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My 436XDE: 'grey' blacks

ddlooping

Active Member
Well, would you say steve's photos were quite accurate?
P.S: remember I have tested a Panasonic 37PE50, a 42PE50, a 42PV500 and a few other plasmas by other brands.
 

-Hitman-

Well-known Member
All, this talk about Pioneer blacks being Grey/Black is a load of rubbish!

I have a 435 xde and after calibration the blacks are good, not perfect black but more of a charcoal black and very acceptable, non of this grey/black rubbish!

If it really bothers some that like to watch the screen in an unlit room all the time, then watch the material full screen to remove the black boarders!

I watched a sony CRT the other night in an unlit room and it was far worse than the XDE, the black boarders looked dark blue, awful.

I've had a Panasonic in the past and the blacks were better but only by a few gradients.

Stop parping on and making a major issue on only a minor difference!
 

MAW

Banned
There is a truth in what you say. We are talking the last 5-10% here, but then why the hell not? This is a forum for plasma nuts.
 

Jazz Monkey Jr

Distinguished Member

ddlooping

Active Member
mal600908 said:
I took the photo with no lights on in the room, with a decent digital camera, and represents the blacks on the PV500.
Well, my mate would sure love to have the same black level on his 42PV500. :eek:
In desesperation he even tried the settings you posted a while ago. ;)
 

-Hitman-

Well-known Member
I see where you are coming from but dragging it through the dust for millons of miles is just not needed.
 

gizlaroc

Distinguished Member
ddlooping said:
Well, would you say steve's photos were quite accurate?
P.S: remember I have tested a Panasonic 37PE50, a 42PE50, a 42PV500 and a few other plasmas by other brands.
No, not compared with what I have.

I have turned the source off on my screen before and then left the plasma on all night, if it had been as bright as Steve's photos there is no way I would have missed it.

Steves screen looks more like the Pioneer and NEC that I had. Both my PW6 and HD6 have been more like Mals image of Yoda.
I am very fussy about black levels as I beleive it is the only way to get depth in an image, the Panny panels are the only ones I would personally be happy with and from what I have seen so far the 6G Pioneers still aren't there yet.


I could take a series of shots of my screen tonight with 0ire on it and make it look completely black or very light grey just by adjusting the camera, but what is the point, it really tells you nothing at all.

Look at these two screenshots I took......







The first two are from ny NEC projector and the last one was from my Sony projector. I was never really happy with the blacks because the room was white and reflected too much light, but looking at the pics you would never know, would you?
 

reckless

Novice Member
Dr HTPC said:
All, this talk about Pioneer blacks being Grey/Black is a load of rubbish!

I have a 435 xde and after calibration the blacks are good, not perfect black but more of a charcoal black and very acceptable, non of this grey/black rubbish!

If it really bothers some that like to watch the screen in an unlit room all the time, then watch the material full screen to remove the black boarders!

I watched a sony CRT the other night in an unlit room and it was far worse than the XDE, the black boarders looked dark blue, awful.

I've had a Panasonic in the past and the blacks were better but only by a few gradients.

Stop parping on and making a major issue on only a minor difference!
Hate to disagree but had a sony 32 w/s and my blacks were black, never dark blue. I would suggest that there is something that needs adjusting on that set. The only problem with them normally was picture geometry was usually a bit off. In a dark room the picture was stunning but sadly not big enough and it took up too much room.

I have an XDE and there is absolutely no comparison between them both in a dark room.
 

-Hitman-

Well-known Member
reckless said:
Hate to disagree but had a sony 32 w/s and my blacks were black, never dark blue. I would suggest that there is something that needs adjusting on that set. The only problem with them normally was picture geometry was usually a bit off. In a dark room the picture was stunning but sadly not big enough and it took up too much room.

I have an XDE and there is absolutely no comparison between them both in a dark room.
True, it was an old set but the point i am trying to get across is the blacks are not as bad as everyone is making out.
 

gizlaroc

Distinguished Member
Dr HTPC said:
True, it was an old set but the point i am trying to get across is the blacks are not as bad as everyone is making out.

No, they are worse! :suicide:
 

ddlooping

Active Member
Dr HTPC said:
I see where you are coming from but dragging it through the dust for millons of miles is just not needed.
This is where I'm coming from (view attachment). ;)
As you can see my flat is fairly tiny.
I'd love not to be bothered by plasmas black levels, and replace my Tosh by a PWD8 or PHD8.

I get your point though, and will refrain to make any more comments or ask questions until I can view a properly calibrated PWD or PHD screen.
 

Attachments

-Hitman-

Well-known Member
Not on my calibrated Screen matey, blacks are very acceptable! :lesson:

To put a lid on things, when the light falls below a certain level then Panasonics will be better blacks but this is a minor small percentage that i can definately live with.
 

-Hitman-

Well-known Member
yellowpostit said:
so if i get my 436 calibrated i'll see an improvement in the blacks?
Yes you will, all plasmas require adjustment out of the box and they need re-calibrating every few months as the display decays.

I use DVE and Avia for mine, been doing it a few years, it gets easy to do when your use to it!
 

yellowpostit

Standard Member
Dr HTPC said:
Yes you will, all plasmas require adjustment out of the box and they need re-calibrating every few months as the display decays.

I use DVE and Avia for mine, been doing it a few years, it gets easy to do when your use to it!
have you had it ISF'd as well?
 

-Hitman-

Well-known Member
No, I have set mine up myself, always have.

I can't justify or afford ISF prices especially when you need to re-calibrate every few months.
 

ddlooping

Active Member
Dr HTPC said:
I use DVE and Avia for mine,...
We used DVE on my friend's 42PV500.
The blacks didn't get any blacker.
If anything, he had to turn the brightness back down to where it was before calibration.
(from 0 to about 40 the brightness setting did not have any effect on the black level)

Who knows, maybe he's got a below-par screen. :confused:
 

MAW

Banned
Even ISF is simply not going to make the blacks blacker, or not really measurably. You can get the blacks as black as they will go yourself. Getting the greyscale adjusted to give you more detail in the black is the best you could hope for from calibration, in terms of blackness. Dr HTPC, I really cannot see how your screen is so black, Pioneers simply don't do that, not even when turned off! The screen is grey with no electicity at all!
 

-Hitman-

Well-known Member
MAW said:
Even ISF is simply not going to make the blacks blacker, or not really measurably. You can get the blacks as black as they will go yourself. Getting the greyscale adjusted to give you more detail in the black is the best you could hope for from calibration, in terms of blackness. Dr HTPC, I really cannot see how your screen is so black, Pioneers simply don't do that, not even when turned off! The screen is grey with no electicity at all!
Never said it was so black but better than it was out of the box and definitely better than what Ppl are describing here!
 

MAW

Banned
I guess! I suppose the most contentious part originally was wondering why folks get so uptight about how black their screen is! One thing is for certain, beyond argument. Yours has the blackest bezel LOL!
 

-Hitman-

Well-known Member
MAW said:
I guess! I suppose the most contentious part originally was wondering why folks get so uptight about how black their screen is! One thing is for certain, beyond argument. Yours has the blackest bezel LOL!
Hey don't forget its also the best bezel out there!
 

MAW

Banned
Indisputably. I have never said otherwise, I wish panasonic panels looked as good, they look cheap by comparison, and vieras, PV500s, yuk!
 

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