Modern Car Theft

Discussion in 'Motoring' started by djcla, Nov 27, 2017.

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  1. djcla

    djcla
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  2. Dony

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    This has been touched on a couple of times now in General Chat.

    Are all keyless entry cars this vulnerable? Seems absolutely crazy by manufacturers given that it's so easy to work around.
    Also, does anyone know if there been any response from the manufacturers in terms of improving their systems?
     
  3. Astaroth

    Astaroth
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    Surprised there hasnt been an influx of containers to keep your keys in at home to block the signal to prevent this type of theft; similar to the wallets that block contactless to stop people brushing past you and taking your card details.

    This type of theft wouldnt work for us given when we have a car its parked 6 floors below and under a neighbouring building but does continue to show why insurers dont like those cars parked on driveways despite the obvious reduced chances of hit & runs
     
  4. IronGiant

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  5. imightbewrong

    imightbewrong
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    How long until these cars are uninsurable? I've said it many times but I really don't get this one - why is it so hard to make it work? Why doesn't the car stop when it gets far enough away from the key? Why doesn't everyone who has this system disable it right now?
     
  6. Bl4ckGryph0n

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    LOL The BBC is a bit late with that photo...I've seen it weeks ago...

    But like you I don't get why SOME manufacturers don't get this sorted. It really isn't hard and not all of them are vulnerable like this...
     
  7. PSM1

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    I believe the device they uses captures the code the key emits and keeps sending the code out so as far as the car is concerned the key is in the car so it does not stop when it goes out of range (although I could be wrong about that).
    Even cars without keyless entry are vulnerable using the diagnostics port where they can recode a key that they bring with them.
    Ultimately, if they want you car then they will find a way to take it no matter what security you have.
     
  8. Astaroth

    Astaroth
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    They wont become uninsurable but premiums may go up. My, first car, a mk1 ford fiesta could easily be opened with just a coat hanger - which was a good job given you could lock the car without the keys so they did get locked in it occasionally. Never an insurance problem.

    I guess it'd be a safety issue that the car doesnt go into "no key mode" whilst its driving otherwise what happens if your key's battery died as you're driving down the motorway at 70 mph and the steering lock engages?

    As to turning off? Certainly with some cars you cannot drive them without it. My old car wasnt keyless engine but the doors would set off the alarm if you only used the physical key and not the remote. The hire car I had over the weekend had no ignition to use a key in so cannot be turned off.
     
  9. Dony

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    Looks like you have to pay £495 to have the option of easy theft (comfort access) on some cars I'm currently looking at. I won't be ticking that box.
     
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  10. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    In some systems the key is only required to allow you to start the car after unlocking the doors, so they don't even need to capture the code, just amplify it enough to fool the car that the key is nearby.
     
  11. imightbewrong

    imightbewrong
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    This is what I don't get though - why is my cheap router or phone or whatever harder to crack/fool than a £50k car?

    The amount of security training I have to do at work is unreal, along with proving my systems are secure. Didn't someone say 'you know what, this doesn't work yet - let's go back to those simple but secure key fob button thingies until we've worked it out'.
     
  12. imightbewrong

    imightbewrong
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    The next step will be pub carparks - everyone is sitting in the pub - cars parked just outside. Drive up with the device - wave it around - bobs your uncle - someone's luxury motor has popped open and of you go before anyone notices.
     
  13. aVdub

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    Can't remember if I covered this on a course or read, but sure it was a Bosch system many are using and it is becoming out of date and easy to crack.
     
  14. imightbewrong

    imightbewrong
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    We live in a different age now - made to order thefts - cars straight to the boat and away. Some people have a very hard time getting their house insured due to high flood risk or subsidence risk - could see this going the same way.
     
  15. imightbewrong

    imightbewrong
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    It's truly baffling
     
  16. Astaroth

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    Government has recently set up Flood Re as a reinsurance pool to assist on the flood front so that issue should be reducing.

    The issue of subsidence is typically for those that have already had subsidence but then you are looking at very different numbers.... the average Home insurance premium is much lower than that of Motor. The average subsidence claim is also typically much higher than the average theft of car claim. So the ratios are much more difficult to make stack up.

    Now where you may presently have issues is that some Motor policies already state that there must be evidence of violence involved - either to the vehicle or the person but that doesnt just cause problems for those with these keyless cars and the use of relays but also for those who keep their car keys near the front door and are fished out using a hook or magnet etc. Similarly you get cases of deception (eg someone taking your acr for a test drive and speeding off as you go to get in the car with them)

    Lack of cover is a different beast to being unable to buy insurance, particularly for a compulsary insurance like Motor.
     
  17. imightbewrong

    imightbewrong
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    I'm really starting to sound like my mum now but the really frustrating thing is the system it 'replaced' was so simple - just having to physically have the key in your hand to open the car!!! We've moved towards all this complexity and risk and arms race to mean you don't need to press a button a few times a day?

    "Oh yes it's a lot more convenient, but just to be safe keep your keys in the (pub?) fridge and use one of those autolock things your grandad had."
     
  18. Astaroth

    Astaroth
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    The irony is that they are suggesting that you should start putting the autolock on the wheel again.

    Do you really want to go back to the good old days where you could easily unlock the car with a coathanger? Starting it without a key wasnt much harder. Each door had to be locked individually. Doors could be locked without keys so increases risk of locking the keys in - a near weekly experience for my mother.

    Enter central locking and you get electrical faults that can cause the doors to unlock. Immobilisors can fail and lock up your car.

    Personally, I'm all for keyless/remote access to the car. Central locking, alarms, immobilisors, GPS etc are all good things as far as I am concerned even if they come with some risks. Dont particularly see the attraction of the keyless ignition any advantage I can think of is just really minor
     
  19. Jezza99

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    The worst era was the 80s/90's Cars like the Sierra Cossie and Lotus Carlton became ridiculously expensive to insure, with owners having the grief of using multiple mechanical steering & gear lever locks, none of which prevented thieves, just slowed them down a bit.

    I hope we don't have a return to those days, although I'd rather if my car did get nicked they didn't break into the house for the keys. I have never used "comfort access" apart from on a temporary company car for a few weeks, never saw the point of it, I don't find it a hardship to press a button on the remote.
     
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  20. Bl4ckGryph0n

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    And they (can I say BMW?) have known this for many years...
     
  21. imightbewrong

    imightbewrong
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    Looks like it - and Merc - who else?

    It's the same as the premise of Battlestar Galactica - all the shiny new ships get hacked and destroy by the Cylons, while all the old school 'keys in the ignition' ships are unharmed as they are just too damned simple :laugh:
     
  22. nvingo

    nvingo
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    One answer could be for several different companies to supply incompatible modules for locking/immobiliser and the car manufacturers to randomly fit these to each car, only the manufacturer knows which device is fitted.
     
  23. Dony

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    How long before a thief can whisper through the letterbox 'Alexa, start the car'?
     
  24. blackrod

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    Happened to my brother a few weeks ago. Someone broke into the house and nicked a set of keys, turns out they were the works van parked down the road so they threw them in a garden and legged it.
    My brother installed CCTV and beefed up the security but they returned a couple of weeks later. You could see on the CCTV two blokes in balaclavas waving somthing around the windows and doors then one get some ladders and does the same on the upstairs windows. Next thing they are both in the car and speed off up the road. So quick and my brothers 4 month old M2 is probably in a shipping container somewhere.
     
  25. Bl4ckGryph0n

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    Haven't seen anything about recent Mercs on this to be honest....I guess I could try it :p

    fullsizeoutput_b6f.jpeg
     
  26. imightbewrong

    imightbewrong
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    Let us know how it goes.
     
  27. Bl4ckGryph0n

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    For the record, and any law enforcement agencies watching, if/when I do this I will do it on my own vehicle ;)
     
  28. imightbewrong

    imightbewrong
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    That's how it always starts...
     
  29. gibbsy

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    I was expecting keyless entry and start on my Golf GTD, standard on Mk7s only to be told that it was now an optional extra on Mk7.5s because of security risks and by ordering one you would be made aware of probable issues. Whether this was salesman's BS I know not.

    In 1970s I was working with a guy who had a Ford Mk II Cortina. He lost the keys and had to make do with a pen knife!
     
  30. stblob

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    If anyone steal my car I hope they crash and die.
     

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