My 5.1 AVR supports Atmos and DTS:X but does not have eARC

dante01

Distinguished Member
Not sure what you mean. It includes height virtualizer so any non Atmos soundtrack can be converted.

But

It also supports Dolby Atmos using 3.1.2 physical speakers.

Please explain 👍


3.1.2 would not include surrounds and is basically no better than what most Atmos enabled sounbars can attain.

Regardless of how you choose to portray Atmos with this AV receiver, it will be a compromise that relies on virtual speakers.

The virtualisation processing it uses was designed initially for use on sidebars.
 

Jay53

Well-known Member
3.1.2 would not include surrounds and is basically no better than what most Atmos enabled sounbars can attain.

Regardless of how you choose to portray Atmos with this AV receiver, it will be a compromise that relies on virtual speakers.

The virtualisation processing it uses was designed initially for use on sidebars.
I have never disputed it's a compromise 😉

I was just querying the assertion that NO 5.1 avr has Atmos and that this one doesn't support physical height capability which it does so is not relying on virtual height if configured as 3.1.2 🙂

Atmos is object based and doesn't specify number of speakers so technically any system is an approximation of where the object should be. The more speakers placed around/above the listener the better that approximation will be
 
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dante01

Distinguished Member
Great.

I stand corrected then :)



By the way, most 7 channel models will not allow you to have an Atmos setup without surrounds. Note that although Atmos is object based, the speakers are still required in order to locate those objects in a 3D space. Also note that even the cinema incarnation of Atmos has a 9.1 disctrete channel based element to it.
 

Jay53

Well-known Member
Great.

I stand corrected then :)



By the way, most 7 channel models will not allow you to have an Atmos setup without surrounds. Note that although Atmos is object based, the speakers are still required in order to locate those objects in a 3D space. Also note that even the cinema incarnation of Atmos has a 9.1 disctrete channel based element to it.

Yes, I agree more speakers good as personally I think you need 5.1.4 to do Atmos justice

I guess there is nothing stopping the other mfrs from providing it on lower models but I think going as far as Atmos support on 2.0 which this one does is certainly an interesting design choice :)
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Yes, I agree more speakers good as personally I think you need 5.1.4 to do Atmos justice

I guess there is nothing stopping the other mfrs from providing it on lower models but I think going as far as Atmos support on 2.0 which this one does is certainly an interesting design choice :)


I'd probably suggest a 7.1.2 setup over and above a 5.1.4 setup, but it would obviously be at the mercy of your room size as to whether you can get back surrounds in the room and correctly acomodated. I'd suggest back surropunds of more importance than an extra pair of height speakers.
 

Jay53

Well-known Member
I have 7.1 now on my aging rx-v667 bit not Atmos :(

But alas my room is not conducive to back surrounds as tried it but they were about 30cm from the listener and didn't work well enough :)

Always wondered which is best for Atmos as if you have an object say tracking above you from front left to rear right surely without x.y.4 it's has to collapse into the rear listener level speakers with 7.1.2?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I have 7.1 now on my aging rx-v667.

But alas my room is not conducive to back surrounds as they would be about 30cm from the listener :)

Always wondered which is best for Atmos as if you have an object say tracking above you from front left to rear right surely without x.y.4 it's has to collapse into the rear listener level speakers with 7.1.2?


THX haven't published anything regarding this, but have run prelimanary tests. They've concluded it is better to have the back surrounds as opposed to sacrificing them in favout of an additional pair of height/ceiling speakers. You apparently lose more by not having the back surrounds than you gain by including more ceiling or height speakers.


I too cannot accomodate back surrounds though. I'm limired to a 5.1.2 setup utilising front height speakers.
 

Jay53

Well-known Member
THX haven't published anything regarding this, but have run prelimanary tests. They've concluded it is better to have the back surrounds as opposed to sacrificing them in favout of an additional pair of height/ceiling speakers. You apparently lose more by not having the back surrounds than you gain by including more ceiling or height speakers.


I too cannot accomodate back surrounds though. I'm limired to a 5.1.2 setup utilising front height speakers.

My vx-667 has served me well and it's a shame it can't handle Atmos as it even has separate front presence speakers connections which probably given Yamaha was the fore runner to Atmos :)
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
My vx-667 has served me well and it's a shame it can't handle Atmos as it even has separate front presence speakers connections which probably given Yamaha was the fore runner to Atmos :)


Yes, Yamaha have included support for additional presence speakers well in advance of Atmos or even Pro Logic IIz.
 

cioannou

Novice Member
No 5.1 AVR includes support for Atmos and or DTS:X. You'd need at least a 7 channel AVR to get Atmos and DTS:X support.

eARC is not a requirement for Atmos or DTS:X. Atmos and DTS:X metadata can be conveyed to an AV receiver via a conventional HDMI connection directly from a source. Even if you've only ARC as opposed to eARC on a TV and the AVR, you'd still be able to convey DD+ inclusive of Atmos metadata. Streaming services use DD+ to package Atmos and DD+ can be conveyed via conventional ARC.

eARC is only required if wishing to pass HD formatted audio from or through a TV such as TrueHD and DTS-HD Master audio or multichannel PCM. These would be sourced via external devices connected to a TV and then would be passed through that TV and out to an AV receiver. eARC would not be needed if the sources device is conncted directly to the AV receiver as opposed to being connected to the TV.

As I said, you'd need at least a 7 channel AV receiver anyway if wanting support for Atmos.
Hello,
I was looking for a correct answer for few months now and i believe dante01 answered my question. I am going to post here anyway so i get a more clear picture of my scenario and my current setup:

My current Setup is as follows:

From nVidia Shield Pro -> to HDMI IN on LG Sound bar
(LAC7 3.1.2 - LG LAC7 3.1.2 ch 380W Dolby Atmos® Sound Bar with Meridian | LG Canada)
From Sound bar -> HDMI ARC (my sound bar does not have eARC) -> LG TV eARC (TV has eARC)

My sound bar supports all the high-res / bandwidth audio formats up to Dolby Vision, Atmos, Dolby True HD etc..

My main streaming device for all movie apps is the NVIDIA Shield. I don't use my TV (Smart apps) for streaming since the shield is much superior.

When i play any Dolby Atmos encoded movie from any source (Netflix, Disney+ etc) or if i play any DTS or DTS:X from a NAS, then i can see on the Soundbar that the LED display changes to the respective Audio format (Atmos or DTS or Dolby Audio etc). That tells me that the Nvidia Shield is passing through the signal and the Sound bar decodes it.


Based on my setup, and what ever i mentioned above, I believe the following question has been already answered on this threat.
1. Do i need eARC capable Sound bar to be able to get FULL Atmos, True-HD etc.. when i am streaming from the NVidia Shield or from my NAS? (Always from NVIDIA Shield)
Sorry if i sound redundant here but i wanted to make sure.
Please confirm :) and thank you.

2. While watching a Dolby Atmos movie, i often realize that when there is a loud scene (explosion, etc) the voices / dialog sound as if they were "drowning" into the loud scenes. (then when the loud scenes are over, voices / dialog is clear again and louder as they suppose to be). This happens only while in Atoms movies.

No sure if this is a Netflix or Disney+ encoding thing or if this is something to do with my Sound bar Settings.

Sound bar Current Settings:
Night mode: OFF // DRC: OFF // Auto Volume: OFF // EQ Mode: Movie // Surround Sound mode: Enabled // Neural:X: OFF

Nvidia Shield:
Passes all content (under advanced sound settings i see that all the Audio Formats are enabled (by default // automatic detection)
Dolby Digital processing option: I turned this off (Sound bar does ALL the work)

TV settings:
HDMI input audio format: Bitstream
Digital Sound Out: Passthrough
eARC Support: ON (not that this will make any difference since my sound bar doesn't have eARC)

If someone give me more info and please let me know if you require any more details from me.

I would really appreciate your answer advice.

Thanks,
 

Jay53

Well-known Member
The only time you need eARC is for outputting the sound from TV sources, either the apps which you say you don't use or any source device connected via hdmi to the TV.

As your shield is plugged into the soundbar you don't need eARC 🙂
 

cioannou

Novice Member
The only time you need eARC is for outputting the sound from TV sources, either the apps which you say you don't use or any source device connected via hdmi to the TV.

As your shield is plugged into the soundbar you don't need eARC 🙂
Thank you for your reply, so I do get FULL Atmos and all other formats the way that they are suppose to be? Yes? Because I was struggling and thinking to upgrade my soundbar lol.
😊
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Hello,
I was looking for a correct answer for few months now and i believe dante01 answered my question. I am going to post here anyway so i get a more clear picture of my scenario and my current setup:

My current Setup is as follows:

From nVidia Shield Pro -> to HDMI IN on LG Sound bar
(LAC7 3.1.2 - LG LAC7 3.1.2 ch 380W Dolby Atmos® Sound Bar with Meridian | LG Canada)
From Sound bar -> HDMI ARC (my sound bar does not have eARC) -> LG TV eARC (TV has eARC)

My sound bar supports all the high-res / bandwidth audio formats up to Dolby Vision, Atmos, Dolby True HD etc..

My main streaming device for all movie apps is the NVIDIA Shield. I don't use my TV (Smart apps) for streaming since the shield is much superior.

When i play any Dolby Atmos encoded movie from any source (Netflix, Disney+ etc) or if i play any DTS or DTS:X from a NAS, then i can see on the Soundbar that the LED display changes to the respective Audio format (Atmos or DTS or Dolby Audio etc). That tells me that the Nvidia Shield is passing through the signal and the Sound bar decodes it.


Based on my setup, and what ever i mentioned above, I believe the following question has been already answered on this threat.
1. Do i need eARC capable Sound bar to be able to get FULL Atmos, True-HD etc.. when i am streaming from the NVidia Shield or from my NAS? (Always from NVIDIA Shield)
Sorry if i sound redundant here but i wanted to make sure.
Please confirm :) and thank you.

2. While watching a Dolby Atmos movie, i often realize that when there is a loud scene (explosion, etc) the voices / dialog sound as if they were "drowning" into the loud scenes. (then when the loud scenes are over, voices / dialog is clear again and louder as they suppose to be). This happens only while in Atoms movies.

No sure if this is a Netflix or Disney+ encoding thing or if this is something to do with my Sound bar Settings.

Sound bar Current Settings:
Night mode: OFF // DRC: OFF // Auto Volume: OFF // EQ Mode: Movie // Surround Sound mode: Enabled // Neural:X: OFF

Nvidia Shield:
Passes all content (under advanced sound settings i see that all the Audio Formats are enabled (by default // automatic detection)
Dolby Digital processing option: I turned this off (Sound bar does ALL the work)

TV settings:
HDMI input audio format: Bitstream
Digital Sound Out: Passthrough
eARC Support: ON (not that this will make any difference since my sound bar doesn't have eARC)

If someone give me more info and please let me know if you require any more details from me.

I would really appreciate your answer advice.

Thanks,


If the source is connected directly to an HDMI input in the soundbar via HDMI then no, you'd not need eARC to be able to access HD formats such as TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio, but if you were sourcing the audio via the TV then yes, you'd need eARC to ba able to convey HD sources from the TV out to the soundbar. ARC is limited to SD lossy formats such as 5.1 DD, DD+ or DTS or just 2 channel PCM. You can however convey Atmos metadata via conventional ARC as long as it is packaged with SD quality DD+ and not TrueHD.

If you were wanting to connect a source directly to a TV and then passthrough HD formatted audio then you'd need eARC. If not wanting to pass HD formatted audio through the TV then you do not need eARC.

Is the NVIDIA Shield connected directly to an HDMI input on the soundbar?




Note that streaming services such as Netflix etc don't use HD formatted audio. Atmos is fasvilitated in conjunction with DD+ encoded audio via such services, not in association with HD Dolby TrueHD.
 
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cioannou

Novice Member
Thank you for the prompt reply, and to answer to your question as if the shield is connected directly to the soundbar, the answer is yes.
Cheers 😊
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Thank you for the prompt reply, and to answer to your question as if the shield is connected directly to the soundbar, the answer is yes.
Cheers 😊


Yeah, as long as the Shiels is configured correctly, the source audio is actually encoded with HD audio and the soundbar has the ability to handle and decode it then you'd not need eARC in ordr to be able to access HD formats, Atmos or DTS:X.
 

cioannou

Novice Member
Yeah, as long as the Shiels is configured correctly, the source audio is actually encoded with HD audio and the soundbar has the ability to handle and decode it then you'd not need eARC in ordr to be able to access HD formats, Atmos or DTS:X.
Do you happen to have any answer or possible cause to my question number 2 in my original post?
Thanks
 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
Your number 2 may not be an actual technical issue. It's only small speakers with small amplifiers connected to them, so it could be that it struggles to reproduce all of the sounds at the same time as keeping the dialogue in clear detail. :)
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Do you happen to have any answer or possible cause to my question number 2 in my original post?
Thanks


It could simply be due to you listening to Atmos soundtracks at volume levels lower than reference. You'd only get the intended dynamic range if portraying the content at reference, but this can be rather loud and it isn't really condusive with most home enviroments. The quieter aspects such as dialogue will not be as distinguisable from the louder effects in such circumstances.

All in all, it is more than likely simply a matter of how the soundtrack was mixed and you not portraying it in your room at the same level as it was mixed at.
 

cioannou

Novice Member
Your number 2 may not be an actual technical issue. It's only small speakers with small amplifiers connected to them, so it could be that it struggles to reproduce all of the sounds at the same time as keeping the dialogue in clear detail. :)
Right, that makes sense 😁😊. Thanks so much for your help.
 

sardas

Novice Member
So my 5.1 receiver supports Dolby Atmos and DTS:X. But it doesn't have eARC. How did they think I will take part of Atmos and DTS:X then?
imagine having a 4k bluray player with hdr10 / dv support and then connecting that player to your AVR which is capable of passing 4k hdr/dv to your TV via hdmi. you can enjoy atmos/ dts:x and watch your movie without eARC.

p.s. if there are any regular 1080p blurays with atmos/dts:x audio your avr won't even need to be capable of passing 4k video to your TV.

eARC only lets you make the connection order different in this situation and you can go bluray player (or any other media source) -> TV -> AVR if both your TV and AVR are eARC capable.
 

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