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My BG801 just broke

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Mark Ward, Jul 27, 2003.

  1. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    Just watch a movie, picture quality great everything going fine then quick "fizz" and flash from inside the case accomanied by a slight burning smell and no picture.

    I turned off straight away, removed the lid and have a small amout of soot near the G2s. Strange thing is there's nothing that's obviously the cause of the soot, it could have been there for ages and I'm looking in the wrong place.

    Are there any fuses in there I could check? The internal LEDs now not showing anything, fans not working.

    Anyone have any ideas?

    I've attached some pics of the inside, they are quite large (around 700kb) as I didn't want to lose detail.

    Soot on cover

    G2 area

    G2 from top

    rear of tubes

    Other cards

    Cheers,

    Mark,
     
  2. nathan_silly

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    Bad news mate. Can you see anything obvious that's blown?

    Caps, resistors etc?

    A mate's PJ has soot residue on the casing, over the PSU. So has my MC-1.
     
  3. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    No, that would be what I meant by the bit when I said "I could see no cause for the soot" ;):devil:

    Yeah, it is bad news :(.. It sooooo clean in there, not a hint of anything obvious to me, though I wouldn't know a cap from a resistor. I just looked for charred bits inside and couldn't find anything.

    Having had some more time to think about it, I suspect it may be to do with the PSU as nothing appears to work now. I'm really only 1 step up from a novice as far as CRTs go.

    Anyone know the first places for me to look?

    Thanks,

    Mark.
     
  4. Matt Horne

    Matt Horne
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    :(
     
  5. nathan_silly

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    Are you proficient with a multi-meter?

    You could do a check on the power supply- see if it's delivering voltage to the tubes/PCB.

    I meant can you see any capacitors popped, or any burnt resistors?
     
  6. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    Erm.... Would that be to do with the bit where I said I didn't know a cap from a resistor? :devil: (Sorry, I couldn't resist!). Seriously..If I knew what a cap or a resistor even was I'd stand half a chance, but I've had a very close look inside and can see nothing obvious.

    As for the multi-meter it's sufficient for me to know that the PJ doesn't work. Roland scared me enough when he came down talking about live voltage to the heatsinks etc. for me not to poke around too much in there. :Chicken Smiley here::suicide:

    Can anyone point me to any specific geographical location in the BG801S to look for a fault? I'm still hoping there's some internal fuse that needs replacing.

    On a side note, is there any equipment I can plug into the main that would report vlotage variances? We seem to get a few power cuts lately and I wonder if we're getting spikes.

    Thanks,

    Mark.:devil:
     
  7. chrisgeary

    chrisgeary
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    hmm on that note, is it worth using a surge protected power strip-type-thing? or even a small UPS? anyone else do that?

    Chris
     
  8. X3ELS

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    All my equipment runs on the Belkin surge master things. They even insure your equipment against damage.

    Worth evrery penny in my mind, + all the contacts are soldered internally rather than being contact only.

    Marvellous :)
     
  9. Roland @ B4

    Roland @ B4
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    Mark few tests for you but I suspect the powersupply because you have lost the fans.

    I presume you have checked the fuse in the mains lead :)

    Is there a red led, alight on the very back of the projector where the leads go in.?

    Open the cover, on the long black box that sits right across the middle of the projector, there are some cut outs are any of those lights working?
     
  10. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    Hi Roland

    Yes, first thing I did was to try another lead.

    The LED doesn't light at all.

    No, there really isn't any sign or sound of life. I will have another look when I get home this afternoon now it's been off for a full day though.

    Will be back this later..

    Thanks,

    Mark.
     
  11. nathan_silly

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    Capacitor...them cylinder things (black & blue)
    http://www.hardware-one.com/reviews/msi6309/images/capacitor.jpg


    If a capacitor is close to failure- the top of the capacitor bulges.

    When it fails it's pretty obvious...
    http://www.bpfh.net/microsoft/win98-ate-pc/win98-ate-pc-pics/destroyed-sound-card.jpg



    Resistor- two types..
    http://webhome.idirect.com/~jadams/electronics/resistor.gif
    and
    http://www.hardware-one.com/reviews/msi6309/images/capacitor.jpg

    The little rectangles (look like solder blobs), but are in fact surface mount resistors.

    A resistor goes black/brown when burnt.

    Have a look here to see (use L/R buttons)
    http://www.bpfh.net/microsoft/win98-ate-pc/win98-ate-pc-pics/destroyed-sound-card.html
     
  12. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    Thanks for the lesson Nathan!:) I will go internal component spotting when I get home. As I said before I think the soot is a red herring, there's no life anywhere in the PJ so it'll probably be PSU related.

    @Roland, if it is the PSU how complex/expensive/quick will it be to fix?

    Mark.
     
  13. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    Double checked and no lights on anywhere, either on the outside or internally, also not a hint of sound, hum or any other sign of life at all :(

    PSU probs?

    Mark.
     
  14. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    With guidance from Roland (Thanks Roland:)) I located 2 glass fuses near the G2s that had blown. A quick trip to Maplins for some replacements but still no sign of life.

    The glass fuse on the PSU card appears intact, the 5 "non-glass" fuses in tube fuseholders on the PSU card also appear to be OK, though I'm not sure whether they would look any different had they blown. I also located another "non-glass" fuse to the inside rear near the on off switch which also doesn't physically looked damaged.

    Still no sign of life. I've tried the 2 power leads I've been trying with other kit just to make sure they work.

    Does anyone know the rating of these other fuses? or even if there are any I've missed? I guess it wouldn't hurt to try replacing them too.

    Thanks,

    Mark.
     
  15. chrisgeary

    chrisgeary
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    the non-glass fuses, i presume, are normal ones that you could fit into a normal 13a household plug? if so, you could take each one out and fit it to a table lamp that you know to work. that way you can verify those fuses too.
    one has to wonder though, fuses (especially wire ones) tend to blow if something really bad has gone wrong. a big spark is a bit of a clue. having said that, if you do find the fuse that has blown and replace it (be sure not to change it for anything but the same rating as the original!), the worst that will happen is it will blow again. i hope this isnt the case for you.

    im inclined to suggest that if you find a fuse that wont pass current to your table lamp, that you get that info back to this thread and someone knowledgable might be able to let you know what circuit it was, and thus you may be a step closer to reviving your PJ.

    Chris
     
  16. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    Having tested all fuses the non-glass ones were all intact, Roland is looking to see if he has a replacement PSU for me.

    Only blew on Sunday and I'm REALLY missing my PJ :(

    Mark.
     
  17. sinbrad

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    Just thought I would add my ten penny worth. The non-glass fuses you are refering to will not look any different blown than they would not blown (know what I mean?). You would have to test them for continuous current with a meter. I have the data version and it was blowing the same fuse all the time until I managed to track it down and get the part replaced that was causing it. If it weren't for the meter I would have been scratching my head. Good luck
     
  18. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    I only gave them a quick "bulb" test but all are intact.

    I have absolutely no power at all, no LEDs, no hum, no a hint of life. I'm pretty sure the PSU is the cause. Roland's sending me out a replacement one today and I'm quietly confident that will be the cure.

    Finger's crossed.

    Mark.
     
  19. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    When I was looking around previously trying to find what was wrong it didn't occur to me to take a close look at the BACK of the various boards :blush: .

    Here are some pics of what I now think the fault is:-

    Back of Board
    Front of board
    Detailed Pic of board

    Mark.
     
  20. Mark Grant

    Mark Grant
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    Hello Mark,

    That board should be easy to repair.

    Looks like that was a dry solder joint that has burnt out over time.

    I would clean the leg of the wire wound resistor with a fibre glass pencil or something similar, clean the PCB with the same, then solder it.

    Meter the resistor if possible, to check it still has a resistance, and has not gone short. Value should be printed on the side of the resistor.

    Certainly worth a try.

    Good luck,


    Mark.
     
  21. nfordenfield

    nfordenfield
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    No looks terminal to me, best to just replace it with a bigger PJ, there is one for sale, a barco 1208/2 if I recall :clown:

    Seriously mark i'd have a go at soldering that wire first. remember not to touch the metal part of the soldering iron - it's hot:p

    THEN BUY MY PJ ;) :laugh: ;)
     
  22. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    But they're so big and ugly! :devil: Seriously I'd love your PJ and having seen it's amazing performance I'm amazed it hasn't gone yet. I'm frantically selling verious bits & bobs and if I could get anywhere near I'd make you an offer in a flash. That said, if anyone were to buy it before I could make an offer I'd also heave a sigh of relief as I really can't afford it right now.

    Why do I share my embarrasing experiences? They always come vback to bite me!:rolleyes: The scar from blocking the windows is almost invisble now BTW.

    I'll get a pal to do the solder work for me (don't worry I won't ask you Nathan). I need this up & running soon.

    Mark.
     
  23. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    Thanks Mark(G)!

    15 seconds of soldering and it's up and running as good as new :D

    Minor fault but had serious looking symptoms.

    Mark.
     
  24. Mark Grant

    Mark Grant
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    Glad you got it sorted out for free :smashin:

    Mark G.
     
  25. sinbrad

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    Mark (w), Good to see that you got yr pj up and running. I had the same sort of problem albeit a different failure of sorts (quadrupler). I did ask for help on this forum and received some advice from a certain person (I'm sure they know who I am talking about) on how they can supply me with replacement parts that had nothing to do with the problem. Eventually after failing to contact that said person (reasons known only to himself), I decided to maka a phonecall to the right people. My pj was also up and running in no time at all and at a fraction of the cost it would have cost if I had listened to that certain person. So it pays to listen to some but not others, Know what I mean?
     
  26. Mark Ward

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    Hi Sinbrad

    Don't take this as having a go, it's not meant like that, honest!

    I can tell by your tone that you're still very bitter about you experiences, we all get frustrated when our equipment goes wrong. We don't know whether it's terminal or how much it'll cost to fix if it's not.

    Did you actually buy the PJ from Roland BTW? I didn't, yet he's been, although quite elusive, most helpful. One thing to remember is that a "certain person" is just that ...."a person". Someone who makes his living from CRTs and only has the same fixed number of hours in a day as the rest of us.

    Trying to diagnose a fault in a CRT from a telephoned description of symptoms will always be hit & miss, so what turns out to be the incorrect part may well be sent.

    I had precisely the same situation, Roland sent me a replacement power supply. From my symptoms that was the most likley cause.

    As it turned out it wasn't that at all, in fact it was just a blown solder joint. But that wasn't in any way Rolands fault.

    Now, the difference between my situatin and yours seems to be how we feel about how we were treated. If we want shop like service we have the option of going to a shop. If we are prepared to pay engineers callout charges we have that option open to us too.

    Personally as well as the assistance and shared experiences from everyone else on AVForums I've found the free help and advice on here from Roland, together with a supply source of reasonably price spares from someone who knows what he's talking about invaluable.

    Something I'd sadly miss should he decide that supporting this forum is getting to be a thankless task.

    I read your previous comments, but thought you may have chilled down a little by now:)

    So to Roland I say "Thank you for your help and advice attempting to sort my problem":)

    To Mark Grant "Thanks for saving me some money :)

    TO Sinbrad.. "Try and realise that you may have not been treated as you feel you should but, I'm sure we all get a pressured workload from time to time, and I'm guessing that, whilst all work is important, priorities have to lie with the commitment to equipment he supplied and installations already booked".

    Your PJ is up and running againa as is mine, lets just enjoy them and move on :)

    Mark.

    PS. Glad you found help elsewhere, I found some very nice guys at "CRT Projectors" who've also given me some helpful advice too. It seems to me that evryone in the CRT PJ business are thoroughly decent chaps:)
     
  27. chrisgeary

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    i wholly second the above. in addition, its become clear to me that resources such as Roland, Gordon etc are very few and far between.. their time divided between helping people, for free!, on these forums, and travelling all over the UK helping installing and maintaining CRT projectors. I, for one, would be gutted to lose their invaluable knowledge, experience and kindness.

    :)
     
  28. Roland @ B4

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    Hey I'm only human and there are only a certain number of hours that I can get to the forum. (The last two weeks have been difficult to get to internet access as I was on holiday)

    MOST of the time I hope my advice is helpful and that it will go some way to getting equipment running. It is very difficult to diagnos a projector failure by phone or email / forum

    Sinbrad
    I'm sure your coments are pointed at me and If I let you down then I'm sorry. I know I'm difficult to reach sometimes.
     
  29. Rob.Screene

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    Roland on holiday?

    I read that last post, assuming he was still in the holiday mood, margarita in one hand, CRT tube in the other.

    Go on, I bet you did a quick install while you were out there??

    Rob.
     
  30. Steve Bate

    Steve Bate
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    Holiday? Even when you work you spend half the time on the beach ;) Or gazing at bikini clad babes in hidef :D

    Steve
     

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