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Mother of a driver...

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Building DIY' started by IronGiant, Jul 24, 2004.

  1. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Some of us from the Rel 100Qe home build team have expressed concerns that the driver is not up to coping with the latest films.

    Just to experiment, I am in the process of swapping these over..,

    The original driver on the right weighs in at 3kgs, the new kid is 12kgs from the world of car audio. I couldn't get it into the box, because it's a tiny bit wider than the original, so I flipped the box on it's back, stuck the driver on top upside down and we were blown away by it's performance...
     

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  2. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    The old driver certainly doesn't look very substantial! I've got a Peerless XLS10 in my sub which I know is fairly beefy :)

    What's the new driver model? It certainly looks impressive and 12kg is very heavy!
     
  3. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    it's a grey import, so i'm not exactly sure what it is :)
    It's badged up as SHARK
    XSub12 1200w 12inch Subwoofer - The Rock
    Impedance: 2x4 Ohm
    Power: 1200 Watt max
    700w RMS
    Dual Voice coil
    2,5" 4 -Layer KSV
    Freq.: 20Hz - 1,5 kHz
    Spl: 98 dB
    120 oz Magnet
    Vas: 44 Litre
    Xmax: 1"
    Depth c. 22 cm
    20Hz - 1,5 kHz
    Continuous Power (RMS) 400
    Thiele-Small Params.
    Qmas 5,0177
    Qes 0,9125
    Qts 0,4650
    Vas 42,3595

    Dave
     
  4. Hysteria

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    Oh my!. That is a rather large driver.
     
  5. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    I've used some Shark gear before (mainly cabling and connectors) and think it's very good stuff.
     
  6. ReTrO

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    If I had the time and money I think I would try a Peerless XLS12 and a pair of the passive radiators. That driver looks fun though. :) What did it cost?
     
  7. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Alleged RSP was £139, I paid £59 ex VAT. The chap who imports these has a forum stuffed full of complaints of shoddy service and poor goods, but my experience was it came on time, was well packed and is a seriously nice bit of kit. As a straight replacement for the BK driver in RELinquished it is seriously rattling the house in simple dolby prologic... WAF... Jackie would like me to leave the cone visible
     

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  8. theritz

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    Like to tell us a little bit more ? :) . like where you got it...Point us at a URL !! It certainly looks like a monster, are you going to use it as a direct replacement ? The xmax is frightening................ :D :D Have you tried some of the "dificult" passages on it - opening of AOTC, opening of LOTR FOTR etc. - the ones which distort the BSB 12.....................


    Sean.
     
  9. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    It was properly fitted into the box less than 2 hours ago and the silicone is still setting (decided to go for a silicone seal). While I'm desperate to try it out on some troublesome scenes I am also aware it is my 17th Wedding Anniversary today and as Jackie is watching Waking the Dead, I need to wait. :D

    I would prefer to road test it myself before passing on any reccomendations

    I do plan to do this tonight, so please don't go to allyourbass.co.uk and click on subwoofer... :lease: :devil:
     
  10. ShinObiWAN

    ShinObiWAN
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    I have some experience with these, or rather my brother does - he used a pair of them in his car audio setup a while ago.

    He bought his from ebay but the seller also has a store here:

    http://www.allyourbass.co.uk/?productid=63&refid=4

    They aren't bad for car audio but haven't heard them in the home. The only problem we had was the fact one of them was faulty and sounded much quieter than the other, took ages for a replacement too.
     
  11. ShinObiWAN

    ShinObiWAN
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    :rotfl: :hiya:

    I see you got them from the same place as he did.

    I must be losing my mind because I didn't spot the fact you posted where you bought them from before I posted that above.
     
  12. theritz

    theritz
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    Dave,

    Congrats on the wedding anniversary................. :clap:

    ................. :D , OK, at least I'll wait, but really would like your impression of the "trouble spots"..... :smashin:

    Just spotted the pic of the driver mounted in the enclosure - it looks evil !!

    Sean.
     
  13. theritz

    theritz
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    BTW, Mrs Ritz say you know the way 1st annivsersary is Paper on up to Gold for the 50th................ she want's to know if the 17th is "Subwoofer" !!!! :smashin:


    Sean.
     
  14. Mat-Moo

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    I'd be interested to see how this runs? Your running the 8ohm panel and splitting it to the 2x4ohm channels? I'm seriously enjoying the extra bass relax-12 is giving, but I would love it to go deeper, and have more punch! Especially for that kind of price, would stop me from starting again (Altough getting the kit of Gary to do a Sonotube is also very tempting!)
     
  15. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Didn't get a chance to test it out last night, I'll try tonight

    Edit:

    And yes I'm running the 2 4 ohm coils in serires from the BK 100 watt panel.
     
  16. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    As a quick test I'll try and fire up AOTC and see if I get a buzz or a thrum at the beginning when the ship comes in, Might not happen until the weekend now, with young kiddies to pack off to bed and try to keep there. (ie not wake up)

    Dave
     
  17. Mat-Moo

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    Hurry Up :)
     
  18. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    My rule of thumb if I was tinkering with RELinquished (My REL100 Clone) was to set it up so that Phil from Location, Location, didn't have too much resonance in his voice. I quickly set the new driver to a similar setting during Location, Location tonight to keep his timbre at normal levels and was interested to note it wasn't much different from how I'd set the BK speaker.

    So I thought we'd pick the problematic start of AOTC, as we were short on time.

    First comment from Jackie as the music started was that it sounded much cleaner. Bass much tighter.

    Then the ship came in.

    There was no distortion, no buzz, just a deep something that kept on going to real depths of physical sound pressure and low levels we have never encountered. :lease: make it stop :clap: :rolleyes:

    But we had to stop, because we couldn't have watched the rest of the film without seriously damaging our hearing/health. The sound sounded perfect but it was like being hit with a sledgehammer. This is an awesome beast but might need a bit of fine tweaking :smashin:

    Dave
     
  19. theritz

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    Dave,

    Result !! :smashin:

    Look forward to reading your final analysis but it sounds like a move up the ladder. Is there any noticeable lack of volume ?? Do you have to trun the gain up more ? The driver is rated well over the capability of the panel amp - I've wondered whether it's ok to run a class driver such as the shiva or lab12 which are rated at 400 - 600W (whatever) with an amp rated at 100W output - probably confusing myself :confused: ??


    Sean.
     
  20. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    We were both staggeringly impressed (and Jackie won't mind me saying she didn't see what was wrong with the old one). Lack of volume is not a problem we were on about 8'oclock on the BK panel and it was far too much for our tender bodies/ears to cope with.

    This is no extra gain on the amp at all it was taking the same input and doing so, so much more with it

    Whether it can be subtle remains to be seen, the landing scene is not a test of subtlety and I know you all wanted to know how far it could go. Jackie already wants to throw some Classical music ie Mahler at it.

    But yes, it's a very nice driver, to cram it in the same box and get such a difference is staggering.

    To misquote Alladdin "awesome power, little bitty living space"

    If it works i'll rename it "Genie"

    Cautious enthusiastic thumbs up, but until it beds in, I've SPL'd it and really listened to it; rush out and buy one at your own peril. I did but think I got away with it.

    :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

    Dave
     
  21. Mat-Moo

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    Tempting! Going to keep my eye on that volt driver, although building a whole new cabinet and the size is slightly off putting. This seems like a cheaper easier upgrade but maybe not as classy. I always thought the bsb 12" driver looked a bit weedy and I think it does show, but for the price you can not complain!
     
  22. ShinObiWAN

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    Maybe not as classy? :laugh:

    The Volt is in a different country compared to all these subs. Its not an SPL monster, its one purpose is to provide the most succinctly refined bass experience possible.

    Comparing it to SPL drivers and £25 is just heresy! I'm sure you're aware but its used in PMC and Quested designs that cost from £12,000 to £20,000 just for a pair of speakers, so you know its a bit special ;)

    Anyways might not be selling it afterall since I'm deeply dissapointed in my new SVS CS-Ultra and may sell it on - thats if its not a fault which is causing the performance problem and it just turns out its a genuinely dissappointing sub(for me) :)
    In that case I'll be finishing the Volt sub and keep that instead.
     
  23. Mat-Moo

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    He He :) Well make you mind up, I'm watching that Volt closely!
     
  24. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    ShinObiWAN you make a very good point.
    I shudder to think how much that VOLT driver costs and it is clearly many, many classes way above what we are talking about here, like thousands of pounds. (But you did put it on ebay for 99p)

    Just for the record, the reason I want to SPL it is to see how flat it's response is, not how loud it can go :D

    But what we are talking about here is whether it is worth upgrading the £27 pound woofer that a lot of us here bought to make a certain home brew sub ie. a REL-alike, and some are now worried about.

    I picked this Shark driver up as grey import from the far east for very much less than the price of a Shiva but with up to twice as much on paper performance. And some of them presumably in the wrong direction. So I should probably be missing out on something, be it sound quality, lifespan or whatever.

    I am simply experimenting in improving the current crop of REL100 clones for tightness and depth but using the same box and amp, so i've just bought a driver of questionable quality/origins which didn't break the bank to see if I could improve things. So this was meant as a risky experiment.

    Dave

    Edit: Dare I suggest that I suspect my one shark driver in a REL100 clone box in my 32 foot living room doing the LFE for ATOC might sound a little different than two did in Shinobiwan's brother's car?
    In jest,
    Dave
     
  25. theritz

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    Dave,

    Don't mind him................ :D Look forward to reading more on this "experiment"........... certainly sounds worthwhile.


    Shin,


    Don't let Ian J hear that................... :laugh:


    Sean.
     
  26. Mat-Moo

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    Don't you people ever go to bed :)

    ShinObiWAN don't get me wrong, if I got that volt, I'd be starting from scratch, probably down the sonotube route with my current amp as an external box (for easy upgrade). I know it's WAY classier than my £25 driver, and after some more playing with this driver I am aware at it's limitations. More and more of the *car* subs seem to be coming out as dual 4 ohm meaning that we have a potentially cheap upgrade for better performance. Unfortunately I don't really have too much money to chuck about at the mo, which was why I decided to build the sub in the first place (And I'm still chuffed with it!)
     
  27. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Morning all :)

    Dave
     
  28. theritz

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    And a very good morning to you...........................

    A couple of (unasked-for) suggestions for sub testing ????


    (LOTR fans look away now....... I'm about to describe your fave food in terms you mightn't like !!)
    Opening scene FOTR - Voldemort's (oops I mean Sauron.... :D ) helmet falling, the "whoosh" when he implodes/explodes...

    "Ring Drop", and "The Eye" when Bilbo is leaving the Shires - just a couple of chapters in... I like the ring drop, because there shouldn't be any overhang... the same with the bit when Gandalf touches the ring - real jump in your seat moment..

    Darla "pinging" the tank has to be tried - but it is destruction material....

    Minority Report - Chase around the Lexus factory with the "air" guns....

    Regards,

    Sean.
     
  29. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Yep I'll certainly try out those first three, but I don't have Minority Report.

    Dave
     
  30. ShinObiWAN

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    Hi Dave,

    Sorry about that, I didn't mean to come over all elitist when spouting that stuff about the Volt.

    I was just drumming up some support for my auction in the hope that I get as much of my outlay back as possible :)

    As you know I too built the Rel clone after seeing designs from yourself and Retro. I prefered it for music over the XXX.

    I commend your efforts to better the standard BSB 12" driver.

    From memory the Rocks sounded brutal in the car. They certainly had that grab you by the danglies quality. Obviously I've never heard them with subtle stuff and the same sub in the home will sound completely different again.

    Keep us updated!
     

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