Monitor Audio silver 50 paired with silver c350

panman40

Distinguished Member
I just run Audyssey on my setup and I now get the C350 at 80hz crossover and -11dB level, I dont think @panman40 levels are that far out.
I'm sure the previous c350 I had briefly came out at 60hz.
 

sm1ggsy

Active Member
Do you get same results running auddessy through the AVR,
 
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panman40

Distinguished Member

two2midnight

Distinguished Member
I'm sure the previous c350 I had briefly came out at 60hz.
I've just done an Audyssey run and again the C350 came out at 60hz using the app.
REW shows it has a low SPL at 60hz (-15dB down) and I would have thought 80hz crossover (+4dB) would be more suiting the speaker.

Audyssey On: Red | Audyssey OFF: Blue (setup as large so no xover)

c350.jpg
 
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Conrad

Moderator
What does the response look like with the subs? 60 looks a bit low but it might work really well with the sub response and that might be what Audyssey is seeing?
 

AndreNewman

Active Member
I think I read the C280-IDC is the equivalent match for the silver range and the C380–IDC is matched to the gold range.
That would make some sense, I can't find any explanation from MA as to the difference between C200 and C300 the spec sheet looks the same, the drivers are described exactly the same.

But there is a price difference!

The thing I don't get, is the gold range has ribbon tweeters and only the platinum ceiling speaker has a ribbon tweeter. How can a dome tweeter ever be "matched" to a ribbon?

I have a while to find out, I have to install a new bathroom before I can pull up the carpets in the room above the cinema room and get in to install ceiling speakers.
 

AndreNewman

Active Member
I wouldn't be fixated on having an 80Hz crossover, to really get a proper response through the crossover which will be 40Hz to 160Hz then you need truly full range speakers that are no more than -3dB at half the crossover frequency, not the bs -6dB specs that most manufacturers quote.

I was chasing 80Hz or lower for years, I get a good crossover at 70Hz or >=100Hz with my speakers in my room. I always thought, I have big speakers so I should use 80Hz or lower. At 70Hz I have good punchy response between 40-160Hz but some harshness at higher volumes. At 100 or 120Hz crossover the punch is better but timing was off.

Now I have DLBC the timing is fixed and 100Hz crossover is best despite big tower speakers and C350 center. The subs are much much better up to 100Hz than the towers or C350.

What made me reconsider my attitude to >80Hz crossovers was visiting someone who had huge LCR speakers with dual 12" woofers and he used 100Hz crossover. I figured if he found that 80Hz was too low for his huge speakers I was fooling myself thinking my "tiny" Silver 8's and C350 would be better at 80Hz than 100Hz.
 

panman40

Distinguished Member
Just thought I’d post the graphs I got from Audyssey. Are most C350’s looking like tha at 80hz or so ?. Pics are L R and Centre and lastly the previous Centre Kef Q600c.

C39882ED-5BAF-419B-82C7-AE5ACCDB55AB.png
0EE04B40-54BD-4F4D-B3BE-20FBC96D0126.png
C60F7EF6-0CA9-4462-A93A-7EEE8A534DDF.png



Previous Kef Q600C
8C322A39-9905-4AD4-8957-6EB61C767B7A.png
 

AndreNewman

Active Member
This is the response I get with my C350, uncorrected.

C-13noDirac.png
 

panman40

Distinguished Member

two2midnight

Distinguished Member
What about corrected ? . Just to compare.
He's using Dirac. My REW graph at post #104 show uncorrected and Audyssey corrected
Just thought I’d post the graphs I got from Audyssey. Are most C350’s looking like tha at 80hz or so ?. Pics are L R and Centre and lastly the previous Centre Kef Q600c.
My C350. Basically much the same as yours allowing for room variations. I've got a peak at 70hz and you've got a null.

c350-compare.jpg
 
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anden2000

Novice Member
Here's another, my C350, for reference. The curves seem to together show some kind of overall characteristics, and at the same time probably also effects of room properties.

Three C350.PNG
 

panman40

Distinguished Member
Thanks both for the above. They do seem to be similar albeit my dip is at 80hz, it’s odd I know all speakers are different but I really thought I’d see an improvement over my kefs but at the moment that’s not the case at all. 🤔🙁. i Should know by now if it ain’t broke dont try and fix it🤣.
 

panman40

Distinguished Member
Something I used to get running ypao on yamaha avrs in the past was it woukd set speakers to Large. I don’t think that’s ever happened using Audyssey on the marantz.

also this Rew thing, presumably it must be another box needing plugging in to be able to fix eq on speakers or is it something different?.
 

two2midnight

Distinguished Member
Something I used to get running ypao on yamaha avrs in the past was it woukd set speakers to Large. I don’t think that’s ever happened using Audyssey on the marantz.

also this Rew thing, presumably it must be another box needing plugging in to be able to fix eq on speakers or is it something different?.
REW is a measuring info tool which can be used with external boxes like MiniDSP to fix eq. Needs laptop/PC to run the free software. Although a umik-1 mic is recommended I've seen stuff that it can be used with the Denon/Marantz mics too. The MultEq Editor 'after' graphs are just a prediction, you needs the likes of REW to see what Audyssey actually manages to achieve.

I was reading something over on avsforums from Audyssey development that REW designed filters will at some time in the future be able to be used with the PC based MultEQ-X editor. "we know some users are using REW to measure and create filters, and we will soon introduce an import tool to enable bringing those filters into MultEQ-X".
 

panman40

Distinguished Member
REW is a measuring info tool which can be used with external boxes like MiniDSP to fix eq. Needs laptop/PC to run the free software. Although a umik-1 mic is recommended I've seen stuff that it can be used with the Denon/Marantz mics too. The MultEq Editor 'after' graphs are just a prediction, you needs the likes of REW to see what Audyssey actually manages to achieve.

I was reading something over on avsforums from Audyssey development that REW designed filters will at some time in the future be able to be used with the PC based MultEQ-X editor. "we know some users are using REW to measure and create filters, and we will soon introduce an import tool to enable bringing those filters into MultEQ-X".
Ahh right, the laptop wouldn’t be a problem but I’ve no more room nor spare sockets for even one more box of any description!.

i notice you can manually adjust things somewhat in the app but I wouldn’t have a clue what I’d be doing. Also what’s midrange compensation off do on the app ?, just wondered if it’s worth trying.
 

panman40

Distinguished Member
I wonder if I have the c350 angled up to much ?, I'm using the same rubber feet I had on my Kef though.
IMG_20220212_140141.jpg
 

two2midnight

Distinguished Member
Ahh right, the laptop wouldn’t be a problem but I’ve no more room nor spare sockets for even one more box of any description!.

i notice you can manually adjust things somewhat in the app but I wouldn’t have a clue what I’d be doing. Also what’s midrange compensation off do on the app ?, just wondered if it’s worth trying.
Gets rid of the dip around 2KHz seen in the graph.

I wonder if I have the c350 angled up to much ?, I'm using the same rubber feet I had on my Kef though.
About the same as mine (reminds me I need to increase my angle a bit). As long as it's firing at your ear height at your MLP it's OK.

Better that, than your knees getting an earful of the dialogue, unless, that is, you have extremely hairy legs and use them like a spider does for hearing....:eek:
 

panman40

Distinguished Member
Gets rid of the dip around 2KHz seen in the graph.


About the same as mine (reminds me I need to increase my angle a bit). As long as it's firing at your ear height at your MLP it's OK.

Better that, than your knees getting an earful of the dialogue, unless, that is, you have extremely hairy legs and use them like a spider does for hearing....:eek:
That’d be great if I had the hearing of a spider😂. in fact I do annoyingly have good hearing yet I’m going to be forced to use subtitles if I can’t improve things.
something I noticed is that 2ch audio from general tv upmixed by the receiver is quite clear. Last night I started doing daft things like doing away with the centre ch in speaker configuration and thought it sounded pretty good 🤔😂, obviously no use to my wife who sits way off angle.
 

sm1ggsy

Active Member
I wonder if I have the c350 angled up to much ?, I'm using the same rubber feet I had on my Kef though. View attachment 1652657
I use a laser pen to get correct angle, with REW you just need the umik-1 , and laptop , there’s adjustment that can be made in your AVR for crossovers and sub delays , and you get to see what’s what
 

panman40

Distinguished Member

AndreNewman

Active Member
What about corrected ? . Just to compare.
C-16-Dirac.png

And with subs at a more normal sweep level, I was chasing out some distortion with the >85dB sweeps.
C75Corrected.png
 

panman40

Distinguished Member
View attachment 1653021
And with subs at a more normal sweep level, I was chasing out some distortion with the >85dB sweeps.
View attachment 1653022

im not up on audio graphs but that looks pretty good!. I spent hours last night messing about with settings in my marantz. I used to really like DEQ On but sadly it does seem to muddy the centre ch with these MA’s, I’ve gone into Audyssey levels and tweaked a few levels using an spl at the mlp but upped centre ch by 2.5db and sub by 5db. Then I remembered that this could be wrong and I should be using external test tones from my Blu ray player so that the filters are in play. Of course when doing that you can’t get to the main Audessy levels and have to use the speaker levels under Options instead which is a pain as they are input dependent.
 

AndreNewman

Active Member
im not up on audio graphs but that looks pretty good!.
I'm happy with how things are right now.

I spent hours last night messing about with settings in my marantz. I used to really like DEQ On but sadly it does seem to muddy the centre ch with these MA’s, I’ve gone into Audyssey levels and tweaked a few levels using an spl at the mlp but upped centre ch by 2.5db and sub by 5db.
I usually run center 2dB hot but it depends on the movie.

Pretty much every AVR and processor (except Trinnov) I have tested has the problem, that they can adjust the level going to the center speaker but not the level of the center channel. This means that if you boost "center" it's boosted above the crossover but not below, if you have a high crossover it can make some voices sound thin.

I'm not into boosting subs, I don't like the step going through the crossover, sounds horrible to me. For the odd movie where bass is lacking or everything sounds harsh, I much prefer to use tone controls to adjust the slope of the response instead of turning channels up and down. Much more gradual boost as the frequency drops, sounds better I think.

1 or 2 dB down in treble and 2 or 4 or sometimes 5 up in bass tone controls sounds much better to me than turning up the subs and turning the volume down.

The processor I just got has some adjustable loudness control but I haven't started testing how that works and finding out if it's beneficial yet.

Then I remembered that this could be wrong and I should be using external test tones from my Blu ray player so that the filters are in play. Of course when doing that you can’t get to the main Audessy levels and have to use the speaker levels under Options instead which is a pain as they are input dependent.
Sorry, I've never had any Denon or Marantz equipment, so that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. How can speaker levels be input dependent, that sounds a bit mad?
 

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