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More advice time!!! Sell my yammy A1??

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Smurfin, Jul 30, 2003.

  1. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    As many of you will know, I've gone through a mad phase of upgrading, starting last week with 3 speakers for my front soundstage, new speaker stands, a new power amp and new hi-fi rack, oh and a BFD this weekend:D

    Anyway, I was discussing using my A1 for processor duties with someone who previously owned one, and they mentioned a huge improvement in clarity/tonality when they switched to a Denon 3802 (the yammys as we all know, have a very warm sound)

    So the question is, bearing in mind I could get £400 on ebay for my A1, is it worth selling it and buying a 2nd hand Denon like the 3802? (or the AVC10se?) Obviously the new amp will only be used for processing.

    Any thoughts? How much can 3802s be picked up for now?

    Oh I should post my equipment really (or how it will be in a few weeks):

    Yamaha DSP A1 (processing)
    Rotel RMB 1075 THX power amp
    M&K MPS1510's x 3 (fronts+centre)
    Mission 77DS bipoles (rears)
    Paradigm Servo 15 subwoofer
    BFD.

    Cheers
    Matt
     
  2. upallnight

    upallnight
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    i have a black denon 3801 for sale if you are interested.basically same specs as 3802
     
  3. Anodyne

    Anodyne
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    I used my Denon 3802 as a pre-amp with a Rotel 985mk2 for a while but found the pre-outs on the Denon very noisy. In my case using it this way introduced an irritating low level hum into the system, obviously it might have been an isolated problem, but it would be worth trying a 3802 in your system before committing yourself.

    Will
     
  4. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Thanks Will, has anyone else had this problem?
     
  5. nathan_silly

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    Save up and get a high quality AV processor- there's a DC2 going on the classifieds, or a MC1, Tag AV32R, Meridian, Bryston...

    AV amps (as pta..) mentioned are quite bad on processing & pre-amp stages.. why fork out for decent speakers & poweramp and limited yourself to a AV amp?
     
  6. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Because I can't afford a decent processor right now:(

    Spent 2k in a matter of days, so any changes I now make necessitate minimal outlay of cost.

    The DC-2 you mention is selling for £800 (is that a good price?), however even with selling my A1 it still leaves me £400 short.

    How good is the DC-2 anyway? How does it compare to something like the MC-1?
     
  7. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    actually my mistake, its selling for £900
     
  8. nathan_silly

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    Well I borrowed a DC-2 V4 for a week before ordering the MC-1.. there's not a huge difference (sound wise) between the two, but it is there.

    The MC-1 has better DAC's all-round, and looks nicer, with refined Logic 7 modes. I also believe the MC-1 has better connectivity (more digital inputs) and better 12V connector blocks.

    I guess if 7.1 Pro-Logic, Dolby Digital & DTS processing (with Logic 7 enhancements) is good enough for you- then I would say it's still worth considering. There is no way of adding multichannel SACD/DVD-Audio (no 7.1 input)

    MC-1 lacks the "Hi-Fi" sound on my Tag DAC20, 8000S & 8000SX system though... just be aware of that.
     
  9. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Forgive my ignorance, but why can't it decode 5.1 DVD-Audio discs? Or have I read that wrong?

    Whats a good price for a DC2? I'm guessing that 6 months down the line, Tags will be dirt cheap (hmm maybe 12, but it won't be far off), and 2nd hand processor prices in general will go down. not sure if £900 for a DC2 constitutes a good buy or not.

    Anyway, you're tempting me too much:nono:
     
  10. nathan_silly

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    DC/MC range has no 7.1 input.. so you can't connect up the DVD-Audio/SACD multi-channel inputs to it.


    You can connect the stereo line out from a DVD-Audio player- but it'll just playback Stereo SACD/DVD-Audio (although you could still add Logic 7 Music mode) And since the DC/MC analogue stereo inputs are converted to digital (to be processed) then I guess that's a performance loss. However the MC-1 has three Coaxial digital inputs which bypass all bass management, and go straight to the pre-amp section (so they'll be full-range stereo) Read up on the MC-1 manual for more info.

    £900 is about right for a V4 DC-2... although I think someone bought (is it still available?) a MC-1 for £1200 on these forums recently..that's a VERY good price!! I bought mine from CSE for £1500 (1 year warranty)

    If you do buy a DC-2 or MC-1, make sure it has Version 4 software. This adds THX Surround EX, and sorts out the "click" when pausing & skipping a chapter.

    Don't confuse Logic 7 Music/Film modes with Yamaha's DSP modes. I've owned a Yamaha amp in the past, all effect were crap (echo echo echo reverb) etc.. I would compare a CD in Logic 7 Music mode to a similar level as the sound improvement you get from watching a DVD in stereo- to (Logic 7 is slightly better) than a DVD in Pro-Logic mode.

    Don't buy a DC-1, unless you can find one dirt cheap (ie £500-£600)

    I've read some comments that people think the Logic 7 mode is equal to Pro-Logic II, and better than some of the newer DTS modes (Neo/Music)

    Don't forget there are various Logic 7 modes- Logic 7 MUSIC (ideal for CD's), Logic 7 FILM (expands 5.1 DD and DTS mix to full 7.1 with stereo rears) and of course THX enhancements (sub peak limit- worth it for lesser subs and messed up sound mixes)

    Enought Lexicon sales talk! :p I'll let a Tag/Bryston owner add some comments!
     
  11. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Nathan I hate you.

    I was originally talking about almost a straight swap from my Yammy A1 to a Denon.

    LOL;)
     
  12. rags

    rags
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    Go on you know he makes sense :D
     
  13. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Noooooo. I'm broke as it is!

    And of course, I'd then need to buy another 2 rears speakers for logic 7:rolleyes:
     
  14. nathan_silly

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    ....and a 2 channel poweramp, speaker cable and a set of phono leads! :)
     
  15. marck

    marck
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    or you could sell the Rotel and buy my nice Copland 5 channel amp!
     
  16. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Ok sod that for a game of soldiers!:rolleyes:

    So back to my original question.......:D
     
  17. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Marck, I don't even have the Rotel yet, collecting it on Saturday, costing me £760;)
     
  18. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Nathan, I'm completely lost (I really am NOT technical).

    I've recently bought a few DVD-Audio discs (Metallica the black album anyone? - blows the roof off!!:)), I simply put them in the DVD player tray, press play and hey presto - 5.1 sound.

    Are you saying it doesn't work like that with the Mc-1 or DC-2? I'm thoroughly confused, as you can tell:p
     
  19. buns

    buns
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    As far as i know processors dont decode dvd-audio..... well thats what i thought! Maybe im wrong and you are getting some downmix remix or something, i really dont know. But suffice that the bryston i am awaiting doesnt do dvd-audio.

    To answer the question...... i think you should wait. Dont buy anything else just yet. You are faling into a trap many of us do! Get your new stuff and use the yammy as a processor. You will get a huge improvement without doubt. Then when the novelty has settled in, then have a look about. Time is on your side..... in 6 months there is a good chance there will be cheap tags floating about 2nd hand, at that point you can sell up and have the spare cash to add to get that good processor.

    Basically i think you will notice and enjoy your upgrades more if you make good upgrades a couple or 3 times, instead of really pushing yourself and buying it all at one. Certainly that is my feeling and the route i have followed.

    Ad
     
  20. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Good advice Buns, but will I listen? Maybe.....:suicide: ;)
     
  21. buns

    buns
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    Course you will! You wouldnt want a young whippersnapper like myself having course to come back and say 'I told you so!!' :p :D

    Ad
     
  22. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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  23. Warpaint

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    Smurfin
    Most (if not all) DVD audio discs have two separate soundtacks. Dolby digital 5.1 sound, which will transfer through a coax or optical digital cable, and the high resolution DVD Audio sound which will not.
    Only the Pioneer DVD757Ai and the Denon DVDA1SE have digital outputs which can send true DVD Audio digitally to the amp, and they are not compatible with each other.
     
  24. General Skanky

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    Personally, I think you've been given the wrong advice.

    The 3802 is a good unit in itself. However, I wouldn't bother selling the A1 to get it for proc. duties. I think it'd be a waste of time and money.

    I had an A2 and it was excellent at the bread and butter stuff; DD, DTS and PL, not II.

    I would save up to buy a 'proper' separate proc.!!!!!

    I went from a A2 to a HK 5500 to my current Primare kit.

    Condsidering the availability of proc. like Lexicon, Tag and others at approx. the £1500 mark, there lies your answer.

    From my own experiences, going from integrated to a pre/power set up gave rewarding upgrade in sound quality. Floundering around the 3802 vrs the A1 is just not worth it.

    Use the A1 for now. Save, save, save! Then buy go buy something good.

    Good luck.
     
  25. chips

    chips
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  26. General Skanky

    General Skanky
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    Thank God for that. :)
     
  27. JUS

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    Smurfin,

    Do you want us to write a letter to that budgeting bloke on Channel 4. He can come round and tell you want you spend all your money on :rotfl: :rotfl:

    Congratulations. Sounds like you're putting together a great system.

    Regrads,

    Jus
     
  28. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

    Got a looong thread to post bit later tonight:D Some general thoughts so far (and about what a mad couple of weeks it's been!:D
     
  29. ShinObiWAN

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    I'm a little confused at the mintute as to the differences between the DC1 and the DC2.

    I paid £900 for my DC1 which seems to way over the odds that some are suggesting (£500-700).

    My DC1 has had every add on that Lexicon has ever released for it. Its had the v4 software installed with THX surround EX/ES and the revised Logic 7 modes, the new backlit remote and the 20bit dacs swapped out for the newer 24bit ones. As well as the DTS and Dolby Digital boards added. So in all its got the following surround modes:

    -Dolby Pro-Logic (No Pro-Logic II)
    -THX Ultra
    -Dolby Digital
    -DTS
    -THX Surround EX
    -THX Surround ES
    -Updated Logic 7 modes (Around 7 in all)

    Now as far as I can tell the DC2 has all of the above but just a few more inputs? I know the core of the DC2 is almost identical to the DC1 after reading up on the US forums. But I'm still wondering if there's anything else that the DC2 offers that I don't already have with my fully loaded DC1.

    Personally I think its £900 well spent from the performance I've had so far but I hate to feel that I've been 'over-charged' if you like.
     
  30. nathan_silly

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    -Dolby Pro-Logic (No Pro-Logic II)
    Correct
    -THX Ultra
    Correct
    -Dolby Digital
    Correct
    -DTS
    Correct
    -THX Surround EX
    Correct
    -THX Surround ES
    Nope.
    -Updated Logic 7 modes (Around 7 in all)
    Correct, latest firmware removes dts click, bzzt-bzzt sound on Music Logic via PCM, removes the click on volume adjustment, and enhanced Logic 7 modes.

    The DC-2 has more inputs. For more info go to SMR foums, as that's the Lexicon forum.

    The MC-1 expands on the DC-2; more inputs, better DAC's, more DSP modes, better processing, further enhanced Logic 7, higher signal to noise etc
     

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