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Monitor woes...

snowyweston

Standard Member
I recently swapped rooms with my flatmate - and now, in my smaller room, I'm faced with the need to revaluate my love affair with my 21" CRT. :mad:

Since I've no space I'm prepared to give over to a desk, I've been thinking of streamlining my computer setup; so I've tucked the base unit away out of sight under my bed - and I'm thinking of mounting a monitor on an arm along the long side of my bed - so that I can pull the monitor out and rotate/tilt it towards me depending on my sitting/lounging/lying aspect in my bed, like so:

monitorelev.jpg


monitorplan-1.jpg


But......

Despite loving my work Dell 2408WFP, it's a little out of my price range and I was thinking I'd get the lower priced TN-panelled Dell E248WFP instead.... but then I went and did some web-reading last night, and got myself all flustered over TN, IPS, PVA panels etc - and now, well now I'm confused.

I don't necessarily need a 24" - but the bonus of having 1920x1200 native does appeal to me since I'm loving working with Revit & AutoCAD at that resolution.... and then of course, there is the support of 1:1 mapping for 1080 content, even though I'm still unsure as to how keen/soon I'll be taking all of this HD malark on board.

I'm not a graphics/photograhy professional - I don't need 100+% of NTSC gamuts or the colour calibratiing abilities of mega-high-end-Eizo monitors with regards to aRGB and such (techie gumpf more the product of recollected reading than consumption last night) but I do like to look at nice screens.... I don't play games all that much - but I do watch movies a fair bit in my room, and do notice ghosting on poor monitors..... which is kinda pointing me in the way of TN panelled screens - but the thing is; even with a monitor arm supporting tilt, rotate and such - I can't bear to move away from my CRT to a monitior (for new money) that'll have off-axis flares & discoloration like so many cheap LCD's I've been privvy to.....

I'm going to take a DVD into work tomorrow to see if the S-PVA panel of my 2408WFP are as bad with response times as I've read - or if it's just the product of perfectionists nit picking - but until then, I thought I'd put it to you all - what do you reckon my options are?

Quit worrying and go with the Dell E248WFP?
Drop down to a higher-quality 22" since 1:1 of HD content isn't a priority?
Save up for a better all-round monitor?


Any advice would be most appreciated. ;)



Incidentally/additionally I've a 7800GTX - so maxed out 1920x1200 resolutions aren't an issue (IIRC) and DVI wouldbe the connection of choice - it'd need to have a VESA panel (but don't they all) and I'm not fussed about superfluous extras like speakers, card readers or cameras.... oh and it has to be a matte screen.
 

EndlessWaves

Distinguished Member
Aren't the 5ms S-PVA panels supposed to be the very best for reactivity at the moment?

There is the Yuraku/Digimate P-MVA which is significantly cheaper than the 2408WFP but if you're going to be moving it around on an arm then the poor build quality could quickly become an issue.

Your diagrams aren't terribly clear, some measurements like viewing distance and axes (is the second one a top or side view?) would clarify them.

One thing you may not have taken into consideration yet: Weight. Most of the arms seem to top out in the weight range of 24" monitors so the arm you get may restrict your choice of monitors. Generally the cheaper monitors are lighter because they use lighter materials (plastic instead of metal) and have fewer components inside.
 

snowyweston

Standard Member
Aren't the 5ms S-PVA panels supposed to be the very best for reactivity at the moment?
Good question - shame my brain's so awash with LCD acronyms after even more reading today (flu on a day off - boooo! :thumbsdow ) that I've no firm idea; I've been reading quite a mixed bag... most regular-use-users are reporting back stupendous reviews, but then digging deeper into the techie analysts like here:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/content/dell_2408wfp.htm#input
and I start to get concerned :confused: especially since I don't see any lag on my CRT.

There is the Yuraku/Digimate P-MVA which is significantly cheaper than the 2408WFP but if you're going to be moving it around on an arm then the poor build quality could quickly become an issue.
Funnily enough TFT central's "TFT selector" returned the v.same monitor as a result for my needs.... so I then began to read to 109+ page thread on OCUK where all starts promising, until the mixed reception of the units steered me clear; incorrect panels being sold, correct panels being returned - some of the poster-posted-images of the unit show it up really badly.

One thing you may not have taken into consideration yet: Weight. Most of the arms seem to top out in the weight range of 24" monitors so the arm you get may restrict your choice of monitors.
Good point - and my rented house's plastering work is akin to weetabix! Since the 2408WFP weighs in just shy of 9.6kg I think I'll be sure to buy something that's aimed at 15kg loads.

Your diagrams aren't terribly clear, some measurements like viewing distance and axes (is the second one a top or side view?) would clarify them.
I know - I knocked them up pretty sharpish :blush:

The first is elevational (of bed length) - the monitor(s) being in their folded-back position (to the right of my chunky-framed window)

The second is plan.... actually, it'd probably be quicker to knock something up again than dictate my way through the previous efforts....
 

snowyweston

Standard Member
Okay, I thought sketchup would be a bit better at illustrating my intent - I've modelled a 24" screen based loosley on the Dell here.

(I'll resize the pictures if needs be)

Plan Section

plan1.jpg


Sectional Elevation

elev1.jpg



Perspective 1

pers1.jpg



Perspective 2

pers2.jpg


I'm positioning the monitor at 600mm centre above the bed height - (which is me sat just short of upright) - and by guestimates - that'd put the screen some 800-900mm from my face horizontally with an arm that could extend to a 400mm radius.
 

EndlessWaves

Distinguished Member
Good question - shame my brain's so awash with LCD acronyms after even more reading today (flu on a day off - boooo! :thumbsdow ) that I've no firm idea; I've been reading quite a mixed bag... most regular-use-users are reporting back stupendous reviews, but then digging deeper into the techie analysts like here:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/content/dell_2408wfp.htm#input
and I start to get concerned :confused: especially since I don't see any lag on my CRT.

I know the feeling, I'm looking for a CRT replacement myself! :) For me the size and desktop space over my 19" CRT are going to outweight the few remaining disadvantages (apart from maybe input lag as I'm a keen gamer).

Funnily enough TFT central's "TFT selector" returned the v.same monitor as a result for my needs.... so I then began to read to 109+ page thread on OCUK where all starts promising, until the mixed reception of the units steered me clear; incorrect panels being sold, correct panels being returned - some of the poster-posted-images of the unit show it up really badly.

The Yuraku is the same monitor but it has HDCP and supposedly there haven't been any TN versions of it around: http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Disp...escreen+LCD+Monitor+DVI+HDCP+?productId=30640

Good point - and my rented house's plastering work is akin to weetabix! Since the 2408WFP weighs in just shy of 9.6kg I think I'll be sure to buy something that's aimed at 15kg loads.

Well, the weight is usually with the stand with adds a few kilos, but something like the NEC 2470WNX is 8.3kg without it's stand.

I'm positioning the monitor at 600mm centre above the bed height - (which is me sat just short of upright) - and by guestimates - that'd put the screen some 800-900mm from my face horizontally with an arm that could extend to a 400mm radius.

80-90cm is a fair distance, you might find the pixel pitch on a 24" a bit small (i.e. text and anything else sized in pixels is small). 1920x1200 does go all the way up to 28" so you could consider something like the viewsonic VX2835wm, although it is both TN and £400.
 

snowyweston

Standard Member
Okay so I took a DVD in to watch (and downloaded a 1080p trailer at the same time) today at work - I learnt we've actually 2407WFP not the 2408WFP ...so I was all prepared to not be blown away and accept I'd have to be imagining the improvements of the new model..... all I can say is, my fears were totally unfounded and a testament to taking purely-analystic testing method results available on the net with a pinch of salt. I was wholly impressed - no ghost-trails, nothing of complaint. Infact, I'd go so far as to say, since the screens flat&matte - the image was better than my CRT (which being glass & slightly curved).

So I'm pretty much confirmed. And on the back of my reports, 2 of my housemates are thinking of treating themselves aswell..... think I might pay a bit more attention to the bargain wangling on the 2408WFP thread.:cool:

Well, the weight is usually with the stand with adds a few kilos, but something like the NEC 2470WNX is 8.3kg without it's stand.
Well after reading a few of the plasterboard-mounting threads over in one of the other forum sections I'd say I was well and truly prepared for the investment/work involved - I've got some good lads in my local hardware shop who'll sort me out with some hardcore masonry expandy bolts (think shield anchors - I just don't trust my rented house's plasterwork) for the job - and I'll still over spec. the arm for 15kg - even given the base is the main weight of these units.


80-90cm is a fair distance, you might find the pixel pitch on a 24" a bit small (i.e. text and anything else sized in pixels is small)
I remembered this bit today - so tested a few documents and websites - and found I could still happily read away at 120cm.... so no worries there.
 

Ronski

Well-known Member
One thing you should bare in mind when reading forums, people very rarely go on a forum and post comments if they don't have problems, so you end up with the minority of people with problems complaining on forums, whilst the majority who don't have problems sit back and enjoy their new monitor etc.
 

snowyweston

Standard Member
Perhaps one thing that's bothering me - and at least one of the two friend's who I've been telling about my findings has raised, is:

So for £370-£450ish quid we'd be buying a v.nice LCD 24" 1920x1200 monitor that can display 1080p HD.... BUT for £350 one could buy a 26" HD-Ready TV like this RANDOM SONY BRAVIA.

Since the three of us use our computers for computing first and foremost - (and only in the lounge are we still thinking of resurrecting our old, or buying a new, projector) would it be a complete fallacy to think LCD TV's could compare favourably price-wise against something like a 2408?

I mean - I've now a really small room - so I don't need anything larger (I couldn't fit it anyway) but one friend's in the front room of a victorian terrace - and he's dubious that he'd be better off getting a larger TV for the same money... or do you still have spend large sums of money to get a decent computer-image (ie. text) on a LCD TV? :confused:
 

Ronski

Well-known Member
Monitors are a lot more flexible and computer friendly than TV's, you need to find a TV that does 1:1 pixel mapping via your chosen connection method. Not all TV report Edid information correctly causing problems. Unless you go top end you'll get 1366 x768 resolution, which may be too low for normal computer use, TV's don't go into standby when you turn the computer off either.

To get decent text/computer image you need 1:1 pixel mapping on a TV, they seem to scale a lot worse than monitors when not running at their native resolution.
 

snowyweston

Standard Member
Monitors are a lot more flexible and computer friendly than TV's, you need to find a TV that does 1:1 pixel mapping via your chosen connection method. Not all TV report Edid information correctly causing problems. Unless you go top end you'll get 1366 x768 resolution, which may be too low for normal computer use, TV's don't go into standby when you turn the computer off either.

To get decent text/computer image you need 1:1 pixel mapping on a TV, they seem to scale a lot worse than monitors when not running at their native resolution.
Much as I thought - thanks, I think that'd be enough to put them off the idea.....

But new developments.... I learnt last night that another friend can get pretty much all things samsung at trade price through his work; so now I'm thinking I should do some reading into their 2408-rival products.... :rolleyes:

At least I've till the end of the month before we all make the final call.
 

EndlessWaves

Distinguished Member
Although samsung has a huge range of cheap products their only rival to the 2408WFP is the 245T.

Well, and the XL24, but as that's £1200 then even trade prices may not make it affordable.
 

DJACID

Active Member
cool, very nice sketchup,
sorry thank help on the subject am probaly more confused then anyone here...:rolleyes:
 

snowyweston

Standard Member
Although samsung has a huge range of cheap products their only rival to the 2408WFP is the 245T.

Well, and the XL24, but as that's £1200 then even trade prices may not make it affordable.
I threw him some model numbers, incl. the 245T - but the return prices weren't all that spectacular so I'm not going to try and get my head round the seemingly infinite number of variations that samsung seem to have out there....
cool, very nice sketchup,
Cheers dude - I'm not fond of it (sketchup) myself - but then that might be because the day after I decided to learn it, my work put me to task with mastering Revit. :cool:
 

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