Most Disturbing Videos Ever.

Jenn

Novice Member
Nick_UK said:
Since AML has not figured out for himself why TV companies do not and will not show the nasty videos that he's trying to encourage us to watch, I will tell him why it doesn't and will not happen.
With all due respect I think it is difficult to have a sensible discussion with you as you keep taking things out of context, misinterpreting things and being a little unpleasant to the original poster simply because you don't agree with him.
I don't think he "encouraged" you to watch the video, he simply said he watched it and it was disturbing and then the discussion escaladed into some argument where he's been called all sorts of things from peadophile to inhumane trigerring answers from him that you misinterpreted more and getting worse and worse.

I understand why YOU wouldn't want to see the videos, and why you wouldn't want your family to see them but don't start "insulting" people who may disagree with you.

I do think that if people knew the real horror of war (and I mean see people suffering, dying or dead) maybe there wouldn't have been so much support in the US and the UK for the Iraq war (or any war to be honest) because they would have started to understand what war means. And don't tell me they know, plenty of war veterans are terrified by the idea of war and THEY know what it is.
In this case they only started to worry when the soldiers started coming back in coffins and now they want them all to come back even though it would mean Iraq would be a complete mess.
I didn't support the war (before you start it doesn't mean I supported Saddam) but I certainly don't want the soldiers to come back now that we've "created" some mess and leave them to it.

I do respect your opinion though, please just don't be "insulting" or unpleasant to people you don't agree with. You can get your message across without it.
 

PoochJD

Well-known Member
Hi,

I've been absent the last few days, hence I missed this thread. Some interesting points (and some silly ones too), but I want to throw in my opinion, and see what the rest of you think, as well as clear-up some points. Apologies, but this is a really, really long post!

1) Razor - "Faces Of Death" (and most of the content of its sequels and b*st*rd off-spring, like "Traces Of Death") is faked! I know this, because I have seen the full, uncensored version of the first in the series, on US DVD. The footage mainly consists of very badly faked accidents, newsreel footage, and one or two scenes of war footage! I should also let it be known that all the UK DVD versions, are heavily cut to remove anything even remotely illegal and thus "obscene or indecent". Even the infamous scene of "monkey brains" being eaten, is faked! :lesson: Oh yes, and the whole series is crap, anyway! :D

2) Nick_UK has an interesting point, about human beings becoming de-sensitised to violent material. It's true that what is acceptable/tolerable today, is completely different to say 10 or 20 years ago. I don't know why this is, but it's probably largely because we - as human beings - have become immune to the immeasurable amount of "bad" things that go on around us, each day, to the point, that to get our attention, we need to be shocked into submission. A bomb going off in some foreign country, is no longer enough to get us to pay attention. It's almost blase. Ditto, with x number of people dying in a war or a hurricane, or a car accident. It no longer registers with us, as being so heinous and utterly awful. Does that say more about us, as human beings, or more about the media and journalism?

3) The bloke in Scotland who downloaded and then showed a female colleague the disturbing image of a man being beheaded, was indeed sent to prison. The story, can be seen on the BBC website here and here!! Please don't worry, though, as there's no adult content to worry about. The reason he was given a prison sentence, was because he "Breached the peace", which basically means that he did something that was liable to upset and cause offence to a member of the public. The actual content of the video-clip he had wasn't illegal, but he was stupid to show it to other people. It would be the same if a parent bought a XXX adult DVD, and then let their 6-year old son and a few of his friends watch it! Owning the material wasn't the problem, but showing it to someone who was completely unaware of what they were going to see was!

4) Klaus - you asked why the bosses of Five weren't jailed or prosecuted for airing images of someone being stabbed to death on late-night TV. (A Program I actually recommended in my October Monthly TV update, I might add!) The reason being, is that the material was "contextualised", rather than being shown for entertainment purposes. Sometimes it is necessary to show, read or describe material of a disturbing and uncomfortable nature, to try to understand why such action took place in the first place, and to hopefully stop similar actions taking place in the future. If the same material had been shown on something like "Gory Video Laugh-In" for TV audiences to be entertained by, then OFCOM would punish Five. However, news and documentaries are legally allowed to show disturbing footage, if it's for a legitimate reason. If it can be morally justified, then it's okay to air it!

5) AML - With all due respect, you are wrong to say: "Just feel the media should be impartial and show ALL news regardless. I shouildnt have to down load such videos. We may think we know what these terrorists are doing, but we never actually see it and therefore we are turning a blind eye to it." Impartiality does NOT mean that the media should show ALL news, irrespective of taste or decency. As I said in (4) above, there needs to be a context. We British are still a relatively conservative breed of people. Showing beheadings on the evening news would need to be so utterly important to a particular story, that there was no other way that the story could be told. I doubt that any media person could really justify showing someone being beheaded on national TV, and get away with it. Just because the news don't show certain images, doesn't mean they are ignoring it. Likewise, just because they DO show certain shocking scenes, doesn't mean they are revelling in it! As for you downloading such material, that's your personal choice, but don't go all high-and-mighty on the rest of us, just because this was the only way you could see such material! Some people might say you were a bloodthirsty individual! :lesson:

6) Jenn - you said: "People need to see things to realise the importance of them." I vehemently disagree! Just because I don't see something shocking, doesn't mean I ignore it. But then again, we are all immune to a lot of news stories. Do any of us really know what a war actually involves? Do any of us really take notice of what happens when a stabbing, murder, robbery or other similar "everyday" crime happens, somewhere close to where we live? The answer, is probably a big "no"! :eek: Unless a story directly affects us, it's failry natural for a human being to not seem to care about it. But the thing is, if we did care about every incident that happened, no one would ever leave their homes. We'd never do anything at all! The world is a horrible, violent and nasty place, but we have to cope the best ways we can. And, that often means ignoring or blocking out the worst and most horrendous parts of world events. This is natural for us! But it doesn't mean we don't care! If, for example, people knew what the death penalty - as an example - really involved, the vast majority of us, would NOT vote for it! We'd decry it as being inhumane; an abomination of the state over the individual! Yet, as soon as we here a news story about a child being murdered, or a rapist being set free, it's all "Oh bring back the death penalty! Lock 'em up and throw away the key! Hanging's too good for 'em!" The reason we do this, is because we as human beings don't like to accept the fact that there are some people who are really, horrifically vile in their personalities. They are sick, and depraved, and act out vile fantasies! So we automatically presume that by getting rid of them, we get rid of the problem. Alas, that isn't how society works. It's the underlying causes - the things we can't see or don't know about - that is the problem. Until we understand why people do some of the horrific things they do, we won't ever be able to stop the problems in our world!

7) Lastly, I am one of those people who loves gory, horror films: the nastier, the more exploitative, the better! :eek: Now, that's going to make me sound really sick and depraved, and possibly psychotic. The difference for me - and lots of those people like me - who love horror films and video nasties, is that we make a clear distinction between fiction and reality! I love horror movies, but if I saw someone walking down the high street with a real gun, I'd be the first person to run a mile, and call the police! I don't actively search for real-life atrocities, because I know they are real, and therefore the violence was inflicted on a real, genuine human being, and was not a fake, special effect created by the use of clever make-up techniques! Also, just because I love gory horror films, it doesn't mean I apply their ethos' to what I do or don't do, in real life. In horror films, women are often shown as weak, or to be abused and mistreated. I'm probably one of the most PC-guys a woman would ever meet, and I've been told that, by women! I treat them, as I would like to be treated myself - as a human being, who needs and wants respect, equality, warmth, tenderness and to be given the freedom to agree-to-disagree on lots of things.

Anyway, I'd better end this message, or else I'm going to end-up droning on and on! I hope that some of what I've said has been thought-provoking, enjoyable, even informative. Whether you agree with what I say, or think I'm a complete git for saying what I have, is irrelevant! But then this is about discussing a subject that will provoke people with completely separate opinions, who all think that they are right, and everyone else is wrong.

Sometimes, things are nothing more that what they appear to be. Peace, respect and lots of fluffy warm, thoughts to you all! :)


Pooch
 

Steve N

Distinguished Member
PoochJD said:
What an excellent post.
Congratulations to Pooch for taking the time to write such a thoughtful, well composed response.
I happen to agree with every point made, but even if I didn't I would still have to give credit for the clear, unemotional and lucid way Pooch has expressed his opinions :thumbsup:
 

PoochJD

Well-known Member
Hi,

Thanks Steve. :)

If anyone wants a really intelligent and thought-provoking read about the history of death, cinema, and the media, please could I point you all to the following book. Oh, it's for adults only, because it contains some very disturbing and graphic pictures in it.

Killing For Culture: An Illustrated History of Death Film from Mondo to Snuff
by David Kerekes and David Slater
Paperback - 300 pages
Published by Creation Books
ISBN Number: 1-871-5-9220-8

Amazon UK book link here!


Pooch
 

Nick_UK

Banned
Jenn said:
With all due respect I think it is difficult to have a sensible discussion with you as you keep taking things out of context, misinterpreting things and being a little unpleasant to the original poster simply because you don't agree with him.
I don't think he "encouraged" you to watch the video, he simply said he watched it and it was disturbing and then the discussion escaladed into some argument where he's been called all sorts of things from peadophile to inhumane trigerring answers from him that you misinterpreted more and getting worse and worse.
I'm sorry, but you are accusing me of some things that I did not do. I did not mention paedophilia at all until AML suggested that we should judge for ourselves whether it's offensive or not.

If AML wasn't encouraging others to view the video, why did he find it necessary to post the URL of where the videos could be found ? (This was swiftly dealt with by a moderator, and the URL's were removed). I'm rather confused because one moment AML says that he was disgusted by what he saw, and the next he's urging us to go through the same degrading experience. I am rather offended myself by the assertion that I am incapable of understanding the futility of war or terrorism unless I witness these crude murders. I am old enough to know that without stooping to the level of those who post this filth on the internet. I realise that I overstepped the mark with my comments to AML, but I was (and still am) outraged by his assertions that watching this garbage will be good for me in some odd way.
 

Jenn

Novice Member
Nick_UK said:
I'm sorry, but you are accusing me of some things that I did not do. I did not mention paedophilia at all until AML suggested that we should judge for ourselves whether it's offensive or not.

If AML wasn't encouraging others to view the video, why did he find it necessary to post the URL of where the videos could be found ? (This was swiftly dealt with by a moderator, and the URL's were removed). I'm rather confused because one moment AML says that he was disgusted by what he saw, and the next he's urging us to go through the same degrading experience. I am rather offended myself by the assertion that I am incapable of understanding the futility of war or terrorism unless I witness these crude murders. I am old enough to know that without stooping to the level of those who post this filth on the internet. I realise that I overstepped the mark with my comments to AML, but I was (and still am) outraged by his assertions that watching this garbage will be good for me in some odd way.
I'm sorry I did not know that a link to the videos was posted; that was not the right thing to do, I agree, as some people could have been shocked.

One shouldn't be forced or tricked into watching these videos. But I don't think it is unhumane to watch them for some reason. What is inhumane is to actually enjoy it.
 

AML

Well-known Member
Sorry, but thats a lie. I didnt post any links because its something I downloaded from a bit torrent site (i wasnt planing on posting links anyway).
Maybe what the mod was reffering to was that he didnt want me to post any links. Something I couldnt really do anyway.
(you can ask garret)

I never stated that watching these types of videos would be "good for you" simply that by watching them you might get a better understanding of what these people are capable of.

Its fine that you dont agree with me Nick, but theres no need for the abuse. I just wanted to start this thread to make it into a discussion and maybe get more insight into the matter.
 

Adrenochrome

Well-known Member
AML said:
I never stated that watching these types of videos would be "good for you" simply that by watching them you might get a better understanding of what these people are capable of.
I Don't think we need to view this kind of thing to know "what these people are capable of" :nono:
 

mrtbag

Novice Member
Nick_UK said:
If AML wasn't encouraging others to view the video, why did he find it necessary to post the URL of where the videos could be found ? (This was swiftly dealt with by a moderator, and the URL's were removed).
I'm not for watching this sort of thing.

I had decided not to post in this thread until now. I've been reading this thread from when it started and I would just like to confirm that AML has not and did not at any point post links to the videos. Garrett simply reminded people that links would not be welcome
 

AML

Well-known Member
Adrenochrome said:
I Don't think we need to view this kind of thing to know "what these people are capable of" :nono:
Well, the reason why I feel this way is because untill now, I never actually knew for sure that these behadings took place.
What if those people had actually been released or imprisoned by the terrorists?
They might just be telling us that they killed those people to make us hate them.

Proof of something is necesary before action can be take right?
If all we did was watch the media, then we would never know for sure what had happened to those people. We only have the medias word on what happened, and as we know, the media has been known to lie.

What if they just wanted us to beleive that those people had been beheaded, in order for us to "hate" those terrorists and support our troops going in to iraq.
What if those people were actually safe and sound, and our going in was totaly uncalled for?

You see what Im getting at here?

The media is manipulated by politics, and in turn we are manipulated by the media.
 

Adrenochrome

Well-known Member
AML said:
Well, the reason why I feel this way is because untill now, I never actually knew for sure that these behadings took place.
What if those people had actually been released or imprisoned by the terrorists?
They might just be telling us that they killed those people to make us hate them.
Are you serious :rotfl:
 

BadAss

Banned
I sometimes laugh at the hypocrisy of the human race.

I put it to everyone, when you first heard that the Twin Towers had been destroyed on 9/11 how many of you rushed to put the news on knowing that hundreds of people had been killed? I bet everyone of us has seen that footage, the plane collide, the suicide jumpers, the building collapse, but does it make us all sick individuals for being curious?

Be realistic, every one is curious, morbid it may be, sick no. Paedophilia is a different kettle of fish. Peadophiles watch child porn to get sexual gratification where as people like AML seek truth out of human curiosity.

The evolution of Civilization is equal to moral sterilization. Those who eat meat, hide the fact they are indirectly killing innocent animals for food. Tell a person to shoot a cow in the head with an electric bolt before tucking into a sunday lunch and most couldn't, yet they'll conveniently forget and seem quite happy for some one else to do the dirty work for them.

Why do we need news papers with photographs of Soldiers on fire while still alive? Actually why do we need pictures of naked women on page 3 with there lils out? We all know women have breasts.

Near the end of Apocalypse Now, we see heads on sticks, dead bodies laying around rotting yet it all seems a bit surreal. When bang you see a real ox getting sliced in two with a samurai sword and suddenly you feel the full horror of human nature.

Sometimes we need to see human nature at its worse to sober us up to the fact that life is cruel, its not all picking pre packaged food of the shelves at Tescos.
 

The Dude

Distinguished Member
and then some of us just use our imagination.
 

BadAss

Banned
Then you would be happy for News Papers to stop using photographs and rely on the written word of journalists?
 

The Dude

Distinguished Member
The kind of photos you mention in your last post?

Quite probably, they're only there to sensationalise the story at the end of the day. A simple dumbing down of the media process really...

I'd certainly trust the written word more than a photo anyway, generally.
Imagery is never objective, you only ever see the picture the photographer wanted you to see, and then we assume that to be the 'truth' on the matter?

EDIT: I'd trust my ability more to find the truth in a story, if written words were all that was in front of me. Our sense of visual perception is so ruthlessly abused by the media, that photos and photo-journalism are the last things we should put our trust in.
 

Nick_UK

Banned
AML said:
Well, the reason why I feel this way is because untill now, I never actually knew for sure that these behadings took place.
What if those people had actually been released or imprisoned by the terrorists?
You didn't know that these beheadings were real before you watched them, and you still don't know now. With digital cameras and the sohisticated software that's available, you can fake anything.

If you watch this stuff, and are taken in by it (whether it's real or not), then you are playing into the hands of evil men.
 

AML

Well-known Member
I understand your point, but conspiracy theories can be endless.

I think its more plausible that these videos are real, and that these things really did happen.
Theres no proof to point out otherwise.

Besides, I doubt these terrorists have a studio with the necessary technology to edit these videos like you say.

"Badass" made some good points too Nick.
You say that you "already know" certain things and that you dont need to physically see them to know that they are true.
If everyone felt that way then why do we buy newspapers with naked women in them if we already know what a naked woman looks like?

Why DID we tune in to see the events of 9/11 if we already knew what those scenes would turn out to be like?
Why didnt we simply turn off our TV's once we knew what was going on?

Its part of human nature to be curious and thats undeniable.

People are always going to seek out the truth any way they can. These days with the internet being what it is, we have access to anything, anywhere and anytime.

Im sure im not the only one who downloaded those videos either nick since it was something I found on a bit torrent site.
 

Nick_UK

Banned
AML said:
I understand your point, but conspiracy theories can be endless.

I think its more plausible that these videos are real, and that these things really did happen.
Theres no proof to point out otherwise.

Besides, I doubt these terrorists have a studio with the necessary technology to edit these videos like you say.

"Badass" made some good points too Nick.
You say that you "already know" certain things and that you dont need to physically see them to know that they are true.
If everyone felt that way then why do we buy newspapers with naked women in them if we already know what a naked woman looks like?

Why DID we tune in to see the events of 9/11 if we already knew what those scenes would turn out to be like?
Why didnt we simply turn off our TV's once we knew what was going on?

Its part of human nature to be curious and thats undeniable.

People are always going to seek out the truth any way they can. These days with the internet being what it is, we have access to anything, anywhere and anytime.

Im sure im not the only one who downloaded those videos either nick since it was something I found on a bit torrent site.
AML, at the risk of you accusing me of being offensive (which I'm trying hard not to be), I think your theories are extremely naive. Since Al-Quaeda have millions of pounds at their disposal, why do you doubt that these terrorists don't have access to the latest technology ? They may hide out in caves, but they are certainly not cave men ! In any case, it doesn't really matter whether the movies are real or not, the real intent of them is to suck fellow Islamic militants into the "cause", and it really doesn't matter if they are real or not, if they have that effect.

"why do we buy newspapers with naked women in them if we already know what a naked woman looks like?"

Self-gratification? Possibly the same reason why some people are attracted to movies showing violent scenes?

If you think that everything you read or see on the internet is the truth, then you need to take a reality check (literally), because anyone can post anything on the internet. It is the ideal medium for people to post propaganda, because there is no censorship or control. I could quite easily start a website alleging that there are little green men in space ships invading Los Angeles, populate it with poor-quality mpeg files which I'd hashed together with parts made from old plastic model kits, and pass it off as real. But it wouldn't make it true or real, but I'm sure I would get a few gullible people believing it.
 

andypandy

Active Member
most disturbing film I have recently seen and I just can't think of one worse that I have ever seen (or if there has been - this one has overshadowed them all) is irreversible - I felt absoluteley sick !
 

PoochJD

Well-known Member
Hi,

AndyPandy - "Irreversible" is pretty disturbign. But I think the all-time most disturbing still has to be either "Cannibal Holocaust" or "Guinea Pig: Flowers Of Flesh ANd Blood" (of which I have both on DVD)! :eek:

Both of those make "Irreversible" look like "Play School"! :eek: :eek:


Pooch
 

Ayub

Distinguished Member
Why are you glad the British Army is in Afghanistan and Iraq?
 

Peridot

Well-known Member
PoochJD said:
I hope that some of what I've said has been thought-provoking, enjoyable, even informative.
All of those and more mate :thumbsup:.

Not quite sunk in with everyone though. As interesting at this thread has been I do think it has run its course.
 

Steve.EX

Active Member
I have read much of this with interest. I feel that there is clear intelligence across the diversity of opinions.
I also feel that these acts of physical mutilation and horror offer those who are fascinated or impelled to look a sense of realisation or finality to their curiosity. An equally if not more disturbing side to the human condition (imho) is the act of mental abuse, be it large-scale religious brain-washing, child neglect or plain and simple spiteful mind-games from a person closest to you. The effects are far-reaching, often hugely damaging or even permanent, and have no physical entity as such that can quantified or understood.
Just my most humble opinion of course.
 

andypandy

Active Member
Steve X, I agree with what you have said, but with regards to the "disturbing side to the human condition" , well only applies if you are disturbed & weak. And I don't think the majority of the viewers are.
I'm not likely to go and repeat most things I see on TV or for them to give me weirdo fantasies !!
 

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