. How far away do I put the mic for the 3 positions? Centre, then to the left/right in line with each side speaker?

The guys at Bkelec emailed me asking me if I want a White speaker cover for the Sub, compared to the default black. Didn't even know this was an option! They asked just before shipping lol. Are they called mesh covers? The speakers actually look cool without them.

I'm very impressed anyway, listening to music now and it's insane! Plenty of bass without the sub hah. Dialogue is crystal clear, can hear all sorts of background sounds I wouldn't usually notice.

Send me a pic of your setup if you dare ;)

It´s one of those things you have to try (sub placement), but if you want bit more grunt the corner due to boundary gain is often good spot to maximize your woofers performance. If it sounds tad boomy then moving it away slightly can help. Try it out, so run 3mic positions and when you know where it stays then do the whole 6-8 mic positions. For the three as you said in the same one couch and usually in quite tight area about 30-60cm. And please use the tripod, mic pointing ceiling and do it when wife is away so the room is fully silent as the mic is very sensitive to any noises in house.

For a movie system you don´t really "need" the Bronze towers - another pair of 50s would be fine hell even pair of earlier Bronze 1s in white would work great for surround channels, but i understand they (towers) look very nice cause i had them aswell, well few generations older ones mixed with the newer centre and white+white stands surrounds. All sold now and i just moved so don´t have anything yet. Let´s look after summer if intrested to sit more on couch and getting to know neighbours before bringing the house down.

Hope you asked the white front mask for the sub, it looks much better being whole white. See the link below for comparison, two bottom pictures. Well of course it´s question of taste so you know what looks best for you.


Yeah the Bronzes do sound very good for the money and the new model is even larger more capable with wider dispersion. They will sound very enjoyable with movies and the subwoofer when you hit some blockbuster bluray movie in (Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD MA soundtrack). If you haven´t heard earlier quality sub it will be good times ahead as in "i need to watch all my favourite movies again". Hit some Jurassic Park with T-Rex stomping, Mad Max Fury Road, U-571, Lord of the Rings, Black Hawk Down, Overloard etc. Some owners of P12 has said the sub sounds better after using few weeks, the driver loosens up. Not something i have heard once only so yeah keep playing it daily. If you want to tweak the sub i would do that from Yamaha menu under "speaker levels and subwoofer level". So no need to touch the knobs anymore assuming the 11clock position of the gain is optimal, we will know that when you check the figure you got after doing YPAO. It will be example -6db. Hope the sub arrives tomorrow so the fun can really begin. 🍿
 
Last edited:

Zursen

Member
The Sub has arrived, it's so beautiful! I can say that about a sub right? Such a solid build. I'm new to this and it comes with 3 cables, 1 is a power cable nice n simple. One is a simple cable which looks to plug into Right / Mono then into my AV Receiver into the Subwoofer slot. It also comes with this chunky Hi Fi cable I think? It plugs into the big wierd hi fi connection on the back, then the other end has 3 open wires and I've no idea what to do with them. Do I need all cables connected or is it a matter of choice, use the Low fi (Gold plated RCA to RCA) or Hi fi cable?

I'm guessing simple RCA Low Fi cable is the choice here, but the High level input sounds interesting 'The advantage of this method is that the p12-300 receives exactly the same signal as being supplied to the main speakers. This means that the character and tonal balance of the bass from the main speakers is carried through to the sub' that sounds great, I think?

You also mentioned '
  • Connect to Right / Mono'
So I'm going to do just that.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
The Sub has arrived, it's so beautiful! I can say that about a sub right? Such a solid build. I'm new to this and it comes with 3 cables, 1 is a power cable nice n simple. One is a simple cable which looks to plug into Right / Mono then into my AV Receiver into the Subwoofer slot. It also comes with this chunky Hi Fi cable I think? It plugs into the big wierd hi fi connection on the back, then the other end has 3 open wires and I've no idea what to do with them. Do I need all cables connected or is it a matter of choice, use the Low fi (Gold plated RCA to RCA) or Hi fi cable?

I'm guessing simple RCA Low Fi cable is the choice here, but the High level input sounds interesting 'The advantage of this method is that the p12-300 receives exactly the same signal as being supplied to the main speakers. This means that the character and tonal balance of the bass from the main speakers is carried through to the sub' that sounds great, I think?

You also mentioned '
  • Connect to Right / Mono'
So I'm going to do just that.

Just use the 5meter long cable with rca-rca, so Right/Mono and receiver side subwoofer preout 1. No need to think about others now. Put some pictures when all setup!
 

Zursen

Member
Things take longer than they should, but I have it mostly done now. Here is how she's looking currently.


I still need to put the sub in the corner and remove the big wardrobe, that should be done tomorrow hopefully, had to make room elsewhere for it. 1 black cable which belongs to a rear TV light (Philips Hue Playbar) is showing, will get that hidden but not sure if I will ever be able to manage the cables from the rear speakers, they're nice silver/white cables anyway and are barely noticable!

Super happy with it all, so funny seeing how much the lady loves this setup now. She was soooo unsure of this spend, wanted me to get a soundbar etc. But the Subwoofer alone makes it completely worth it hahaha. Still plenty more movies to watch to really get the experience out of it.

Questions...

1 - I have the AV Receiver in All-Channel Stereo which sounds the best by far. Did you keep your AV Receiver on 1 sound 'program' / 'preset' ?

2 - During quiet scenes with just light dialogue you can hear the Sub hum. If I turn down the gain a tad, it will solve that. Should I be leaving gain on max and adjusting the Sub in the settings of the AV Receiver to reduce this humming sound?

I've held off doing a full sound setup with the mic on a stand as I still have to change where the sub is, just did a simple setup with the mic on the centre of the chair at ear level.

Anyway, thanks again
 

The latest video from AVForums

Podcast: Sony A90J Thoughts, madVR Processor & Sonus faber Lumina II Reviews + Movie & TV roundup
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Latest News

Harman Luxury Audio Group releases updated MusicLife app
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Q Acoustics announces Q Active app availability
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
TCL introduces Roku smart TVs for UK
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Melco Audio introduces new N100-H50 digital music library
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
AVForums Podcast: 16th June 2021
  • By Phil Hinton
  • Published

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom