Most seamless layer changing DVD...

denon 2900 layer change was totallly unnoticeable. Better than even marantz 9500 which has a very slight pause!!
 
chris said:
I've had a 626,525,656,565,360 and they have all had it.

I had (still have) the 525 and the layer change was noticable on that. I have watched just as many, if not more, movies on the 575 and not noticed any layer change.

To be honest, even if it did have a layer change there's *no way* I'd part with this machine. It is an excellent player....

As is my new Oppo which, though early days, I haven't noticed a layer change on either... yet...PJ :)
 
I'm as guilty as the next man for bitching about half-second layer changes, but it was only a few years ago that I was watching T2:SE on PAL LD.

A 2 discer, with the film spread over 4 sides. So changing each side took a minimum of 26 seconds on my CLD1750. :eek:

Kinda puts things into perspective. :rolleyes:
 
Actually that does not put anything into perspective but just shows how desperate you were to get a tiny bit of extra quality.
Fact is, that layer changes are simply due to poor engineering. Or has anybody EVER seen a layer change on a PC? I haven't. But almost every DVDP has layer change issues.

Strangely, it is hard to say what's at fault. A buffer does not seem necessary, as some cheap players with no buffer have hardly any layer changes or equally fast ones to the ones with buffers.

As I said before, I have a 3 year old Cyberhome DVDP. The drive was not working properly anymore, I couldn't access special features (I presume they are on the second layer and the player had trouble jumping right onto the second layer wihtout context) and the layer changes had always been noticable.

Now I simply swapped the drive against a 4 year old DVD drive which once was in a friends ALDI PC. Removed regional coding and built it in. The DVDPlayer remains exactly the same and simply has a new drive. And voila, everything works perfectly and fast and there has not yet been a single layer change!
So although no buffer, no software change no nothing except for sticking in a new drive, everything is the same but the layer change is gone.

So clearly, if there is a layer change, he engineers simply did not build a good DVDP.
 
damenace said:
Actually that does not put anything into perspective but just shows how desperate you were to get a tiny bit of extra quality.

That's harsh. From what little I've seen of LD it was more than a "tiny bit" better than VHS. Not least in the sound stakes. And I don't see it as desperate, I see it as normal to have a go at some sexy new technology. It often comes with compromises...PJ :)
 
Well, I recently saw LD vs. VHS on a projector and a screen size of 1,5m width and both were inacceptable to me. I could hardly, only just tell a difference between the two and I must say, if the videotape had been of a better quality, they probably would have been equally pathetic.
Sound, yes. But I must say that ProLogic II or NEO:Cinema used on a retail VHS (e.g. I tested it on Star Wars I) comes pretty close to "older" DD recordings.

So, to be honest, LD to me was more hassle than quality improvement. A lot more.
 
I thought LD was more lines of resolution vs VHS, hence it probably depends on the quality of the source material. I may be wrong though.

Having recently tried a LD on my PJ, and realising how inferior it was to DVD, I do agree that it left a lot to be desired however. Still, I liked the look & feel of the discs... pity so many of them are suffering from rot now...PJ :)
 
Of course the resolution is better, but (although not actually the res in use), if you jump from 320x240 to 480x360, the quality still remains extremly poor although you more than double the resolution.
That's why HD will be as succesfull in the long run as the DVD was (at least among projector users). The resolution improvement is severe and really noticable. Not just a tiny step but actually a huge jump.
 
damenace said:
Well, I recently saw LD vs. VHS on a projector and a screen size of 1,5m width and both were inacceptable to me. I could hardly, only just tell a difference between the two and I must say, if the videotape had been of a better quality, they probably would have been equally pathetic.
Sound, yes. But I must say that ProLogic II or NEO:Cinema used on a retail VHS (e.g. I tested it on Star Wars I) comes pretty close to "older" DD recordings.

So, to be honest, LD to me was more hassle than quality improvement. A lot more.

Wow, you must have had a REALLY bad demo of LD if you thought the ProLogicII could be compared to the 'older' DD LD's :eek:

Oh, and on topic...out of the four different DVD players we have at the moment, the Pioneer 575 is the only one that I can see no discernable layer change on any disc!
 
MacReady said:
Wow, you must have had a REALLY bad demo of LD if you thought the ProLogicII could be compared to the 'older' DD LD's :eek:

I second that... VHS to LD was a pretty significant improvement both in sound & picture quality.
 
It certainly was.
 
Well, as someone who never owned LD but has compared LD to VHS, I can safely say, that on a big screen (projector), they are both simply useless. The improvement is marginal.
And the sound is of course better, but if you listen to a DVD with DD5.1 and then watch a well mastered movie like Star Wars I on VHS with NEO:Cinema or ProLogic II, then the difference is not quite as big as one would expect. The LDs I have heard so far were all a bit "dull". A bit of a lack in the upper frequencies.

So, no, I don't think LD was a good format and was definitly not worth the hassle that came with it.

As to layer changes, I find it hard to really say which DVDP is good and which is poor as usually there is a certain spread for standard factory models. Plus, the real fault it usually to be found at the studios that master and manufacture the DVDs.
Can you actually still buy the Pio 575? Haven't seen them for a long time.
 
damenace said:
Well, as someone who never owned LD but has compared LD to VHS, I can safely say, that on a big screen (projector), they are both simply useless. The improvement is marginal.
And the sound is of course better, but if you listen to a DVD with DD5.1 and then watch a well mastered movie like Star Wars I on VHS with NEO:Cinema or ProLogic II, then the difference is not quite as big as one would expect. The LDs I have heard so far were all a bit "dull". A bit of a lack in the upper frequencies.

So, no, I don't think LD was a good format and was definitly not worth the hassle that came with it.

As to layer changes, I find it hard to really say which DVDP is good and which is poor as usually there is a certain spread for standard factory models. Plus, the real fault it usually to be found at the studios that master and manufacture the DVDs.
Can you actually still buy the Pio 575? Haven't seen them for a long time.

Well I use a big screen (8ft) and, even though I would agree that the picture is not great, I would not go as far as saying it is 'useless'. I I would definitly disagree about the sound being dull. I cannot name one LD that I own with an AC3 or DTS soundtrack that has yet been bettered by it's DVD version in the sound department !!!

And I would hardly say they were a hassle :confused: Ok you had some movies over multiple discs and you had a side change (not that big a problem on players that played both sides) but overall I found them to be great at the time and a big improvement on watching VHS.
 
damenace said:
Can you actually still buy the Pio 575? Haven't seen them for a long time.

Yes sure can from this place HERE
Dunno how long they will be available though ? what with all the good things being said about them on the forums :D (include me as one of the fans too).

TTFN,
Graham.
 
Got my 575 Monday from Richer Sounds. They said they've got loads of them.

The layer change is as quick as a chapter change, very very quick.

Great player, so far!

:)
 
Just to clarify, my Pioneer 575 does not show the layer change AT ALL.

This is not down to myself being insensitive to this as I notice a slight pause on the layer change with my Panasonic and slightly longer again with my Sony player.
 
Pug72 said:
Just to clarify, my Pioneer 575 does not show the layer change AT ALL.

This is not down to myself being insensitive to this as I notice a slight pause on the layer change with my Panasonic and slightly longer again with my Sony player.

On the few discs I've tried, it does seem to be that way and is very impressive, however it does it.

I think it's down to the speed of the drive rather than a buffer. What do you think?

A quote from the layer change review of I,Robot says the Pioneer DV-676A is seamless as well. >

"On my new DV-676A, which embarked on its maiden voyage with I, Robot, there was no visible layer change at all."

:thumbsup:
 
Had my Denon DVD2200 for just over a year now.Have NEVER seen a layer change and don't really expect to,due to it's highly effective memory buffer.
 

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