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Multiple amp control with AV32R-EX SP??

Discussion in 'TAG McLaren Audio Owners' Forum' started by laalves, Apr 7, 2005.

  1. laalves

    laalves
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    Having just received my 250x3 (fronts) and 100x5 (all 4 back surrounds, one unused), I tried to configure the channel for TAGtronics bus usage, BUT my AV32R-EX SP v.3.70 does not have a "multiple amp" option as the DP and AV192R do. But it does state "100x5 number 1".

    When I configure one of them to be number 2, as explained in the DP/192 manuals, my SP no longer recognises one of the amps.

    In practice, what happens is that even in stereo (I wanted only two of the 250 channels on) two channels of the 100x5 remain on.

    Short of going DP (the case keeps getting stronger and stronger....) does anyone know of a workaround, that would permit separate channel control of all channels?

    Luis
     
  2. NeilS

    NeilS
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    It should work fine with 2, I used to control a 250*3 & 100*5 from mine before I upgraded to a DP. Have you tried setting the amplifier IDs to 1 & 2?

    Neil
     
  3. Polecatpete

    Polecatpete
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    Are you unplugging from the mains, all the other equipment when you change ID?
     
  4. Polecatpete

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    Neil, did you find that the AV32 either switches on all 4 channels on the 100x5 or none of them? What I mean is, if I'm watching something in 5.1, all 4 surround channels are switched on not just 2 of them. I can't seem to find the root of the cause...
     
  5. Spen69

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    Luis

    Sounds like the old "pull the mains lead out when programming the amps" trick again to me.

    I have had exactly the same kind of set-up with exactly the same problem, so here goes.

    Firstly, check that the AV32R is set to transmit commands on the Tagtronic bus and that the software is at least 3.xx something so it can drive more than one amp.

    Then connect the 3x250R and check it recognises it, and note what software it is running (earlier versions did not support multi-amp operations).

    Then connect the 4x100R and check it recognises it, and note what software it is running.

    Assuming this is all ok, connect them both back up (DON't close the "loop" of CAT5 leads by the way, it is an open-ended connection type of thing) and read the section in the manual about "assigning power amp IDs". I cannot remember exactly the sequece of key presses, but when you are assigning amp 1, switch off and remove the mains lead of amp 2 (and vice-versa).

    Most importantly, note that the keys are pressed in the set sequence with no more than 1 second between them, so you have to be slick.

    I can assure you that a single processor can control 2 multichannel amps - mine has been doing so for years now. It will actually control any number of amps, but can only select channels on the first two connected (I used to have 3 at one point and it switched them all on and off and dimmed the LEDs, just didn't switch the channels which was ok as the third was for my front main speakers anyway so it needed to be on all of the time!)

    Sorry about the non-technical explaination, I have no idea how it all works under the bonnet, I just know how good it sounds!

    Regards - Spencer
     
  6. laalves

    laalves
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    Pulling the mains out of "1" while programming "2".... That one I didn't try, I just switched "1" off and pulled the TAGtronics RJ45 out of "2"; that is not in the manual. It doesn't seem to make much sense BUT.....

    All softwares are the latest, v3.92 amp side and v3.70 AV32 side.

    After programming one of them as "2" and leaving the other one alone, the result was that it still recognised "1" but stopped recognised number "2".

    My TAGtronics cables are linked in an open sequence and correctly in-out.

    I'll recheck all this evening.....

    Luis
     
  7. Spen69

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    Luis - I bet you this is your problem mate. The multichannel amps still receive IR signals even when off for some reason, so pull the mains lead out of the back after you've programmed "1" then programme "2" :lesson:

    Honestly, this catches loads of people out :D

    Let us know how you get on - Spencer
     
  8. laalves

    laalves
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    Yes! :clap: :clap: :clap:

    Thanks all! :thumbsup:

    Exactly the issue! Never forget to pull the plug when needed! Now the things are working great. This TAGtronicbus is really neat!

    This forum once again demonstrates its usefulness!

    Luis
     
  9. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    Ah the old "pull the mains lead out" gotcha strikes once agian and for the second time within a week, Spencer and myself are going to get tired fingers at this rate :D
     
  10. Polecatpete

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  11. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    Have you checked the amp module assignments in the TAGTronic bit of the setup menu's? It is entirely possible to only have the modules you require switched on for each surround mode...
     
  12. Polecatpete

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    Thanks Graham, I've just been in and double checked the settings. For 5.1 audio, it's set to output only 5.1 not 7.1. I've also checked in the Tagtronic bit under Amplifiers, selected the 100x5 and module 1 is set to surround left, mod2 = back surround left, mod3 = not used, mod4 = back surround right, mod5 = surround right. All the other options, (mute, standby, modules etc) are set to on. Any ideas?
     
  13. Spen69

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    Yep, my fingers get tired with this one finger typing lark.... :D

    If all the modules are firing up, set the startup mode of the input to be "direct" so it only chooses left and right. Then when the AV32 decides what signal is on the disc, it should only fire up the required channels.

    I offer this numpty level of advice fully in the knowledge that I have always stuck to good old 5.1 as that is enough speakers for one man's wife to accept in the lounge, and frankly I hear nothing but tales of woe when trying to select between 5.1 and 7.1, DD, DTS Neo, DTS Tupperware GTi turbo or whatever other latest gizzmo is.

    I'm just a simple lad who likes his CDs and happens to play DVDs on his system.. :rolleyes:
     
  14. derekn

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    or whatever other latest gizzmo is.

    QUOTE]

    Hi Spencer,

    This from a guy who always knows what the latest gizmo is - since he usually has it!

    (BTW note alt spelling of gizmo, important for Scrabble) :lesson:

    Regards,

    Derek
     
  15. Polecatpete

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    Hi Spencer, It's not a problem on fire up or direct, they all work as you would expect them to. It's when a 5.1 or 7.1 soundtrack is played, it fires all 4 back channels up regardless and they stay on even though no signal is being fed to the back surround channels. Even if I turn them off with the remote, the processor fires them back up!

    I guess I could just disable them and manually fire them up as required but that kind of defeats the object! Plus, turning on or off the back channels manually, also switches the fronts on/off :D
     
  16. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    What are the default modes listed in the input setup?
     
  17. Polecatpete

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    As quirky as it seems, I re-loaded the software on both the DP and 100X5:7 over the weekend and it seems to have fixed it. Not sure how/why but I'm not going to complain! I've still not received my replacement DP yet (waiting for parts) so maybe there is an issue with the broken one I have at present? Who knows!

    Thanks Graham for your help, much appreciated!
     
  18. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    Ah the old "three fingered salute" would have done the trick then......
    I assume the DP got upset at some stage with the programming of the amp ID's maybe?
    All sorted now which is the main thing....
     
  19. Polecatpete

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    I think second to Joelc, I might be the unluckiest TAG owner! :rolleyes:

    Tell me Graham, does your 250 produce a slight pop from the speaker on switch on (center channel only on mine) and give off a continual fairly loud hum from the amp regardless of time left on?

    I just contacted helpdesk and they think it's in need of some attention... They are just waiting for me to supply the serial number but thought I would see if anyone elses was similar to mine before I part with it for 5 weeks!
     
  20. Stevesky

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    Hi Polecatpete! Just to make sure it's not some ground loop thang disconnect ALL the analog line level cables to the amp (at amplifier side), so all that is connected are the speakers and the mains. If it still hums after that then sounds like its got a fault on it. I assume the hum is coming out the speaker connected to the centre channel, rather than inside the amp itself (ie. the transformer has got noisy)...
     
  21. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    I have the AV volume set to -30dB at start up and never hear any pops from speakers. Is it coming form one of your sources when you turn it on or are you sure it comes from the amp? As for mechanical hum (I assume you mean this and not a hum that emits from the actual speaker?) the 100x5R was known for it (ours have always had a mechanical hum that does not effect sound at all) but the 250x3R is silent really....
     
  22. Polecatpete

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    Hi Steve/Graham, I just unplugged all analogue leads and switched on. The hum doesn't seem to be half as bad as it was (it was as loud as the initial turn on hum you get constantly). I still get a fairly loud pop to the center speaker though. No other sources are switched on. Just the 250x3.

    I've plugged the analogue cables back in and again, it's a normal expected silentish operation so maybe I have a dodgy lead? The pop is still present though... Is this bad news?
     
  23. Polecatpete

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    Sorry I didn't say but yes it is a transformer type noise from inside the amp. The only unexpected noise from the speaker is from initial turn on where I get a sort of pop/thump sound...
     
  24. Stevesky

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    If the hum is inside the amp then the noise must be coming from the transformer, you might find that mains quality fluctuations can increase the hum. Although it won't do any harm if you find it annoying then probably best to get it changed.

    As for the thump does it happen instantly or does the thump occur when the final relay "clunk" occurs when the amp starts to give out audio? You can prove this by switching just the centre channel on and off using the remote by pressing the "2" key. I'm wondering if the output relay has welded its contacts together as the amp can give a bit of a thump under that situation.
     
  25. Polecatpete

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    It's on the final stage just before it clicks into action Steve.

    Is the hum ok then? As long as it's not going to die on me I'm happy to live with it!
     
  26. Polecatpete

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    Or maybe I should say, as it clicks into action rather than just before!
     
  27. Polecatpete

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    It's funny you mentioning about the mains as the hum is a lot louder just after I've had the amp running fairly hard.... After a few minutes, the noise drops off...
     
  28. Stevesky

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    From the sounds of it the hum is just a transformer that has gone a bit noisy. The switch on pop I would be more worried about as that sounds like there maybe a subtle problem lurking. The amp shouldn't give any thumps when the output gets connected so something is not quite right. Unfortunately probably best to send it back tor service to have a look at.
     
  29. AllanG

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    Hi,

    I have also had this quite loud transformer hum from my 250x3R amp ever since I bought it 18 month ago. Initially, I returned it to TAG, who replaced the left channel stand-by power supply, and returned the amp, with a comment that after extensive soak-testing, the amp was as quiet as a mouse!

    Naturally, as soon as I plugged it in at home, the b.....y thing started humming!!

    After further discussions with TAG, I tried the amp in a completely different location, (read mains supply, with no speaker or analogue cables connected), and guess what............no hum!

    So, I have put the problem down to 'dirty' mains supply at home, which is far more noticeable during the evening, when I suppose everyone if draining the grid!

    Anyway, I now live with this hum, though I am not happy with it............especially as my previous 100x5R was absolutely silent...........it looks like the 250x3R is more susceptible to mains borne noise?

    I hope this puts your mind at ease?

    Brgds,

    Allan
     
  30. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    Seeing as you will almost certianly only have one ringmain per floor (or even house), if the noise goes away when using another socket either the original socket is somehow faulty (poor connections or loose earth maybe) or another bit of kit plugged into the same socket (2 gang socket!) or distribution board is causing the issue. i.e. find the problem don't mask the issue.
    Personally I find the 250x3R far better on mechanical hum than the 100x5R, well I did until people started this conversation. Frankly I find it rather disappointing that good quality UK mains can upset a well built amp in this way, did TAG change supplier of the Toroidal transformers?

    I would always suspect the RCA interconnects first when dealing with hum but in the case of mechanical hum from the transformers there isn't a great deal that can be done apart from swapping them out until you get a quiet set which is a bit silly really..... Any manufacturer that blames the UK standard mains (assuming they don't have a general mains problem) for amp hum is running out of excuses really IMHO, it simply shouldn't be an issue.....
     

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