Monitor Audio RS6 RSLCR Advice needed on Denon AVR-1910

squidgy9

Standard Member
Hi All!

I've just got a new set of these speakers - the RS6 AV pack minus the Sub.

I've run audyssey, set the RS6's to large and everything sounds pretty ace except for one thing.

The S hiss is quite annoying. For example words such as "fantastic" "sides" and "these" seems way over pronounced - too sharp.

I've tried different EQ settings and turning off Audyssey but no joy.
I know these speakers are quite bright but pairing with a Denon amp is usually recommended. I have them single wired - connected to the LF terminal and there are gold bar connectors going from the LF to HF terminal as well. I have noticed when playing music on Itunes on my HTPC the audio quality is fantastic, this problem I get when watching anything on Sky, HD or otherwise.

Can anyone suggest anything to help? Anything. Just throw some ideas out for me to try please i'm a bit lost. :lease: Thanks for your time!

My Setup:
Denon AVR-1910
Sky+HD (samsung box) HDMI+Optical
HTPC HDMI + Optical
PS3 Fat - HDMI
(and just got delivered! a KDL-55EX503) which i'll setup when I get home from work YAY!
 

dean999

Active Member
hi squidgy

the problem stems from your source, i.e sky. as you have stated when you use your itunes/htpc the hiss disappears.

try using other sources e.g cd player and see if the has a problem.

i have monitor audio platinum speakers and have never found them to be bright.
 

squidgy9

Standard Member
hi squidgy

the problem stems from your source, i.e sky. as you have stated when you use your itunes/htpc the hiss disappears.

try using other sources e.g cd player and see if the has a problem.

i have monitor audio platinum speakers and have never found them to be bright.

Thanks for taking the time to respond. :smashin: I'll have another listen to them tonight. I have changed nothing else in the setup except the speakers however. I'll have a go with other sources and confirm what i've said.

No point speculating until I confirm that I suppose.
 

squidgy9

Standard Member
ok tried from another source, my HTPC, specifically, iTunes. sorry i've not updated I had to work away the hiss is still there, although admittedly, not quite as pronounced.

On the Amp for Sky it shows Dolby Digital.
On the Amp for HTPC it shows PLII M

is the centre channel faulty? I'd love to get this sorted because otherwise I'm very happy. Much improved over my old speakers.

Thanks
 

squidgy9

Standard Member
ok tried from another source, my HTPC, specifically, iTunes. sorry i've not updated I had to work away the hiss is still there, although admittedly, not quite as pronounced.

On the Amp for Sky it shows Dolby Digital.
On the Amp for HTPC it shows PLII M

is the centre channel faulty? I'd love to get this sorted because otherwise I'm very happy. Much improved over my old speakers.

Thanks

I've just condridicted myself there! :oops: to let me clarify.

Classical music (which I was refering to in my 1st post) sounds fantastic. It's dialog, I was listening to Dance Department podcast (highly recommened to you dance lovers) and vocals bring out this hiss..
 

lok1

Active Member
I've never noticed this problem you are having, have you ran them in for a while? (I have the MA disc to run them in if you want to borrow it?)

I will listen more closely to try and help with you're problem.

I do have my fronts bi wired though.

The gold bars are for when you are bi wiring iirc and you must remove them or you could damage you're speakers.

Keep them connected otherwise.
 
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squidgy9

Standard Member
I've never noticed this problem you are having, have you ran them in for a while? (I have the MA disc to run them in if you want to borrow it?)

I will listen more closely to try and help with you're problem.

I do have my fronts bi wired though.

The gold bars are for when you are bi wiring iirc and you must remove them or you could damage you're speakers.

Keep them connected otherwise.

Thanks for the offer on the cd Leoncope, that's most generous, I may take you up on that. But first....

I went to Richer Sounds today to talk to them about it. They were suprised I was having this problem too. They suggested it could be my wiring and or the speaker. Seeing as i've tried another speaker on the centre channel and that also "hisses" they dismissed that inital theory. They think its probable the amp. They recommend I take it back for repair (??) and they'll loan me another to try. I'll see how I get on with their replacement, keep you posted. Btw - I told them I wasn't bi-wiring, that said it would make no difference. Infact they say Denon advise NOT to bi-wire on the 1910, unknown why. They said I should NOT use silver plated speaker cable too?? I'm not.

Cheers :smashin:
 
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Rich9600

Active Member
The gold bars are for when you are bi wiring iirc and you must remove them or you could damage you're speakers.

Keep them connected otherwise.

Just to clarify

The gold bars are for single wiring and must be removed for a bi-wire or bi-amp configuration.

squidgy9

The MA speakers use a gold dome tweeter which can sound a little sharp with some kit to some ears, but this shouldn't lead to the issues suggested.

Is the problem only seen in surround modes or is it also present in stereo? If so is it to the same extent. It could be a timing error in surround, check the distances are about right.

My RS6's took about 100 hours before they were getting towards run in. Now over a year and thousands of hours on they are fantastic!

However, their enhanced top end from the gold dome tweeter can become slightly wearing, with certain music on CD, after exceptionally extended listening.

They are revealing speakers and can pull out detail that you haven't previously noticed if you have been using less revealing speakers.

I'm presently watching the formula 1 and many of the foreign drivers do seem to be very slightly over pronouncing their 's' sounds... I've never noticed this before... Just shows what you can hear when it's suggested.

This isn't something I'm worried about and I would simply suggest that you may have fallen foul of the affliction of over listening... :devil: I know I have before... :suicide:

A possible trade off of a revealing speaker.

On a side note I was advised when using a single wire configuration to go to one LF and one HF binding post on each speaker. Claimed gains in coherence.
 

Prize78

Well-known Member
I have MA rs5's running off a denon 1610 amp, and although the speakers are regarded as 'bright' i have never found it an issue. Maybe as has already been suggested, they need a few more hours of play before they sound as they should?
 

squidgy9

Standard Member
Thanks for the responses guys..
Rich9600
It is also present in stereo, I tried listening to "The Pretender" by the Foo Fighters... :( not good.
Anyhoo, i'll have a go at checking the distances as you suggested. I agree, hiss aside, I feel like i'm listening to all my favourite music all over again, amazing what you can hear, music I'm familar with I thought I knew, hearing all new subtle sounds I've not heard before. I'm really hoping I can get this sorted. Because if I didn't have this issue i'd be very pleased overall.

I'll try wiring one cable to the HF and one to the LF, which do you suggest, red or black?

I know what you mean about "over listening" It is worse than it should be i'm sure of it. I'm not going over -10 volumewise so not pushing them too hard. Must be close or near about 100 hours listening time by now I'd have thought. You've given me some ideas for things to try which i'll do after work tomorrow, so thanks for that.


Prize78

I'm very open to that possibility - thats my get out of jail card. I'm suspicious though that although they are new, they are that bad.

Just thought, could audyssey EQ have an effect on this???
 

Rich9600

Active Member
If it's present in both surround and stereo then the distances are very unlikely to have any effect. If you use the direct mode for stereo it cuts out all the processing circuitry anyway.

-10 sounds quite loud to me. My I don't think I've had my AV-R past -25! Normally -35 to -30. And, my stereo amp not past 9 o'clock! different electronics but I'd guess the volumes on the AV-R's would be similar...

How loud are you pushing your speakers? They need to be kept at moderate volume while running in. I'm concerned you may be asking too much of new speakers. Pushing them before they are ran in could damage them.

I'll have a listen to The Pretender tomorrow, unfair to neighbours at this time of night, and get back to you. However, I don't recall any issues.

What is your source for this?

Just another thought, covers on or off? My covers are on and this may be enough to absorb some of the sharpness you are seeing.

On the red-black note, I can't remember the way I had it but it shouldn't matter too much. If you have spare speaker wire of a decent quality try replacing the jumpers with this. Not specific to your problem but generally helpful.

Another thought could be interference from power cables. Re-routing speaker cables away from these could help.

As I say, on my system I can hear a hint of what you suggest but I think this may be a case of the power of suggestion, it hasn't bothered me previously.
 

squidgy9

Standard Member
Hi,

When I refered to -10, it is indeed very loud and definately not my normal listening level. It's hard for you to help me if I give you duff information isn't it!? Slapped myself on the back of the hand for that sorry. I don't feel as if i'm pushing them too much, certainly when watching Sky then its around the -25 mark.

Source is iTunes via Optical cable on my HTPC for the music. SkyHD via optical for TV. Covers are on. I'm suprised you said removing the gold jumpers and using speaker wire instead, but i'll give it a go tomorrow when I get back from work. I've just hooked up one cable to the HF on the centre and LR channel, it's too late to play at any meaningful sound level to see if this has made a difference but will report back tomorrow.

I hadn't actually thought about power. It is a bit of a mess back there i'm ashamed to say and I had planned on tidying up (at some point - but I never get round to those "fun jobs" for months) All equipment is plugged into one powerstrip that is a mains conditioner. Interferance is definately a possibility. There must be close to 1kw running around back there - doh!! not gaining expectation but i'll be off to sort out some cable ties tomorrow I can tell ya.

I feel like my AV is like the England team at the moment. Decent on paper - woeful in practice. Maybe thats a bit harsh on my AV, it's not that bad :) I'll get there in the end, patience and perserverence. Apologies if you are noticing this hiss a little more Rich!
 

Rich9600

Active Member
I've just listened to The Pretender at a very decent volume. Good way to wake up off nights...

Anyway, I listened to it with a newly critical ear and I must say I'm sill very happy. I would rate the cymbals as a little forward, but that is about it. For comparison I listened to it back to back on my second system.

Arcam Alpha + CD > Onkyo SR503 AV-R > Celestion F2 speakers

The result was a more muddied sound, and it reminded my why I love these MA speakers so. I could still hear most things but it wasn't all there.

One more test was to listen to it through my DVD player and let my AV-R decode the digital signal. As close to our set up as I can get.

Cambridge Audio DVD 89 > Marantz SR5003 (as pre amp and DAC) > Marantz PM7003 (as power amp) > MA RS6's

Vol -30, distortion sets in around -22! This is more detailed than my second system but not a patch on my normal listening set up. See sig. Using the DVD player as a source and the DAC in my AV-R everything seems poorly organised and I would rate the overall sound as harsh in places!

I haven't tried driving my RS6's directly with my AV-R, I got them after my stereo amp and cant be bothered with the cable ratching! However, I remember that when I put it in the way between the AV-R and my old Celestion F2's I was amazed at the extra bass depth and overall clarity.

I honestly think that you may just be suffering from not being used to such revealing speakers. You've set me thinking and I must admit that I sometimes buy music on vinyl specifically to get its warmer sound, for example I bought the recent Joanna Newsome album on vinyl specifically as I thought her vocals may wear when listened to off cd...

Occasionally when I revisit something particularly fast and heavy I don't have quite the same enjoyment factor that I would in the car listening to it in a dirty way of iPhone > bluetooth > bluetooth audio gateway > stock car radio. The extra fidelity can almost be a curse sometimes. But, overall I'm very happy!

Musically a solution may be a separate DAC, if my test using the DAC in my AV-R was a good indicator. Even the 20+ year old DAC in the Arcam Alpha + is better with music than the one in my AV-R.

AV, the 's hiss' issue, I can't really investigate as it isn't overly imposing on my system, I have to listen for it to hear it. But, if it's greater on your system I can't think of anything further to suggest. Just more time really.
 

indus

Distinguished Member
Sqidgy are you saying the ssssssssss is only there with Sky, or with CD playaback as well?
 

squidgy9

Standard Member
Hello sorry for such a late reply/post. Starting a new job in the morning and this had to take a back burner for a bit.

I think you are right about getting used to the speakers Rich. I tired everything you suggested above, all my wires are nice and neat now! used wires between LF/HF and wired one to LF and HF etc nothing made any notible difference. I did however use the tone control settings to increase the bass and lower the treble slightly and it has made a slight difference. I've been listening out for this s "sharpness" on Sky as after setting the treble slightly lower it's...... ok. My G/F is a Classical music teacher and has excellent ears, she doesn't seem to notice it as much as me, more accurately, it doesn't bother her as much. This is the 1st set of quality speakers i've owned and I need to get used to the sound perhaps... Although it's still sharp for me, i've a setting now that is *just* reasonable. I just wonder, would taking the bass responsabilities from the L/R channels by adding a sub help? Just a thought...

I would like to soften the sharpness of the S hiss more, i'm trying to ignore it, but don't feel happy with the compromise. I still pickup on it more than i'd like. I enjoyed reading about your purchases of vinyl for the warmer sound though, I agree! Digital audio has come a long way but I still have a stack of vinyl at home and a turntable. If having a decent DAC is benifical I might save up and get a better AVR, I don't have the space or inclination for more boxes. The 2310 has a 2nd audio processor for example. Thanks for all your help.

Indus, it's on all inputs, can you suggest anything?
 

Rich9600

Active Member
Tone controls! I'd completely forgotten about them!:suicide: I've gone down the route of always using the tone control by-pass for so long now I'd forgotten they existed.

If your girlfriends musical ear can't detect your ssss then you may be suffering a tad of audiophileitus. It gets to us all at one time or another...

However

Upgrading to a different AV-R may be your ultimate solution. The RS range apparently need a lot of control and it is possible that your Denon 1910, though a very highly rated AV-R, may not be entirely matched to your RS series speakers in this respect. My Marantz SR5003 AV-R is of a similar price point and IMHO is more suited to the BR range and may struggle to directly drive my RS6's. The amp I have powering them is from two ranges up.

Adding a sub is unlikely to affect you high frequency response, the higher frequencies require very little power. All you'll be doing is getting your sub to do everything below your cross-over point, typically with full range speakers 60-80Hz.

I got a bit more bass when I bi-wired, but if you are using expensive cable it isn't really worth the cost. My cable was an ebay bargain and the gain really wasn't worth the extra £45 for the cable I used!

However, if you are running a 5.0 set up, your AV-R is capable of 7.1 or 5.1 with the front L&R's Bi-Amped. This may be worth a poke. The RS6's are 2.5 way speakers, top binding posts for tweeter and mid bass, bottom binding posts for bass driver.

This may free up some more power and allow greater control by reducing the demands on the individual channels of your AV-R...

Bi-Amping my old Celestion F2's with my SR5003 was better than bi-wiring and single wiring with it. Bi-wire was better than single wire. However, only small gains from each step.

For music an external DAC is only a very small box and can bring great gains for a non-audiophile source. Cambridge Audio DAC magic or Barestford get great reviews on here. I was considering a new PC and a DAC Magic myself.

Only two other possible thoughts are that something my be loose, or you may have a polarity miss match in your wiring.

I hope your new job is going well and you get to the bottom of you sssss.

Good luck!
 

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