Question Modem to Powerline adapter to Router not working in New build

[boylsie]

Hi,

So I've moved into a New build flat, which I would've though made the wiring compatible with Powerline adapters however I'm having issues setting up my home network using them.
So my Flat is serviced by IFNL, so I have a fibre cable coming straight into my flat and going into an "ONT" (Optical network terminal), which I am assuming is acting like a modem in my flat. Then from LAN1 to WAN on the Technicolor TG589ac router that I was provided.

For some reason, over a span of about 5-6m and two walls, the signal is dropping to 1 bar occasionally, so I want to move it to the living room which is more centralised. I bought a pair of Netgear PL1000 Powerline adapters which I thought would do the trick.

So the things that I've tried:
M - Modem(ONT), R - Router and P - Powerline Adapters

M -> R -> P -> Laptop via ethernet = This works, I'm getting around 50mbps where I'm paying for 60.
M -> P -> Laptop = This doesn't seem to work
M -> P -> R -> Laptop using Wifi doesn't work.

Am i doing something wrong, or is the ONT not really acting like a modem so I need to go from the ONT to the router, to a powerline to another router?

I called my ISP and they pushed it back on me after trying their troubleshooting, saying its something wrong with the powerline adapters.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[Sloppy Bob]

Am i doing something wrong, or is the ONT not really acting like a modem so I need to go from the ONT to the router, to a powerline to another router?

I'm far from being a networking expert but I would have thought that your options are-

For a device that's in the same area as the router (Laptop, TV etc)

ONT>Router>Ethernet to device in location of router

For a device in a different area/room.

ONT>Router>Powerline adapter in the same room as the Router
Then ... Powerline adapter in the same room as the device>Device.

As far as your wifi is concerned you can buy poweline adapters that also boost wifi, again though how well they'll owrk in your property is unknown until you try it.

You won't get the full advertised speed of your powerline adapters and are unlikely to get the full speed of your internet over them, getting 50 MB/s of a 60 download is pretty decent I'd say for powerlines.

I moved from a property that I got around half my interent speed upstairs and close to full downstairs to one that wouldn't work at all with powerlines and I had to get the house wired with ethernet.

 

[mickevh]

We need to know more about your ONT such as it's make and model. For example, it may be that it's nothing more than a media converter (optical to copper) rather than a modem or maybe a multiplexer/de-multiplexer.

There's more to terminating the ISP line that simply the hardware - something in the line will probably need to know how to establish a logical "session" with the ISP which would be part of the function of a modem and/or router. With the correct software and/or ISP there's no reason a laptop couldn't do that, but it's unlikely to work by "just plugging it in" as in your second test. (Even that is presuming the output form the ONT is ethernet - there's no reason it has to be, it could be something else.)

Was your router supplied by the ISP?

What information has the ISP provided - if any?

Your first (working) scenario would be the best way to do it. If that is curtailing Wi-Fi performance (say) due to the structure of the building materials, then you'd be best to deploy additional Wi-Fi hotspots nearer/in the "bandit" locations and tunnel the "backhaul" over the mains to your router using HomePlug/Powerline technology . (Or "proper" cabled ethernet which would be best.) Some Powerline vendors supply combination powerine/Wi-Fi devices.

 

[boylsie]

I'm trying to move the router to the living room instead of the utility cupboard, It works fine if i just want the powerlines after the router feeding internet via ethernet to one device. But this isn't what I need.

We need to know more about your ONT such as it's make and model. For example, it may be that it's nothing more than a media converter (optical to copper) rather than a modem or maybe a multiplexer/de-multiplexer.

There's more to terminating the ISP line that simply the hardware - something in the line will probably need to know how to establish a logical "session" with the ISP which would be part of the function of a modem and/or router. With the correct software and/or ISP there's no reason a laptop couldn't do that, but it's unlikely to work by "just plugging it in" as in your second test. (Even that is presuming the output form the ONT is ethernet - there's no reason it has to be, it could be something else.)

Was your router supplied by the ISP?

What information has the ISP provided - if any?

Your first (working) scenario would be the best way to do it. If that is curtailing Wi-Fi performance (say) due to the structure of the building materials, then you'd be best to deploy additional Wi-Fi hotspots nearer/in the "bandit" locations and tunnel the "backhaul" over the mains to your router using HomePlug/Powerline technology . (Or "proper" cabled ethernet which would be best.) Some Powerline vendors supply combination powerine/Wi-Fi devices.

Yes, the router was supplied by them, however the ONT was fit into the building by a company called GTC which owns the IFNL network. I know its make is ZTE but as for the model number, I can get that this evening around 6pm when I am back from work.

As for information from the ISP, this is all I have/been given:
seethelight / Help

Unfortunately, they didn't install ethernet ports around the flat. However there is a phone line wired into the living room, maybe I could use this using a converter to ethernet and plug my router into that?

Another thing I will try is borrowing a neighbours router and trying OTU -> Router (turn off its wifi broadcast) -> Powerline -> Second router (broadcasting in better location). I guess this will tell me if the ZTE box is acting as a modem or not?

Thanks.

 

[brunation]

I know its make is ZTE but as for the model number

ZTE H298N ?

Ignore that .. I missed :

Then from LAN1 to WAN on the Technicolor TG589ac router that I was provided.

 

[boylsie]

Nope, the router is the Technicolor TG589ac.
The OTU brand is ZTE but its not that model. I will get it off the back of the box as i get home.

 

[brunation]

Nope, the router is the Technicolor TG589ac.

Yeah, just read it again.

 

[brunation]

It works fine if i just want the powerlines after the router feeding internet via ethernet to one device. But this isn't what I need.

If you look on that (wrong) pdf link you'll see a section titled '
A wired connection using internal wiring'.

 

[mickevh]

Looking at the guides on their site, it looks like the ONT is presenting onto ethernet and also discriminating between the data and voice, albeit that you may not be taking voice from the ISP. It's debatable whether that means it's a "modem" or something else, but it's largely academic as functionally it's presenting you with you an ethernet data circuit.

That being the case, there's no reason M -> P -> R -> Laptop shouldn't work, however, it has some consequences: 1) The powerline devices are "upstream" of your router which means you (probably) won't be able to talk to their admin interfaces to setup or monitor them. That means you'll need to set them up first, then, place them upstream of your router's WAN port. 2) The powerline comms will be "outside" of your network, so if you ever want to use powerline (by adding extra plugs) to extend your internal network somewhere else, you basically cannot unless you have equipment that avail VLAN's or maybe some kind of separate service sets as you cannot mix "internal" and "external" traffic over the powerlines.

BTW - when you tested M -> P -> R -> Laptop did you ensure the cable P -> R was connected to the WAN and not any of the LAN ports on your router? If not, it won't work.

Re-purposing incumbent telephone cable for ethernet depends on the topology of the wiring and whether the cabling deployed is up to the job. If it's cat5 UTP or better and a point-to-point link without any daisy chaining or splicing, it may work if you change the sockets for RJ45's. However, analogue phones use a "common bus" topology and sometimes pretty low grade cable which could prevent them being re-purposed for ethernet.

Finally, if you are going to try testing using a second router as you've suggested, be sure to read the "Using Two Routers Together" FAQ pinned in this forum. If you don't correctly configure and connect them up, you can run into new problems which will confuse the issue.

 

[boylsie]

If you look on that (wrong) pdf link you'll see a section titled '
A wired connection using internal wiring'.

Unfortunately they didnt set up any ethernet internal wiring, they only did it for the phone line so I cannot do it this way.
Model number of the ONT is zte zxhn f620

Looking at the guides on their site, it looks like the ONT is presenting onto ethernet and also discriminating between the data and voice, albeit that you may not be taking voice from the ISP. It's debatable whether that means it's a "modem" or something else, but it's largely academic as functionally it's presenting you with you an ethernet data circuit.

That being the case, there's no reason M -> P -> R -> Laptop shouldn't work, however, it has some consequences: 1) The powerline devices are "upstream" of your router which means you (probably) won't be able to talk to their admin interfaces to setup or monitor them. That means you'll need to set them up first, then, place them upstream of your router's WAN port. 2) The powerline comms will be "outside" of your network, so if you ever want to use powerline (by adding extra plugs) to extend your internal network somewhere else, you basically cannot unless you have equipment that avail VLAN's or maybe some kind of separate service sets as you cannot mix "internal" and "external" traffic over the powerlines.

BTW - when you tested M -> P -> R -> Laptop did you ensure the cable P -> R was connected to the WAN and not any of the LAN ports on your router? If not, it won't work.

Re-purposing incumbent telephone cable for ethernet depends on the topology of the wiring and whether the cabling deployed is up to the job. If it's cat5 UTP or better and a point-to-point link without any daisy chaining or splicing, it may work if you change the sockets for RJ45's. However, analogue phones use a "common bus" topology and sometimes pretty low grade cable which could prevent them being re-purposed for ethernet.

Finally, if you are going to try testing using a second router as you've suggested, be sure to read the "Using Two Routers Together" FAQ pinned in this forum. If you don't correctly configure and connect them up, you can run into new problems which will confuse the issue.

The ONT model number is zte zxhn f620.
Yeah the powerlines ethernet was definitely in the WAN port of the router.

In the end, as it was a neighbours router, I didn't want to mess around with all their settings to have to give it back and reset it all back to what they had it as before. So if I can source another router I will try it, otherwise I might just have to sell the Powerline adapters (waste of money in the end for this project) and just get a repeater instead.

 

[mickevh]

In Wi-Fi, a "repeater" is a particular kind of thing and one of the consequences of using them is that it can clobber your throughput.

If you are going to trade in your existing powerlines, you would be better off to swap them for a pair (or "kit") where the "remote" unit includes and integrated Wi-Fi Access Point (AP) to deploy in the coverage hole(s) (presuming there's nothing wrong with your mains preventing them working.)