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My 436XDE: 'grey' blacks

ddlooping

Active Member
Hi all. :hiya:

After having tested a few plasmas in different lightning conditions, my conclusion would unfortunately be this technology cannot deliver good blacks.
Darkish greys are all we can hope for. :(

I think I'm gonna keep my Toshiba 36" CRT for a little longer, even though I'd love to have a wider and slimer screen. :)
 

reckless

Novice Member
It's all about perception. If I see, for arguments sake, a normal daytime scene in which someone is wearing something black then it will look black. Where it becomes really obvious is where the scene you watch is predominantly dark or black and then it becomes dark grey.

It happens on pannys as well (at least it did on my panny 6). As with all these things, there is no perfect solution. Every screen has some sort of defect that will irritate some people: the knack is finding the one with the fault that will irritate you the least. :)

I ended up with a pio because I could see the flicker on a panny. That, to me, was worse than the pio faults which are grey blacks, the way it continues horizontal lines all the way across the screen, judder (although the 435 is far better than the 434 in this respect IMHO), the buzzing from the screen when it's displaying NTSC etc.

The burning question is though: would I buy the same one again? Well, for all it's faults, I'd have to say "yes" although in a perfect world I would have bought the 50" version and a scaler :)

I will go to see the 436 as a matter of interest but I don't believe the hype between different models from Pio or any other manufacturer.
 

MAW

Banned
Every screen has some sort of defect that will irritate some people: the knack is finding the one with the fault that will irritate you the least.
Proper words of wisdom there. And new models are always well hyped, generally with little grounds to do so. After all the only difference between old and new pannys is accepting more 50Hz digital signals. The Pioneer revision seems little more than a facelift.
 

Leerock

Standard Member
I have the same problem with my 435hde.
Before buying it I was hearing a lot of people complaining about pios blacks but I thought that it was not importand for me coz what I was watching in the stores was acceptable for me.
But the problem becomes obvious when you buy the screen, install it in your house and watch dark scenes in a dark room.
IT JUST SUCKS.
The image seems washed out.
I can t live with it.
My father s philips lcd blacks are twice as deep as my pios.
3 months after I bought it I heard that a new version was coming with much improved blacks, and I was going to cry :)
But now I see that the new model sucks too.
I wonder why people keep buying plasmas.
 

tscotsman

Active Member
thats exactly why Ive opted to stay with my order for the Pv500, I still think the general concensus is that its the best plasma on the market for blacks, so ill definitely be happy.
 

MAW

Banned
I wonder why people keep buying plasmas.
I only wonder why people keep buying crap plasmas. I don't class the XDE as 'crap' except for the black levels, even though it's certainly well over hyped. I save my scorn for other, lesser makes which have no blacks and no PQ of any other sort!
 

Badger0-0

Distinguished Member
MAW said:
I only wonder why people keep buying crap plasmas. I don't class the XDE as 'crap' except for the black levels, even though it's certainly well over hyped. I save my scorn for other, lesser makes which have no blacks and no PQ of any other sort!
Hmmm :rolleyes: ;)
 

MAW

Banned
Not even yours, Badger, though it's not my favourite by a long chalk. I speak of the folk J. Clarkson loves to hate. It's their affair what they choose to do with their dogs, plasmas they should leave alone!
 

Leerock

Standard Member
Rahmorak said:
That definitely shouldn't be the case!
I know this shouldn't be the case Rahmorak but unfortunately it is.
Do you think there is a fault with my unit?
My father s lcd is 32 inches.
Is the size importand for the black level?
I think I ve read somewhere about this.The bigger the size the greyer it will look.

Sorry for my crappy english.
 

BeelzebubUK

Member
So from what I gather here before I go ahead with ordering a plasma (the 436 was going to be my plasma of choice) I really need to get a demo in a very dark room and play something dark (such as Pitch Black) to make sure that I'm not going to be disappointed when I use it at home.

From what I've read so far the blacks (greys?) are the main issue with the Pioneers and if I'm happy with that its a cracking plasma.
 

ddlooping

Active Member
BeelzebubUK said:
... I really need to get a demo in a very dark room and play something dark (such as Pitch Black) to make sure that I'm not going to be disappointed when I use it at home...
That's what I would strongly recommend you to do. :smashin:
 

MAW

Banned
It's not without other drawbacks, but black level is the most irritating. If you have big plans with PCs, there are better screens, and RGB scart is not yet all that could be desired. If you already have digital TV, don't buy a TV, buy a panel. More flexible, usually better picture. Folks buy this screen cos it looks so good turned off, don't often stop to consider all the plusses and minuses.
 

chrisw

Well-known Member
I have a PE50 and to be honest, I have the light on for 99% of my viewing so don't really notice this at all. So maybe there's the solution - leave a light on!
 
K

k0rn

Guest
chrisw said:
I know!!! :D
Well do you leave the complete lightning on or just a tiny lamp?

I feel that Plasmas need some darkness in order to show vibrant colours... so the best in regard to black would be just a little light...
 

yellowpostit

Standard Member
k0rn said:
Well do you leave the complete lightning on or just a tiny lamp?

I feel that Plasmas need some darkness in order to show vibrant colours... so the best in regard to black would be just a little light...
Yes, maybe for plasmas it's all about getting the right ambient light, and when you do get it right it helps you perceive the image better.
 

Jazz Monkey Jr

Distinguished Member
I prefer very low light when watching DVD's, I prefer my PV500 when viewing in low light because you get to see how good the picture is...I am still extremely impressed with how good it is and impresses everyone who sees it.

I am glad I found this excellent forum before I made the mistake of buying a crap plasma, it is suprising how different the quality of plasma are.

I am still yet to see ANY defects with the picture on mine and if I had the money back I would buy exactly the same screen.
 

chrisw

Well-known Member
"Well do you leave the complete lightning on or just a tiny lamp?"

I have two 6ft floor standing lamps (uplighters) and they put off a reasonable amount of light - the screen looks good when they are on.
 

BeelzebubUK

Member
This is really putting me in doubt about getting the 436 now.

When the PV500 first came out does anyone know if they had similar teething problems with certain aspects that were later fixed when people were getting a better idea on how to set them up. Or was it a case of they looked great pretty much out of the box ??
 

Jazz Monkey Jr

Distinguished Member
My PV500 was ace out of the box, just a quick tweak with the brightness/contrast using a THX disc when I first got it.

Here is a pic with black in it:

 

gizlaroc

Distinguished Member
Sorry about this ddlooping but......


A PHOTO TELLS YOU NOTHING!!!!!!
 

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