My Amazon UK (high value) return got stolen, what can I do?

n0tna

Novice Member
Have you reported it to the police yet?

I haven't yet. At this stage I am hoping that once the issue gets escalated this will not be necessary. Also, I'm not sure what to report. Theft, loss? I can't assert that the item was stolen by Hermes, I don't know that for sure (even though we can agree that it's the most likely scenario).

In the meantime I phoned Amazon Customer Service once more, insisted on getting through to a supervisor or somebody in charge. No success. But, this time they told me that a "retail specialist" has been notified and will open an investigation. This is the follow-up email I received just now:
I understand your concern regarding the return refund for the order # 205-XXX.

Rest assured, I will right away get an investigation done on this for you with the returns team.I would request you to get back to us after 3 business days and we will help you accordingly with the results of investigation.

For more information on return refunds, please go to our Help pages: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html/?nodeId=502480

Thank you for your patience and understanding.We look forward to seeing you again soon.
Your feedback is helping us build Earth's Most Customer-Centric Company.
Warmest regards,
Iram
 
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paulyoung666

Distinguished Member
Sounds typical of DPD, at least that’s my experience, we have nothing but trouble with them, as does everyone in the area. Consistently the worst delivery firm, although Hermes is hot on their heels for that title recently. So much so, that it’s often a deciding factor when choosing a retailer. When I do see the drivers they state my address is wrong on the map, yet sometimes they have no trouble, and they are the only people who have an issue. If they have some kind of proprietary mapping system that’s not up to date like one driver indicated, I would be surprised for a business so reliant on finding the right address and quickly. I think its partly because I’m fairly rural and out of the way. Not because I’m hard to find, but because they can’t be arsed as it takes longer than a few drops in a small urban area, where they could probably do 5 drops or more in the time it takes to do mine. Even if they are not paid per delivery, I expect they are tightly monitored and performance measured to some degree. However in your case atleast you saw them. At mine they usually just say we were not in via email/txt. Sometimes multiple days in a row. Sometimes with random photos of people doors at houses miles away. I guess the stats look better for the drivers to blame us, and maybe it helps the firm look better to Amazon. I even recently had one driver phone me for directions (which is rare) because he had misread the address, but just gave up and I got the same “you were not in” message, despite actually speaking to me on the phone. I did complain to Amazon stating this was happening so often and have excellent CCTV, but they didn’t really care.

And I have nothing but praise for DPD , I have had several high value items delivered by them and parcels collected with no issue at all ........
 

Hixs

Distinguished Member
DPD is sound by me too.

Though I had a package arrive recently which looked like someone had wiped their muddy boot on.

More pissed with the seller who didn't box the item though. Just stuck a postage label on the outer packing.
 

Autopilot

Distinguished Member
I haven't yet. At this stage I am hoping that once the issue gets escalated this will not be necessary. Also, I'm not sure what to report. Theft, loss? I can't assert that the item was stolen by Hermes, I don't know that for sure (even though we can agree that it's the most likely scenario).

In the meantime I phoned Amazon Customer Service once more, insisted on getting through to a supervisor or somebody in charge. No success. But, this time they told me that a "retail specialist" has been notified and will open an investigation. This is the follow-up email I received just now:

Report a theft, if that’s what you think has happened (police don’t deal with loss, and you won’t get a crime number). As I said above, regardless of any investigation (the police might not be able to do much, and may want to wait for Amazon to do an internal investigation - it’s impossible to say right now), other people I knew in your situation had to obtain a crime number to escalate and get a resolution, as Amazon seemed to take more seriously once you have made it official and gives your claim more weight. Someone prepared to involve the police tends to be generally less likely to be making a false claim in general. I know on one occasion Amazon actually requested it was done, much like insurance companies often do.
 

paulyoung666

Distinguished Member
DPD is sound by me too.

Though I had a package arrive recently which looked like someone had wiped their muddy boot on.

More pissed with the seller who didn't box the item though. Just stuck a postage label on the outer packing.

Some people need help , lots of it , you just wouldn’t do that , would you ....
 

Gaslight

Well-known Member
If this story is true, you will need to file a Police report for this, reluctance to do so, will be a sign of guilt in Amazon' eyes.

The Police wont give a crap, but you have the Crime Reference Number which may help sway/prompt them into investigating it. Ideally you need to get to talk to someone in Ireland rather than a call centre in the Philippenes where when the computer says no, it say's no. It's one of the times when you need a native language speakers, not a script reader. Sadly, because the account has had its 'decision' made on it already, getting out of the circular response system is no easy feat. This case has a big black mark against it, and 99% of the CS workers can't override that.

You can also contact Hermes complaints and attempt to provoke a response from them about the package. They do film/weigh packages and warehouses. Obviously it's not filmed start to finish, but you may get lucky and something is retrievable, won't be an overnight success though and could take a fair old while at this time of year.

Send what you put together to Jeffs team. No joy?, next its credit dard chargeback attempt, and if fails, Money Claim Online.

Amazon will probably close your account during/after this if they still disagree with the claim yet want to avoid hassle of chargebacks or court.

Thsts essentially the process unless you get Amazon to admit defeat, which can be done, but not something that should be discussed on this forum as that information could be used by less than desirable folk.

My next commont is nothing personal as I feel the same over all of these types of posts. I shed doubt over these types of claims where people just joined the forum to discuss this type of affair.

Since the MPGH social engineering section featuring lots of 'how to's' was closed down by Amazons legal teams, getting free stuff from Amazon is apparently a lot harder these days :)

However courier fraud at Christmas is an increasing actuality, The PS5 release was a clear example.
 

Marv

Member
Isn’t Herme’s ‘staff’ literally just anyone with a white van (especially at Xmas)?


It is, a friend of mine works for them and his days packages get dropped off at his house in the morning and then he loads his own van and goes about delivering ( or complaining how bad Hermes are to work for,lol)
 

Hixs

Distinguished Member
All the delivery drivers around my way are self employed. Easy way to tell - they all smoke in their vans.
 

N100ABU

Novice Member
I haven't yet. At this stage I am hoping that once the issue gets escalated this will not be necessary. Also, I'm not sure what to report. Theft, loss? I can't assert that the item was stolen by Hermes, I don't know that for sure (even though we can agree that it's the most likely scenario).

In the meantime I phoned Amazon Customer Service once more, insisted on getting through to a supervisor or somebody in charge. No success. But, this time they told me that a "retail specialist" has been notified and will open an investigation. This is the follow-up email I received just now:
Hey man,

I am in the same exact problem as you, they gave responded with the messages. have they made any progress? The latest I have is that they found unusual activity in my account that piss me off
 

CormoranStrike

Active Member
I had the exact same thing with Amazon recently. I bought a MacBook Pro from them, and decided it was too expensive, so I picked the return by courier option on their site, had it picked up, they acknowledged the pick up. A whole month went by, no refund. I was in contact with Amazon Multiple times, they said they hadn’t received the return from the courier, even though the courier tracking said it had been delivered. I thought maybe there was a warehouse backlog cos of COVID, so I was patient, till eventually, I was on a chat about 5 weeks after the return had sent, and the person on chat told me I’d be receiving no refund At all since I hadn’t sent The item back.
 

N100ABU

Novice Member
I have filled a police report and they responded, asking me to provide them with IMEI and serial numbers at the back of the box. I have contacted Amazon to provide me with these numbers still awaiting a response so I can send them to the police
 

Epicurus

Well-known Member
I have filled a police report and they responded, asking me to provide them with IMEI and serial numbers at the back of the box. I have contacted Amazon to provide me with these numbers still awaiting a response so I can send them to the police

That's good and that was going to be my suggestion. I'm sure Amazon have messages on pages of high value electronic items that they record serial numbers etc. The benefit of a mobile phone is that as soon as someone starts using the phone the IMEI can be tracked. Whether the police have the will to do that is another matter, they are quite busy raiding picnics and private dominoes game at the moment!

The main point as others have said is to demonstrate you have the intent to pursue this as a crime.
 

Thug

Moderator
That's good and that was going to be my suggestion. I'm sure Amazon have messages on pages of high value electronic items that they record serial numbers etc. The benefit of a mobile phone is that as soon as someone starts using the phone the IMEI can be tracked. Whether the police have the will to do that is another matter, they are quite busy raiding picnics and private dominoes game at the moment!

The main point as others have said is to demonstrate you have the intent to pursue this as a crime.
If only it was that simple.

How do you think it works?

Do you think that when its used it sends a message to the police?

The provider is more likely to get informed of its use than the police. It would be then up to them to send the details on to the police, but due to data protection and it being intrusive then they may not be able to (or even want to).

Ok, the police can get in touch with a department to run a script showing where the phone was used, which will triangulate to an area between masts. But this will only be when they do this, so will only show when it was last used and wont update in real time. It is also only a rough idea of where it is and can be 1/2 a mile out.
They could maybe see when its connected to a wifi, but again this doesnt mean its connected to a wifi when inside a property as it could easily connect when outside too, and when the info comes back it could be quite some time later. Even then they will only do this for serious offences like kidnap or high risk missing persons.
They would have to get a court order to search a property (unless a risk to life), which wouldnt be granted as there is nothing solid saying it IS in the house/property. Even find my phone can be quite some distance out.

Believe me, its nowhere near as simple as you would hope.
 

N100ABU

Novice Member
If only it was that simple.

How do you think it works?

Do you think that when its used it sends a message to the police?

The provider is more likely to get informed of its use than the police. It would be then up to them to send the details on to the police, but due to data protection and it being intrusive then they may not be able to (or even want to).

Ok, the police can get in touch with a department to run a script showing where the phone was used, which will triangulate to an area between masts. But this will only be when they do this, so will only show when it was last used and wont update in real time. It is also only a rough idea of where it is and can be 1/2 a mile out.
They could maybe see when its connected to a wifi, but again this doesnt mean its connected to a wifi when inside a property as it could easily connect when outside too, and when the info comes back it could be quite some time later. Even then they will only do this for serious offences like kidnap or high risk missing persons.
They would have to get a court order to search a property (unless a risk to life), which wouldnt be granted as there is nothing solid saying it IS in the house/property. Even find my phone can be quite some distance out.

Believe me, its nowhere near as simple as you would hope.
Yes, it’s a complex operation but I believe they will do the simple action which is just to block the device making it redundant rather then finding it or it’s flagged. don’t care about the phone I’m just waiting for my refund to be honest and Amazon’s responses are very threatening making you feel your the suspect which is why filed a police report to make them investigate and cooperate instead of them constantly framing me as the suspect. I really rated Amazon on their service but in these sort of situation they are difficult in terms of support and they very lazy to investigate properly. If they can cooperate with the police then this will further prove my innocence with these people “Amazon Specialists” smh
 

nvingo

Distinguished Member
The police shouldn't be disinterested just because it's only one phone that got lost in the post; they should be interested because there's a dishonest person working where they can get away with taking property.
The longer that Amazon hangs this out, the greater the chance that person has ceased to work there and be traceable, or the greater the chance more property going missing in similar circumstances.
 

Epicurus

Well-known Member
If only it was that simple.

How do you think it works?

Do you think that when its used it sends a message to the police?

The provider is more likely to get informed of its use than the police. It would be then up to them to send the details on to the police, but due to data protection and it being intrusive then they may not be able to (or even want to).

Ok, the police can get in touch with a department to run a script showing where the phone was used, which will triangulate to an area between masts. But this will only be when they do this, so will only show when it was last used and wont update in real time. It is also only a rough idea of where it is and can be 1/2 a mile out.
They could maybe see when its connected to a wifi, but again this doesnt mean its connected to a wifi when inside a property as it could easily connect when outside too, and when the info comes back it could be quite some time later. Even then they will only do this for serious offences like kidnap or high risk missing persons.
They would have to get a court order to search a property (unless a risk to life), which wouldnt be granted as there is nothing solid saying it IS in the house/property. Even find my phone can be quite some distance out.

Believe me, its nowhere near as simple as you would hope.

Sorry for over simplifying. I absolutely didn't mean the phone would be found, only that its use would hopefully show it is not in the OP's possession.
 

Flashy

Well-known Member
If only it was that simple.

How do you think it works?

Do you think that when its used it sends a message to the police?

The provider is more likely to get informed of its use than the police. It would be then up to them to send the details on to the police, but due to data protection and it being intrusive then they may not be able to (or even want to).

Ok, the police can get in touch with a department to run a script showing where the phone was used, which will triangulate to an area between masts. But this will only be when they do this, so will only show when it was last used and wont update in real time. It is also only a rough idea of where it is and can be 1/2 a mile out.
They could maybe see when its connected to a wifi, but again this doesnt mean its connected to a wifi when inside a property as it could easily connect when outside too, and when the info comes back it could be quite some time later. Even then they will only do this for serious offences like kidnap or high risk missing persons.
They would have to get a court order to search a property (unless a risk to life), which wouldnt be granted as there is nothing solid saying it IS in the house/property. Even find my phone can be quite some distance out.

Believe me, its nowhere near as simple as you would hope.
Where are the spoiler tags for anyone who's not yet finished CSI or Spooks? :)
 

Thug

Moderator
The police shouldn't be disinterested just because it's only one phone that got lost in the post; they should be interested because there's a dishonest person working where they can get away with taking property.
The longer that Amazon hangs this out, the greater the chance that person has ceased to work there and be traceable, or the greater the chance more property going missing in similar circumstances.
But where do they start.
It could be the....
buyer,
collection person,
Possibly dozens of people at their sorting depot,
The dozens of Amazon employee's who have access to it,
Temp staff, who come and go on a daily basis,

There are FAR too many people who could easily be the one to take it, spread out over many towns and even counties, so which force should investigate as the crime could have occurred in any one of them?
This would take a LOT of hours at great expense and still probably wouldn't get anywhere.

Multiply that by the possibly hundreds that go missing on daily basis country wide and you would need a police force twice the size.

May be the companies themselves should take more responsibility by doing more (tamper proof return bags, more cctv in their offices, vetting employees, etc).
Its not difficult, just use a tamper proof return bag (with a serial number) and if it gets to its destination open then one of the links along the way has opened it.
Or even the person themselves returning an item should take more responsibility.

Have you noticed that delivery companies now take a photo of the item they deliver with your front door open?
Why not take a photo of the delivery guy holding the item you return? Or at least in their van with the registration mark captured.
Simply buying some tamper proof tape or returns bag may help.
 
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mikes48

Distinguished Member
But where do they start.
It could be the....
buyer,
collection person,
Possibly dozens of people at their sorting depot,
The dozens of Amazon employee's who have access to it,
Temp staff, who come and go on a daily basis,

There are FAR too many people who could easily be the one to take it, spread out over many towns and even counties, so which force should investigate as the crime could have occurred in any one of them?
This would take a LOT of hours at great expense and still probably wouldn't get anywhere.

Multiply that by the possibly hundreds that go missing on daily basis country wide and you would need a police force twice the size.

May be the companies themselves should take more responsibility by doing more (tamper proof return bags, more cctv in their offices, vetting employees, etc).
Its not difficult, just use a tamper proof return bag (with a serial number) and if it gets to its destination open then one of the links along the way has opened it.
Or even the person themselves returning an item should take more responsibility.

Have you noticed that delivery companies now take a photo of the item they deliver with your front door open?
Why not take a photo of the delivery guy holding the item you return? Or at least in their van with the registration mark captured.
Simply buying some tamper proof tape or returns bag may help.
Good points.

I rarely return things, but for anything valuable I do what I can to prove that I have done so.

This was a mobile that I traded in with OnePlus. The bar code wouldn't scan due to the poor quality of my printer, so I asked the girl in the shop to put her hand on the parcel -
OnePlus.jpg


and this was an item I returned to John Lewis, which I asked the assistant to hold -
IMG_2.jpg


Must admit I felt a bit geeky, but what the heck :smashin:.
 

Thug

Moderator
Must admit I felt a bit geeky, but what the heck :smashin:.
I would rather feel geeky for 2 minutes than robbed of my money for the next few months/years.
 

nvingo

Distinguished Member
But where do they start.
It could be the....
buyer,
collection person,
Possibly dozens of people at their sorting depot,
The dozens of Amazon employee's who have access to it,
Temp staff, who come and go on a daily basis,

There are FAR too many people who could easily be the one to take it, spread out over many towns and even counties, so which force should investigate as the crime could have occurred in any one of them?
This would take a LOT of hours at great expense and still probably wouldn't get anywhere.

Multiply that by the possibly hundreds that go missing on daily basis country wide and you would need a police force twice the size.

May be the companies themselves should take more responsibility...
If the company identify the culprit, surely the activity is criminal - it isn't sufficient to just sack the culprit, how would a prosecution then work? Police or civil? If Police, would that require another investigation and evidence-gathering?
 

Thug

Moderator
If the company identify the culprit, surely the activity is criminal - it isn't sufficient to just sack the culprit, how would a prosecution then work? Police or civil? If Police, would that require another investigation and evidence-gathering?
Its always going to be criminal if someone pinches something.
Its just some companies like to keep it 'in house' to stop the press and scandal involved that will follow.
If you heard that someone was sacked each week for taking things whilst being employed by one of the major delivery companies then you are less likely to use them.

If the police are involved then there will always be an investigation (if in the public interest) to bring someone to justice (not necessarily court).
 

DocSavage

Active Member
I had exactly the same problem when buying a mobile phone via Amazon, however in my case the item was stolen while it was in transit! The seller paid Hermes to track the item and when it suddenly disappeared off their system, the seller immediately contacted the police. Following the investigation it seems the courier was self-employed and sub-contracted by Hermes, so they felt no obligation or responsibility for the theft of the phone as they were not strictly employed by Hernes. I cannot understand how this company can continue to exist with the amount of thefts that occur, even now I have three cases open where orders have apparently been flagged as delivered but they don't know where! Luckily Amazon and their sellers have been really good at rooting out the guilty individuals but have admitted there's no way of stopping Hermes using the same courier/driver in the future.
 

Miss Mandy

Moderator
I had exactly the same problem when buying a mobile phone via Amazon, however in my case the item was stolen while it was in transit! The seller paid Hermes to track the item and when it suddenly disappeared off their system, the seller immediately contacted the police. Following the investigation it seems the courier was self-employed and sub-contracted by Hermes, so they felt no obligation or responsibility for the theft of the phone as they were not strictly employed by Hernes. I cannot understand how this company can continue to exist with the amount of thefts that occur, even now I have three cases open where orders have apparently been flagged as delivered but they don't know where! Luckily Amazon and their sellers have been really good at rooting out the guilty individuals but have admitted there's no way of stopping Hermes using the same courier/driver in the future.

This is the bit that annoys me; how can they decide that this absolves them of any responsibility? I don't care who the courier themselves is actually employed by or contracted to, the contract is with Hermes and this person is operating on their behalf.
 

DocSavage

Active Member
The most annoying thing is when an email arrives from Amazon, to inform you that your account may be terminated because of you've reported too many non-deliveries! Since 2004 I've reported 12 non-deliveries which were either from theft during transit or failure to deliver because of damage sustained during transit; when I've asked Amazon how any of this can be attributed on me, they simply say I need to be more careful with my orders and that my account activity will be monitored for the next 12mths...
 

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