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moderately priced projector for the x360

Discussion in 'Xbox Forums' started by Kong, Oct 18, 2005.

  1. Kong

    Kong
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    does anybody recommend a projector for the x360?

    i dont want 2 be spending in the couple thousands

    i think 1000-1500 is my max, and under 1000 would be great. i want the quality to be HD though. no point otherwise.

    can i watch TV through a projector?

    what kit would i need to watch TV, play DVDs and play x360 with a projector?
     
  2. Malone

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    This is one option. I have no personal experience with this model but best place for ideas is go to the LCD projector section on these forums and read as many posts as poss to get a better idea. I would suggest an amp to use as your hub ie plug all your souces through amp then use monitor out to go from amp to Pj.

    If an amp is out the question I would personally use the Xbox360 as the DVD player then use component to run direct to Pj and possibly run Sky via Svideo if poss to Pj. There are numerous alternatives connection wise some more costly with better reproduction of images and some cheaper etc. Research it as much as poss. Once you've sampled images on a big screen you wont look back :smashin:

    Matt
     
  3. Kong

    Kong
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    will it look as good as a high definition lcd screen? i was also looking at the sammy le26r41bdx.
     
  4. Waynej

    Waynej
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    Well officially, it'll be alot bigger on your wall, so the further away you are the better your picture will appear to be, as long as u'v got a massive room and ordepending what size u plan to have it on the wall etc, you should be ok.
     
  5. CAS FAN

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    I'd recommend the Sanyo Z3 if you wish to spend under £1000.

    The only thing that the Z4 has over it is it's contrast. Personally I find that if you use the right filters on the Z3 you can get an excellent picture with good contrast in low bulb mode.

    Also the Z3 is only around £800 (£400 cheaper than a Z4) and you also get a free bulb with the Z3 worth £300! I've had a Z3 for the last 3 months after upgrading from my old SD Epson PJ and I am extremely happy with it, especially when fed a HD image. Connectivity is also excellent on it with 2 component inputs, 1 HDMI input, 1 VGA input, S-Video and Composite. You also don't need that big a room, I get a 7ft wide image (around 100" diagonal) from around 3 metres back and from that distance I get no screen door effect.

    So if money is no object then the Z4 is a great choice, where as if you are on a budget then you'd be hard pressed to find a better 720p PJ than the Z3 for £800! Oh and remember that it comes with a free bulb as well!

    Ivojo sell it here .

    You can watch TV on a PJ but personally I wouldn't recommend it for general every day viewing. To start with you will use your bulb up quicker and the current bit rate of TV broadcasts is pretty poor. When you blow the image up to 100" it can look pretty bad on some channels due to the low bit rate. When HD TV comes out then TV should look great over a HD PJ. My only concern is that if you use the PJ for everything then it just becomes the norm and watching films and playing games on it loses it's impact. For gaming and film watching though I would personally always recommend a PJ over other displays. Even a 50" Plasma or a 45" LCD doesn't give you the wow factor of a PJ and you can end up paying around £4000 - £5000 for a decent HD screen that size.
     
  6. neil c

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    CAS FAN - Z3s are sold out just about everywhere. Ivojo have removed access to that Z3 page from the main site, so you must have an old link there. The free bulb offer has also ended.

    You'll need to find another sub £1000 projector to recommend, or tell people to look for a second hand Z3, as there's not much chance of them finding a new one at the deals that youre telling them about.
     
  7. Monty Burns

    Monty Burns
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    I don't know anything about the Z3 but, I can tell you I have recently been stung buying a projector.

    Although the BenQ6210 is a very good HiDef projector it is not HiDef Ready - yes there is a diference. I will not be able to use my BenQ to watch Sky HD or play original HDef DVD's as they incorporate something called HDCP. From what I gather, HDCP is in very basic terms like Macrovision, just for HiDef content.

    Whilst I can play games/DVD's/downloadedfilms in HiDef on my modded xbox and watch Sky Digital, I will not be able to use x360 for ANY original HiDef DVD movies. I am guessing but, I hope I will still be able to play X360 games!


    So, be warned as I wasn't. HiDef Compatible is VERY diferent to HiDef READY.

    Just check that which ever product you go for that it does have HDCP and is HiDef Ready.
     
  8. CAS FAN

    CAS FAN
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    Ah shame! Is the Panny AE700 still doing the rounds - i'll just go and see if there's a decent price on that.

    EDIT: Hmm seems that you can only buy the AE900 now. I guess there should be a good 2nd hand market for Z3's and AE700's now so it may be worth going down this route if you don't mind 2nd hand.

    EDIT 2: Actually if you click the link to the Z4 on their hotlist then that takes you to the Z3. Maybe they should remove this if it's no longer for sale.
     
  9. Malone

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    Without wanting to start a PJ thread 'Has Hasnt' are you sure thats correct. I thought HDCP was in the source not the PJ or LCD, all the monitor has to has is HDMI connection. IIRC (Which my 3 yr old Sony doesnt DOHH)

    Matt
     
  10. Colgate7110

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    It's a two way process unfortunately Matt, basically it's a secure channel between the source and display as far as I know to stop people poaching, say, a high-def upsampled signal from a DVD player or native HDTV signal and copying it onto a DVD-R and selling it as a top-quality recording. I've never really looked into the ins and outs whether it's actually encrypted data or it's just a handshake process that the display has to "tell" the source that it supports HDCP, but either way, you need it at both ends.

    That's what's slightly surprising about Sky's plan to support displays without HDCP-protected HDMI sockets. By giving people component sockets on the first wave of SkyHD, they're not protected at all against copying the source although how much of a problem that really is a different discussion!

    Cheers,

    Colin
     
  11. Monty Burns

    Monty Burns
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    TBH i'm not entirely sure but, it makes sense that the tv/projector etc needs it as well. Its aim is to stop you putting a recording device in the middle of the cable. If its just the broadcast device then there is nothing to stop you doing this.

    Also, my projector does not/is not HiDef Ready but it IS a HiDef capable device. Many people on another thread pointed out that im stuffed with HiDef originals ..... don't know if its 100% true but, they did point to a PC World link that seemed to support this also, so did the sky HD website. :(

    These people also said that a great many devices that have HDMI also have HDCP built into them as well, sadly, my projector is not one of them.
     
  12. Malone

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    I stand corrected :smashin: It does make a mockery of this future proof terminology then, ie HD Compatible.

    Matt
     
  13. CAS FAN

    CAS FAN
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    My Z3 is not HD ready as such, just HD Capable but maybe they will release firmware updates that make it HD Ready in the future? Either that or perhaps someone will be able to chip them. I guess if they make it so that I can't use originals on my PJ then the only route open would be to use pirate versions which I don't really want to do.
     
  14. Monty Burns

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    Yup. Totaly agree. And I was pretty much told I was an idiot because I said the same as you. I wonder how many other people have purchased plasma's n stuff in the past year or two and expect to plug in there new shiney HD dvd player ....

    Way to easy to confuse.
     
  15. Kopite4Ever

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    for your price range look at

    Sanyo Z3, Panny AE-700, Hitachi PJ-TX100. i was looking at these models alot before i made my purchase in late feb this year so i know what its like. best thing i can say is try to demo, as we can all talk about the greatness of each model but untill you see if yourself you just wont know. best place to start to to search this forum, the panny vs sanyo vs hitachi has been done so many times ive forgotten so there is plenty to read up on. if you can pick up a 2nd hand Sony HS-50 (6000: 1 quoted CR) then sorted * COUGH MEMBERS MARKET 2ND PAGE, TITLE CALLED "For sale: Sony HS50 only 100 hours" COUGH * ;)

    edit* well said by montyB its all very misleading if your not really in the know without sounding disrespectfull to anyone. this was top of my list when i was researching around as well thankfully ive gotten to be friendly with a fair few on the forum who are very knowledgable on the subject and by PM's etc i made my choice :) the HDCP can be misleading just do your homework and you will be fine
     
  16. CAS FAN

    CAS FAN
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    Exactly what I did but all 3 models have now deen superceeded by the Sanyo Z4, Hitachi PJ TX-200 & the Panny AE-900. The three mentioned are not HDCP compliant it seems and therefore (although HDTV capable) not HDTV ready.

    Surely if the machine is capable though it can be made compliant with a firmware fix? Does anyone know any more on this?
     
  17. Kopite4Ever

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    well im afriad im going to correct you as your wrong :) the hitachi TX100 is HDCP complient its one of the reasons i purchased it over the other 2. it even says on the back on the machine above the DVi-D connector "HDCP" and carries the HD logo so the hitachi is HD ready. anyone not beliving me go here http://www.hitachidigitalmedia.com/DMG/viewProduct_1.jsp?productid=365&drilldown=2&urlnumber=0
     
  18. CAS FAN

    CAS FAN
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  19. Kopite4Ever

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    no worries but i had the impression the Z3 and AE-700 were both HD ready in all sense's and carried the HD logo, or maybe im thinking of something else now :confused:
     
  20. CAS FAN

    CAS FAN
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    I don't know, i'm lost with all this now. As far as I was aware, if you could show 720p and had a digital connection such as DVI or HDMI then you would be OK. The Z3 has everything needed for HDTV and it seems like the HDCP is just software is it not?

    Can anyone clarify this?
     
  21. Kopite4Ever

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    as far as i was aware its (HDCP) like a digital handshake between display and source thats just basically used to protect the digital content. its an encrypted transmission to stop recording protected digital content and i think skyHD will be using it in the future after the 1st generation of STB's (using component) have had a good and successful run. as part of the HD logo HDCP is a must so yes they other 2 projectors are not HD ready but are compatable with the signals. no wonder alot of people (i sometimes include myself) get confused because the display is capable of taking the HD signals if they are not encrypted but cannot if they are...............argh shoot me

    seeing as the future formats (blu0ray, HD-DVD) will be using HDCP its seems strange that alot more displays from the past year or so have not included HDCP compilant digital connections. maybe they thought HD was a way off (europe) , but its really taking off at a great speed
     
  22. CAS FAN

    CAS FAN
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    It's silly really as this copy protection will quickly be broken on HD-DVD/BluRay players and people will just run pirated HD material instead! If I am unable to use legit stuff then it's not like I have a choice! I want to be able to run legit HD material through my PJ but the industry is so stupid and caught up with trying to protect intellectual rights that they can't see they are making the problem worse.

    I am totally against piracy but if the industry does something as stupid as this then I will almost want to screw them over as a matter of principle! Hopefully they see sense!
     
  23. Monty Burns

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    Exactly the way I see it too CAS FAN.

    Why should I throw away a perfectly capable projector. If this is not patched up (projector) or removed (protection) then I will happily download films etc and watch them.

    I have never been a big supporter of piracy but, now i'm all up for it - assuming this goes ahead.

    Whats the saying? The tighter they squeeze there fingers the more will slip through?
     
  24. CAS FAN

    CAS FAN
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    Indeed Monty and I hate the industry for making me feel this way through their ill conceived copy protection rubbish!

    Like every copy protection that's gone before, it will be cracked and I can see nothing but a flourishing pirate HD market. I bet there are pirates around the world laughing as the industry creates yet another lucrative market for them to exploit!

    :suicide:
     
  25. Colgate7110

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    I'd be surprised if most projectors could be patched via firmware as decryption can be a very processor-intensive application. Unless the machine was designed with the CPU/DSP cycles to spare, it might not be an option. After some research, it seems my confusion as to whether it was a handshake, an encrypted signal or both, it seems it's both.

    I found this article on Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000727051424/) which talks about a box to bypass HDCP but it reminded me of another aspect of HDCP that I'd forgotten about, namely the revocation lists where content providers can encode a list of keys on the media that the media cannot be played back via making it possible to blacklist devices like the DVIMAGIC. The comments section on the article makes a good case for "big companies won't use the revocation list as that would spark class action suits and alienate customers etc" but at the same time, it's the MPAA, the studios and the content providers that agreed to make HDCP work so they're probably pretty aware of how it works and how it will be used to police invalid devices or attempts to bypass HDCP.

    In fact, a quick search on AVF, brings up this thread with links to loads of bypass boxes: http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227304

    Assuming the revocation list never becomes an issue for these "distribution" boxes, they could be the answer to you non-HDCP compliant projector owners :smashin:

    Cheers,

    Colin
     
  26. CAS FAN

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    So it seems that there are already a wealth of things to help people get by the protection.

    To me it seems like they want HD-DVD & Blu Ray to fail as ...

    a) It will be hard enough getting people to take up a new format as it is without making it so you need a certain type of TV to watch it on. Look at the slow take up of digital TV - it's taken a good 10 years and still not everyone has it! The mass market aren't going to upgrade TV's again (unless they break) in a hurry and people like us generally already have a HDTV and if it's not HDCP compliant then we're not just going to upgrade it for the fun of it!

    b) having a protection system like this just plays into the hands of the pirates and a large %age of people will just go down the pirate HD route as opposed to buying yet another display just so they can watch official discs!

    To be honest I can't say that having a HDCP PJ is even a worry really as even if one of these new formats ever did take off then there will be ways around the protection system.
     
  27. neil c

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    Cas Fan - HDMI inputs are HDCP by default. That is why DVI connections cause confusion, some are HDCP, some arent - HDMI connections are HDCP.

    Therefore your Z3 is HD Ready!

    I thought being a moderator would have all the facts at your finger tips!
     
  28. Colgate7110

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    Oooooh, that had to sting ;) :D
     
  29. CAS FAN

    CAS FAN
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    Actually you show me somewhere where it says it's HDCP compliant then! Not all HDMI connections are HDCP compliant. :smashin:

    So actually I do have the facts ;) .
     
  30. neil c

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    Well here's some more facts.

    Do you realise that the Z2 had a HDCP compliant DVI connection - maybe it would make sense that the Z3 would have a HDCP HDMI connection? You tell me.

    http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sanyo-PLV-Z3.htm


    Find me a HDMI connection that isnt HDCP compliant.
     

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