Question Motion handling rubbish on Sony XE90

Discussion in 'Sony TVs Forum' started by bestseany, Nov 14, 2017.

  1. bestseany

    bestseany
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    I bought a 55” Sony XE90 last week. The picture quality is outstanding, but I’m really disappointed with the motion handling on it.

    It’s like the response time isn’t good enough on the panel or something. Anything that pans fast across the screen, like a lamp post or fence railings for example, causes blur or judder. Even faces moving too quickly causes a loss of detail.

    I’ve tried all the motionflow settings. It helps but the judder is still there. Film mode does fix it, but I hate the artefacts and SOE it causes.

    Is this normal for a large 4K screen? My old Sony W5500 46” 1080p TV never had this issue, and neither does the 32” Samsung in my kitchen.

    Maybe I’m missing a setting or maybe it’s actually faulty? It looked fine in the shop and all the reviews praise its motion abilities.

    I’m at a bit of a loss with it now and on the verge of returning it. Any advice?
     
  2. Goldorak

    Goldorak
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  3. ryanvincent

    ryanvincent
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    Motion issues do not indicate a fault but more of incorrect settings.
    I personally think Sony has the best motion out their.
     
  4. bestseany

    bestseany
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    I’ve tried the best picture settings and it did help, although some with a flat edge panning fast across the screen does cause a juddery trail.

    The settings did wash the picture out a bit so I lowered the black level and turned on the contrast enhancer. This made the motion worse though.

    I keep hearing about how Sony’s are the best at motion. Does that mean this is as good as it can be?
     
  5. ryanvincent

    ryanvincent
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    Trailing is something which VA type panels will always have due to slow pixel response time, most people just get used to it.
     
  6. bestseany

    bestseany
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    Is it more noticeable with larger 4K screens?

    My old 46” Sony was a VA panel but that was fine with motion. It was only 1080p though.
     
  7. ryanvincent

    ryanvincent
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    Yeah the larger the more it will be noticeable, same applies to things like backlight bleed.
     
  8. bestseany

    bestseany
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    Would an IPS screen or an OLED be better?
     
  9. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    Is this on 24/25fps content or do you still see it on 50/59.94fps content too?
     
  10. bestseany

    bestseany
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    Just normal HD broadcast tv programmes so 50 I assume.
     
  11. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    HD broadcast TV in the UK can be either 25p or 50i native.

    Drama, Movies and most Documentary content is originated at 25p (and although broadcast 50i there is no 50Hz motion as both fields in the 50i frame are sources from the same 25p frame)

    Entertainment, Sport and most News content is shot 50i native (or close to) (and the two fields in the interlaced frame are captured 1/50th second apart)

    I see terrible artefacts on 50Hz native content on my 49XE9005 in all modes but Game - as it drops / repeats frames otherwise. On 25p originated content this is far less visible.
     
  12. bestseany

    bestseany
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    Every HD broadcast I tried had the issue. There was also a constant stutter using motionflow and lots of artefacts, so I ended up returning it.

    I’ve got an LG B7 now to see if OLED was any better but that too exhibits an annoying amount of blur and judder without trumotion enabled.

    I’m starting to mourn the loss of my old tv!
     
  13. pinok

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    I've also tested lately 55C7 OLED and 65XE90 Sony, played with settings for long time and it was not possible to remove judder from panning shots on both of them.
    My 8 year old plasma is in another league, and even 4year old Samsung have no problem with the same content.
     
  14. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    How do 50Hz native broadcasts compare to 25/24Hz native content?

    50Hz native stuff is sport, entertainment shows like Strictly and X Factor (but not the location films which are 25Hz), 25Hz stuff is most drama and documentary.

    24/25Hz native content inherently has some motion judder (it's shot at a low frame rate and usually with a 180 degree shutter - which means it only captures 50% of the duration of each frame)

    I guess I'm used to seeing both formats in their 'native' form - as I sit in broadcast quality control rooms all day and see stuff 'as it is' - but I don't see the judder-free panning shots on any TV when watching 24/25Hz content, without horrible, artefacty frame interpolation like MotionFlow being enabled. I put up with the judder because it is the basic physics of the motion capture being used.

    It's far less obvious on 50Hz content because it captures at twice the image rate - so you get smoother motion, less judder on fast pans and tracks etc.


    What I HAVE realised is that it is increasingly tricky to inhibit the motion processing on some TVs. I know my Sony XE9005 has issues, and a friend has similar - but not identical - issues with his Panasonic OLED display. Getting a TV to display just what it is fed, cleanly and clearly, in the same way a monitor in an edit suite or control room would, is increasingly difficult it seems...
     
  15. HellooBean

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    I bought this tv because it was supposed to be one of the best motion handling tv's but I still see judder it's so annoying. Tried every setting. Annoying as hell.
     
  16. bestseany

    bestseany
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    I tried an OLED and the motion was much better.

    However, I did take that back in the end and bought an XE85 on a cheap deal.

    The motion is similar to the XE90 but as it’s half the price I can live with it.

    I currently using motionflow in custom with smoothness on max, clearness on 1 and film mode on low. That helps quite a lot without any SOE, but it doesn’t get rid of the issues completely.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
  17. meltonglyn

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    Do you see it if you change to game mode? That gets rid of it for me. I get this issue on every other mode (and don't particularly like game mode either)
     
  18. bestseany

    bestseany
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    It’s worse for me in game mode as motionflow is disabled apart from BFI.
     
  19. meltonglyn

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    Ok, sounds like you have a different issue to me then, haven't noticed that. I use game for sports and then truecinema and film mode low for everything else.
     

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