Music on vinyl

Discussion in 'Music & Music Streaming Services' started by vinylman, Mar 10, 2013.

  1. vinylman

    vinylman
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    As those of you who are getting to know me (electronically!) will have worked out - I am a huge vinyl fan. I have bought quite a few records from the 'Music on vinyl' label. This is because they keep releasing fantastic titles of stuff from 60s and 70s that is hard to come by, especially if you want mint condition. However, I wondered if anyone knows where they source their recordings from. They always sound good to my ears but I hope they are not simply using CDs as the master - that would be a terrible shame. Having done an A/B test for a few albums e.g. valleys of Neptune (Hendrix) I can certainly confirm that the vinyl sounds better to my ears than the CD but that could just be because I'm using a really good deck. Grateful to hear back if anyone has more information on this.
     
  2. overkill

    overkill
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    Fret not:-

    "The Netherlands based Music on Vinyl label issues some albums cut from analog sources but mostly from high resolution files sourced from masters that they obtain directly from the labels (at least based on my experience)." Michael Fremer
     
  3. vinylman

    vinylman
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    Cheers Overkill. I really don't know how you find the answers to all this stuff but you're a gem! I'd prefer it if they were only issuing stuff that had been taken from analog masters but I guess that's unrealistic. I do find them to be a very high quality outfit on the whole and they are constantly updating their stock with new releases of old stuff that I really love! I have some great Van Morrison -Astral Weeks and Moondance on their label.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2013
  4. vinylman

    vinylman
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  5. vinylman

    vinylman
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    I emailed Music on Vinyl about their sources and got this reply with a specific link to Hendrix...

    Thanks for your mail.

    We received metal parts from the Jimi Hendrix estate. These were cut from
    the original analogue tapes.
    Our Jimi Hendrix releases are all cut in the US and we use the same metals.

    The Jimi Hendrix Estate in cooperation with Sony Music/Legacy press and sell
    the Jimi Hendrix records for the US market and we (Music On Vinyl)
    press/sell in Europe.

    Best regards,
    Mark Klinkhamer
     
  6. overkill

    overkill
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    Wow! I'm impressed! :eek: I've tried that through the actual reps in the past and got nothing but a stony silence!

    Good customer service. :smashin:
     
  7. vinylman

    vinylman
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    Changing provider - anyone know about the sources/quality of back to black pressings?
     
  8. daveb975

    daveb975
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    Various sources, some digital. I have got some good Back to Black pressings, but they don't seem as consistent as Music on Vinyl.
     
  9. malkit

    malkit
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    Which is exactly what I would want to avoid when buying 60's and 70's reissues obviously this isn't always possible but when company's start using generalizations and vague terms like some and mostly always set's alarm bells ringing for me .

    In the case of Hendrix there are many good remasters that are cut direct from the original tapes.I would (and did) go for the 2010 US legacy reissues over MOV they are all analogue remasters and should still be readily available.Check
    http://www.************/artist/Jimi+Hendrix+Experience,+The for a full listing.
    I also have the Berine Grundman Classic records box set which is superb but may be pricey now.
    Back to Black is Universal Music who would actually be the owners of the original master tapes (if there are any) of the stuff they release (Island Records etc) whether or not they have actually used it to it's full potential or not in the past is a different matter.
    IMHO they have been a bit slow on the uptake and not provided any info regarding source material or processes involved.This seem's to be changing however as with the recent Nick Drake Pink Moon box they made great play of the fact that it was remastered by the original recording engineer John Wood using the original tapes wherever possible so things are looking up.
     
  10. overkill

    overkill
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    They didn't make the generalisation, Fremer did. He asked, they told him, he then stated 'some' as he didn't have the time, or space to list what had been cut from what.

    Your point otherwise, is exactly the one Fremer makes. Don't buy from Vinyl cutters who do make generalisations and aren't keen to identify their sources.

    Simply vinyl are one of these, and I can vouch for the poor quality of their pressings (and the masters used) myself. I have had only one LP of theirs that improved on, or in fact was anywhere near the original, and that was due to groove wear on all the ones I've found, not the mastering.

    As you say, Universal will own many masters, but they, like other modern vinyl cutters have been less than keen to reveal sources in the past.

    However, as HD downloads are proving to be a complete con, as many (too many) are merely upsampled 16/44 tracks, they aren't alone.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  11. overkill

    overkill
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    That's pretty much what I've found. Even series of albums can differ with Back to Black. I have a few of the Cure albums, and they vary in quality from 'very good' to 'pants'.
     
  12. vinylman

    vinylman
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    I have just bought a simply vinyl copy of solid air and it sounds absolutely fantastic! Haven't they just relaunched their company?
     
  13. overkill

    overkill
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    I hope so! :D As Fremer says, they didn't release master information, and some were sonically inferior (by direct comparison) to CD's. It was obvious they'd been mastered from the CD - badly.

    I have heard (to be fair) some pretty good Simply vinyl masters, 'but' even then their pressings often left them down. What's the number of Solid Air? Is it SVLP 501?

    If they've re-launched, hopefully more care will be taken over masters and pressings.
     
  14. vinylman

    vinylman
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    That's the one - SVLP 501. Sounds great. I have compared it to my CD bought in 2003 and it is much better. The detail is incredible.
     
  15. overkill

    overkill
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    I have it, and you are correct sir! I doubt therefore that it was taken from a CD master. ;)

    Remember, the experts aren't always right...
     
  16. vinylman

    vinylman
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    It would seem from their website that SV was relaunched last year...
     
  17. Genco user

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    Gone are the days when you could just go into a record store and the only thing to consider was the artist you want and that's it.Now you have to wonder if the record is just a big con because you are holding what is really just a vinyl CD.I reckon so many young folk who weren't around when records were the only way to hear your favourite artist,don't even realise they are not buying what vinyl records used to be.I fear that new releases which don't use analog sources are not real records and are a waste of time and money.
    What a huge disappointment! I was looking forward to buying records again but now it's been spoiled by the con in the form of digital vinyl.
     
  18. overkill

    overkill
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    There is nothing wrong with using a Digital master for vinyl. James Guthrie used hi resolution Digital Masters for his Re-issues of the Pink Floyd albums on vinyl and these are really popular. CD masters were common in the 90's as these were the only ones available. Everything was made for 16/44 as the market for vinyl was so small, almost non existent. Modern vinyl transfers by contrast are either taken from hi resolution masters, or from the master tapes.

    A little checking goes a long way. ;)

    Bear in mind you cannot, and ignore the idiots who say you can, use a brickwalled CD master for vinyl. As any record pressing engineer, or mastering house will tell you, if you do then mistracking will occur as the stylus cannot handle the modulation caused by the loudness levels. As such a modern Vinyl pressing is going to be your choice - if you don't want to listen to compressed CD's and other Digital media.

    Frankly I'd rather listen to a tape than a compressed CD. And I HATE tapes...
     
  19. Genco user

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    What's a "brickwalled CD master "? I mostly listen to Jazz and I will try to get as many on old vinyl as possible first.I 've just discovered how good a source Oxfam is for such records :).

    You know you've played a tape too much when the artist starts to sound as though they are singing and gargling at the same time.George Benson does not sound so good that way lol.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2013
  20. overkill

    overkill
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    Since CD was introduced the producers, engineers and sad to say, some musicians have sought to make louder and louder Digital masters. Since the early 90's this was spurred on by portable Digital equipment, in-Car CD, CD walkmans and then the arrival of the Mp3 player. To combat external noise the CD's were increasingly mastered to ever higher volumes, resulting ultimately in the 'brickwall effect', which when you see it, is a Waveform with the high and low frequency extremes literally squared off, creating a 'wall' look. There is no way to replace the missing sound once it's gone, hence CD's with a low DR (brickwalled) sound fatiguing as a) they are too loud b) have very limited musical information on them, with an exaggerated mid band, and the bass and treble compromised. Compression also causes the discs to sound harsh as the low frequencies are squeezed out and High Frequency 'glare' is introduced. Basically, the lower the DR, the worse the sound. When Dynamic Range drops below 8 it's not in a good way, below 5 it's awful, less than 4 then put it out of it's misery.

    As such you need to master vinyl with different masters if you are to avoid selling unplayable records.

    That's not to say all CD's are brickwalled or have been butchered by loudness and compression. Many Jazz CD's have been superbly mastered and their DR is up there with the very best recordings. If you want mainstream rock, pop, or even classical albums though, vinyl or Hires discs are increasingly, since the early noughties, the safest bet.

    As Curly will tell you, Oxfam is indeed a good bet for record buying. Ebay is great, but you need to be careful with the description. Any below 'excellent' avoid like the plague.

    Worn tape was the ultimate in sound that has come through a duvet before you hear it....
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2013
  21. Genco user

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    After listening to my new LP of Oscar Peterson from the JazzWaxRecords label,I have changed my opinion a bit re.master sources.I reckon if there was digital technology available "back in the day",there would have been plenty people who would have used it.I recon hi-res mastering is ok.

    The "Oscar Peterson Plays The Cole Porter SongBook" sounds good.The double bass is nice and deep and the piano comes through clear.

    I did what I read you do with new records and washed it which took away the crackles.Now it is silent when it should be and that is from a cheap turntable.
    My used Julie London LP "Sings Soft And Sweet" (Sunset label) from 1968,only has a little faint crackling in one or two places and is good considering it is 45 years old!
     

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