Multi LNB Setup on 60cm Hi-Gain Satellite Dish

ant_thomas

Novice Member
Hi,

My current setup is a Sky Zone 2 dish (I think it's Zone 2 but that's not relevant) with a quad LNB set at 28.2 as you'd expect. I also have a 2nd dish - a 60cm Hi-Gain Circular Satellite Dish. This dish has a quad LNB too. I can currently easily pickup 13E, 19.2E and 23.5E on this dish by manually moving the dish. I want a multi LNB setup to prevent the moving. I have some 4x1 Diseqc switches in use.

I'm in Bury near Manchester

I'm looking to pickup 7E or 10E too. I'd like the 2nd dish to have 3 LNBs picking up 19.2E, 13E and one other satellite.


Is it possible to pickup 7E or 10E on a 60cm dish in my location? (I'm thinking I might struggle)

Would it be better to point at 13E and have 7E/10E and 19.2E offset?

Is it fairly easy to align multiple LNBs? or is it a case of trial and error?

I've looked on eBay at multi brackets and a lot just look like a flat piece of metal with a few holes....so would it really be that hard to make one at home?

Should I just go and buy an 80cm dish instead? Though I'd rather not do that since my 60cm dish is big enough as it is!
 

logiciel

Moderator
You've done well to keep getting different satellites simply by moving the dish!
With that level of skill you won't have any problem getting 13, 19, and 23.5 on a bracket on that dish.
The enthusiasts here will tell you it's time to replace it with a motorised system.
Here's the footprint for 4.8E: http://www.satbeams.com/satellites?norad=32299.
We don't hear much about 7 and 10 on the forum but you can check their footprints too.
 
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ant_thomas

Novice Member
A motorised system would be ideal if I could get it working with my multi tuner system. Motors only seem to have one input.
 

pedro2000uk

Distinguished Member
A motorised system would be ideal if I could get it working with my multi tuner system. Motors only seem to have one input.
it's the lnb that has 1, 2 4 or 8 input options - the second lnb connection for twin tuners bypasses the motor & goes straight to the lnb as do any other tuners

[Just installed one with a quad with a twin tuner main receiver & a second receiver - ]

but the best is twin motorised [we use that] 2 motors 2 dishes .
 
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kevkbuk

Distinguished Member
Is it fairly easy to align multiple LNBs? or is it a case of trial and error?

I've looked on eBay at multi brackets and a lot just look like a flat piece of metal with a few holes....so would it really be that hard to make one at home?
Very easy if you can align a dish... just remeber the signal is reflected from the dish to the opposite side of the LNB arm that it is received from. Yes you can DIY a bracket if your so inclined.
 

logiciel

Moderator
Motors only seem to have one input.
:confused:
A motorised dish usually has an LNB with one output.
As Pedro says though it doesn't have to be that type, so what are your actual needs for the "multi-tuner"?
 

ant_thomas

Novice Member
I have two PCI tuner cards on a Linux system running VDR and it's easier to have both tuners being able to tune to all the LNBs, rather than have it setup that only one tuner can tune to certain satellites, so in this case a multi dish multi motor would be better, but not very practical. So I think I'll go for a multi LNB setup because I want to be able to watch whatever combination of channels I want to on whatever satellites, especially since I might add more tuners in the near future.

Thanks for mentioning the opposite reflection for the positioning of the LNBs, I hadn't thought of that!
 

pedro2000uk

Distinguished Member
Unless you go for a much bigger dish or a dedicated double reflector dish made for multi LNBs, some channels on 7e &/or 10e will be a struggle to get good margin on a standard 60cm offset dish, especially via diseqc switches & PC cards & adding 23.5e might make it & 13e not ideal, I'd forget the high gain claims - any regular offset dish will only perform about it's surface area's abilities - quality is a good thing to look for though.

You would do better on a Sky zone 2 (60) with multi lnbs- the horizontal oval design lends itself to multi lnbs far better than a traditional vertically oval offest 60- we've done 28e 13e & 5w on a zone 1.
 
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logiciel

Moderator
My quick check of 5E made it look impracticable - is it actually better than it looks - and what about 7 and 10?
 

pedro2000uk

Distinguished Member
My quick check of 5E made it look impracticable - is it actually better than it looks - and what about 7 and 10?
not sure I understand those points - can you expand it a little
 

hal8000

Novice Member
I would proably go for a larger dish 80cm or 1metre to collect more signal. I'm in S Yorkshire (very similar latitude to you) and the signal at 7E and 10E are weaker than signals from 13E,19.2E and 28.2E.

If you do align the dish yourself it has to be perfectly perdendicular
otherwise the arc it will track will be skewed. (I tried and failed but called in a local satellite company to align my dish). A motorised setup is best for tuning multiple sats. I use motorised on my Dreambox but just have a smaller fixed dish for freesat.
 

logiciel

Moderator
http://satbeams.com/satellites?norad=32299 for Astra 4A at 4.8E puts the UK on the edge of the footprint, so what do you think of that in terms of possible reception, and also what experience do you have of 7 and 10?
 

pedro2000uk

Distinguished Member
http://satbeams.com/satellites?norad=32299 for Astra 4A at 4.8E puts the UK on the edge of the footprint, so what do you think of that in terms of possible reception, and also what experience do you have of 7 and 10?
Any beam with a footprint far away from the UK would not be receivable on a small dish in the UK ... here are the different beams at 4.8e here are different beams at 7e & here the beams at 10e ...

every install above about 70cm gets 4.8e, 7e & 10e ... but not the African beams on those.....

28e has an African beam that requires a big dish
 
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pedro2000uk

Distinguished Member
How big is big for these? I've noticed some channels show sports FTA.
We've been asked a few times to install for the footy on the African beam on 28e including recently for a 5m in London, but sky/ freesat are on there too & already very powerful so there is the issue of being swamped by massively amplified sky/ freesat signals, so as much work if not more has to be done to block/ filter those ...

So it's not just dish 'size' - it's as much to do with filtering. The German guy featured on the Dr Dish programs used his homemade 8m to just about get 19.2e German channels in Brazil - but there he had no really strong signals from 19.2e or any other satellite in that part of the sky.

7w is a good example of bleed over - the new satellite Atlantic Bird 7 has been great with all the new free movie channels on it ... but it has also made it harder to get Nilesat 101/102 because of it's higher power - it bleeds over them- luckily most of those are already in 26e/BADR4.
 

ant_thomas

Novice Member
So I guess the general consensus is that my 60cm dish won't be big enough to get a decent signal, which is a shame. I've only recently bought it too, tempted to buy an 80cm dish now!
 

pedro2000uk

Distinguished Member
So I guess the general consensus is that my 60cm dish won't be big enough to get a decent signal, which is a shame. I've only recently bought it too, tempted to buy an 80cm dish now!
you can still do a lot with a 60 if you stretch it, you can still get so many sats to work - but you will suffer low margins & low rain fade etc. on weaker sats &/or sats on the outer edges - it's actually harder to do a good [big] multi lnb setup than motorised as the motorised aims all the dish at each sat& even a sky dish on a motor can get 30+ sats - on multis you end up with only the middle sat getting all the dish's power- the rest get less & less signal the further out you go so you need a bigger & bigger dish [or better wider] or dedicated double reflector for multi lnbs and as I said - it makes it % harder with any noise/ loss on diseqc switches & pc cards.
 

ant_thomas

Novice Member
I would much rather use a motorised system but I think it'll be less useful/more difficult to get setup with my current system.

After checking the channels I want I've realised that 4.8E is probably out of the question but according to Satbeams I might have a chance with 10E on the Europe beam

Now I've done some more research I will probably only want 10E to 19.2E (maybe 23.5E) so the range in terms of degrees isn't that large from what I've seen and read. Most brackets seem to quote a 20degree width and I'm within that, obviously it's all to do with footprint and signal quality.

I suppose it makes sense to try with my 60cm dish first rather than buy a new dish for it not to work.

Does the quality of the LNB make a huge difference? I was going to buy a couple more of the Zinwell Quad LNBs since they're cheaper than dual LNBs and it gives room for further expansion in the future.
 

pedro2000uk

Distinguished Member
I would much rather use a motorised system but I think it'll be less useful/more difficult to get setup with my current system.

After checking the channels I want I've realised that 4.8E is probably out of the question but according to Satbeams I might have a chance with 10E on the Europe beam

Now I've done some more research I will probably only want 10E to 19.2E (maybe 23.5E) so the range in terms of degrees isn't that large from what I've seen and read. Most brackets seem to quote a 20degree width and I'm within that, obviously it's all to do with footprint and signal quality.

I suppose it makes sense to try with my 60cm dish first rather than buy a new dish for it not to work.

Does the quality of the LNB make a huge difference? I was going to buy a couple more of the Zinwell Quad LNBs since they're cheaper than dual LNBs and it gives room for further expansion in the future.
19.2e & 23.5e are strong so you'd aim to put 10e nearer the middle & if you have a better performing lnb then you could use that on 10e - btw.. you should get 9e too from the 10e lnb on a 60.

Those Zinwell lnbs are really for sky dishes & have horizontally oval feedhorns/ scala ring designs inside matched to the sky dish & a little in-built skew for 28e plus usually not 40mm - but you can get them to work quite well & they are cheap.

20 degrees on a standard offset 60? possibly on very strong sats .. but that figure of 20 degrees is based more on using an 80cm.
 

ant_thomas

Novice Member
Thanks for the great advice!

I'll aim closer to 10E to try and get a better signal from that and have 13, 19.2 and 23.5 as my outer LNBs. I will obviously tweak this when I get to setting it all up.

I doubt that it'd be much interest to most people but I'll try and take a few photos once my dish is up and running with multiple LNBs and describe it fully since I'm the sort of person who likes to see actual photos and descriptions of peoples setups to help my own.
 

logiciel

Moderator
Yes, that would be interesting.
Also to know what you want them for - what you'll be watching.
 

ant_thomas

Novice Member
It's going to be mainly for Sports/Football (I know, the usual reason!). The ongoing quest for 3pm broadcasts with English commentary.

But to be honest a big part of why I want to do this is because I can. In the last 12 months I've become really interested in Satellite TV, the technology and seeing what I can and cannot pickup and since LNBs are fairly cheap I thought I'd give it a go.

My current setup is

The 2 dishes mentioned below.
2 Diseqc 2.0 4x1 switches
Linux system with 2 x TBS 8920 PCI DVB-S2 cards running ubuntu minimal and VDR as a backend
XBMC-PVR on ubuntu minimal as my frontend to watch the broadcasts
 

logiciel

Moderator
I said it would be interesting, and it is.:thumbsup:
 

kevkbuk

Distinguished Member
You'll need to buy some slimline LNBs, 13E & 19.2E almost touch on a 60cm dish using standard size LNBs. You'd have no chance of getting 10E & 13E side by side and may have issues with 23.5 also.
 

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