1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Modded GC cable and prog scan...

Discussion in 'General Video Gaming Chat' started by NeoBlade, Jun 2, 2002.

  1. NeoBlade

    NeoBlade
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi just a quick question... I read from Lik-sang I think that a modded RGB scart cable would be able to display a prog scan image... Just wondering if its true or not. Plus if a TV (e.g Toshiba 36ZP18) would be able to display a prog. scan image from a Gamecube, would it be possible for the same from a DVD player?

    I know that last question probably should be in a diff thread but I'd like to know. I'm returning the Tosh for either a Panasonic or a Phillips set...

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. groundy

    groundy
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2001
    Messages:
    1,553
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    39
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Ratings:
    +1
    The modded Component to RGB Cable will pass through the Gamecube's Progressive Scan signal on compatible games just fine. The problem lies in that currently, there is no TV in the UK that can accept a Progressive signal input source. The Tosh ZP18 certainly does not. However I think the new Tosh model (the ZD26?) does accept a progressive input signal on it's Component Video sockets. There is a current thread on this model so do a search for more information. In such a case, there would be no need to mod the cable for RGB as you could simply pass the Component feed directly from the Gamecube to the TV and get Progressive Scan where available.

    The only other TV that will accept a pure Progressive signal is those by Loewe. However, they need to have the optional VGA upgrade board installed and the input method is via RGB HV through the VGA socket. Fortunately, you can mod the Gamecube Component Cable to output RGB HV as well by connecting the H and V Sync wires to the DAC chip. In this setup, you can then wire it to a VGA male or female plug and either use it with the Loewe or with your computer's monitor.

    As for your question about the DVD player, both the player and the TV would need to be able to output/accept a Progressive Scan signal.

    :)
     
  3. NeoBlade

    NeoBlade
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Cheers for the reply mate. Its just a bit confusing because I'm using a component connection at the moment (Gamecube) and can view the games in prog scan. The games I have used are Rogue Squadron, Smash Bros Melee, Wave Race and Sega's Soccer Slam. I own a modded Jap GC and the games are US.

    You can tell the quality is a vast improvement with Wave Race. The player models look sharper as does the overall image comapared to an RGB or S-Video connection. With Rogue Squadron the image quality isn't improved by much... but then they deveopled the game within 9 months so I can't complain! As for Smash Bros the quality is also up there with Wave Race.

    Unless I've gone loopy (and the Gamecube is not outputting in prog scan) then why can I see a much better image?

    I know someone on this forum has a Toshiba TV like mine...Think it was Fuzzybee... Have you tested a prog. scan DVD player with your Toshiba by any chance?
     
  4. groundy

    groundy
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2001
    Messages:
    1,553
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    39
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Ratings:
    +1
    Neoblade:

    While you have noticed a vast improvement using Component, you are definately not getting Progressive Scan with your current TV. I know because I used to own one before I changed it for a Loewe Aconda.

    Also, Progressive Scan mode is not automatically activated with the Gamecube. Rather, you need to activate it manually by holding down "B" upon boot-up. A message saying "Do you want to display the game in Progressive Mode", appears. If you were to select "Yes", then the image will spilt in two on your TV because it is not Progessive compatible. Try it and see for yourself as it won't cause any harm.

    You are seeing a better image because Component is the best form of connection available. It is much much better than S-Video but not much different to RGB. How do you know the image via Component is better than RGB unless you have tested your import Cube with a modded Component Cable? Have you done this?

    I have tested all of the methods using the cables I make and can see no real improvement in using Component over RGB. In short, if your TV has Component inputs then use the Nintendo Component Cable with your import Cube. If not, and you want the best signal available to you, then use a modded Component to RGB cable.

    Progressive Scan via the VGA connection on my Loewe does produce the best results overall though.
     
  5. NeoBlade

    NeoBlade
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thank again mate, I just wanted to make sure since I've read somewhere that the only displays that are capable of prog. scan are Plasmas or HDTVs. Ah well. Looks like I'll just leave component alone until I find a 2nd job... Then I should be able to afford a plasma. Heh, well I can dream can't I? ^_^

    Gotta love the UK... Poor PAL conversions and we're well behind in terms of technology. Now all I need to do now is to settle down on what TV to replace my Tosh 36P18. The fun has yet to begin...
     
  6. fuzzybee

    fuzzybee
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,477
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Chesterfield town of the crooked (Spire)
    Ratings:
    +72
    Sorry mate no i have not tested a prog scan dvd player with my toshiba.
    Just out of interest why are you selling your 36zp18 tv?
    I am considering selling mine for the new toshiba as this does output a prog scan image with import games hardware but the missus likes the one we have so I am a bit stuck at the mo.

    I love the tosh but the dark edges you can see on some programs ie football cricket etc seem to leap out at me now I know they are there.

    I know groundy got rid of his tosh because of this is this the reason you are getting rid?
     
  7. NeoBlade

    NeoBlade
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I'm getting rid of my tosh because of 3 faults I've seen consistently within the first 2 weeks... The main problem is this horizontal spiking and waving when viewing a 4:3 and widescreen image. Its a bit hard to explain but I'll try anyway. Since I haven't got Sky just yet I just use a standard aerial and as you know not everything is broadcasted in widescreen.

    When watching BB1 the top of the screen waves about, practically rendering 1.5cm of the top of the screen void. Then theres the horizontal spiking that emits from that - When using a 4:3 ratio on a widescreen TV you obviously get black bars on the left and right. The spiking basically breeches this and distorts the image even more. At first I thought it was external interference but it wasn't. Tried a digital source like my PS2 and Gamecube and it still applied.

    I called Comet for an engineer and he didn't have a clue. His solution was to watch everything using the Cinema or Subtitle ratios (basically enlarging the image, cropping the top and bottom of the screen) and that this spiking was normal. He also said that its because the TV isn't 100Hz and was designed to display everything in widescreen (regardless of the input ratio) that caused the problem. Anyone with this Tosh TV knows that it is 100Hz capable and that we didn't buy the TV to view a cropped image. Sadly I wasn't home when he arrived to tell him otherwise.

    Arranged for a 2nd engineer and he saw the problem right away and said I can apply for a replacement TV. Other things like the "dirty screen" I can get used to, even though it shows up a lot when playing Rogue Squadron (Hoth) but colour radiation or whatever on the top left isn't a good thing - The top left area often becomes green and the pale vertical lines eitherside of the image regardless of ratio is also annoying.

    Other problems that people have talked about like buzzing and that hasn't happened but I'm going to get a different TV regardless. The Tosh was highly recommended by all the mags and it does indeed have a stunning picture when its fault free. I've also heard that the new Tosh that does support prog. scan still uses the same core components that causes all these problems...

    So now I'm looking for a new 36" set... So far I'm looking at the Panasonic PB50 and the Philips with Pixel Plus. I've heard that theres a new Panasonic model coming out but I don't know when exactly... 2-3 months or in sept ::shrugs:: Its a shame really because the Tosh looks the part and problems aside it has stunning delivery. Plus the Tosh is the only TV that has component inputs... Of which for this price bracket all TVs should have.

    Need a new TV soon... Trouble is I can't decide on which one >_<

    As for trading/selling your current Tosh for the new model.. I'm sure it doesn't look radically different, so you might be able to get away with a silent swap <g> But then having the missus's wrath of death isn't a thought most people like!
     
  8. McPastry

    McPastry
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Sorry to break this to you Neo but the new Toshibas look radically different to the picture frame models (much bulkier with side speaker grilles) so you might not be able to slip that one past 'er indoors!

    I've tried my US Gamecube on the 32in model in a shop, and the progressive scan looks amazing, with no visible scanlines. I didn't notice the famed Toshiba 'dirty screen' effect (but I suppose this could have due to lighting conditions in the store or tv settings). Funnily enough, I tested it using the Hoth level from Rogue Leader!
     
  9. NeoBlade

    NeoBlade
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hehe ah well. The picture frame does look good, sad to hear that the design has changed. Did you boot up the Gamecube in prog.scan mode? The "dirty screen" is usually visable straight off the bat. Check the real time intro when starting the hoth level and look for a static light grey matrix/grid pattern.

    Oddly enough the demo Tosh didn't have any of the problems mentioned except the dirty screen. Once I had it at home though within 2 weeks things started to go wrong. If you can't notice it, then don't look for it since it could distract your viewling pleasure.

    I'm just going to wait a bit longer so any bugs found can be ironed out... I really like the Tosh TV but I can do without the problems.

    Where did you see the new model? I'm looking at t heir website and theres no info on it at all...
     
  10. McPastry

    McPastry
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    The grid pattern is the game, not the TV thankfully (probably due to video compression in the cutscenes or summat). I've just checked it on my 29in Sony 50hz tv (via s-video) and the pattern you describe is still there (not as visible mind you but I'm guessing the sharpness of a component connection makes it more apparent). I think the 'dirty screen' effect is more a kind of graininess as if the inside of the tube is dirty (not noticable on the 32ZP26D).

    Yeah I did boot up the game in progressive mode, and thought for a sec that it hadn't worked (piccy disappeared for a couple of secs). But then the screen 'blipped' and the game appeared in prog scan! Also, the game was in proper 16:9 widescreen, progressive being the only way to get this from a Gamecube. This was in my local Powerhouse BTW, the only store in town which has this set.

    To find the set on http://www.toshiba.co.uk you have to select 'general tv' rather than 'home cinema tv'

    Hope this info helps,

    Craig
     
  11. fuzzybee

    fuzzybee
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,477
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Chesterfield town of the crooked (Spire)
    Ratings:
    +72
    Interesting neoblade as I have not encountered any of the faults you have listed?
    I am generally very pleased with my tosh I have always had toshiba tv's and in general I think they are the best.

    Thanks to Mcpastry for the link to the new toshiba 36 inch set I am undecided if I like the stand or not.
    I will have to audition a set asap.
     
  12. NeoBlade

    NeoBlade
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    McPastry, I was looking at the site but clicked on home Cinema TV first -_- Ah well... Is the model number 36ZD26? Or is it the 32Z13? I looked at the specs for both of these and there isn't a mention about prog scan support...

    As for the dirty screen it isn't due to the compression because the cutscenes are in realtime. If you really want to see it though you'd have to have your contrast high. Even What HiFi commented on this "dirty screen" in their review, but they called it "a grid pattern". If you can't see it though then don't look for it unless you have to.

    Fuzzybee, its good to hear that you haven't encountered the same problems as I because without those its a cracking TV. If you REALLY are interested to find more information about it all then its best to run a search for the Tosh TV. You'll find plenty of threads with more Tosh owners.

    As for me.. I'm willing to give Tosh a 2nd chance with this new model. I just hope I don't get a bad unit.
     
  13. McPastry

    McPastry
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    The grid pattern is deffo the game and not the tv. Give it a try on another set, the pattern will still be visible I guarantee it!!! I think although the cutscenes are rendered with the in-game engine, they are stored as movie clips and not 'on-the-fly'. Otherwise how come they disappear in-game on the same colour background?
     
  14. NeoBlade

    NeoBlade
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    The grid pattern is there alright... After all, 30+ owners of the Tosh can't all be wrong on this forum. As for the real time engine, other games like Final Fantasy X are the same. After a cut scene the screen does blank out and then you're in control. I will try other games and movies for an example when I get time. I haven't used my Tosh set because I'm at work, etc etc.

    I'll be back in touch.
     
  15. McPastry

    McPastry
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Sorry what I'm trying to say is that the grid pattern is there on ANY make of TV, including my 4 year old 4:3 Sony. So I don't think that it's a fault on the Tosh sets.
     
  16. NeoBlade

    NeoBlade
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Ah.. Well if you're looking v.closely then you can see the individual pixels that make up the image...That happens with all displays. You don't have to look that close though. I'll take a picture with my digital camera to show it, if you honestly want to see the matrix pattern on the screen. Its your call.
     
  17. McPastry

    McPastry
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Mate, I'm not disputing what you say (I've seen it on the Toshes myself). All I'm saying that this 'quirk' is also visible on other brands, leading me to the conclusion that the game is responsible. On my Sony, you can clearly see the grid pattern (a repeating sequence of around five small horizontal lines across the whole screen yeah?). This is in the cutscenes and not the playable sections, exactly as you describe.
     
  18. NeoBlade

    NeoBlade
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    It could well be, since I can't confirm it exactly if its using FMV or real time cutscenes. On my Panasonic is was crystal clear but I, along with every Tosh owner would dearly love any other problems not to crop up again. Thats why I'm giving Tosh a 2nd chance with the new model. I should be getting a phone call about the Panasonic PB50 tomorrow but I'll ask for the new Tosh and have that instead.

    Once I get the set I'll be sure to fill you guys in and if any faults crop up I'll take a piccy. Not only to show you guys if wanted but to show the often dull engineers that supposed to come over and fix the problems. If the engineer comes over and tells me to watch everything in the Cinema or Subtitle modes I'll slap him with a wet noodle >_<
     
  19. fuzzybee

    fuzzybee
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,477
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Chesterfield town of the crooked (Spire)
    Ratings:
    +72
    Neoblade

    please make sure you do as you say and let us know about the new tosh as I rearlly need to know.

    Thanks mate
     
  20. NeoBlade

    NeoBlade
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Well I got the phone call... They haven't got any of the new Toshibas in stock for another 2 weeks. I'm going for the 36ZT29B model and it certainly doesn't look as sleek as the ZP18. As long as the problems don't crop up I'll be a happy man. Got the Panasonic PB50 as the next replacement if I'm not happy with the set as well.

    I'll keep you guys up to date as it breaks. Same time, same batchannel folks.
     

Share This Page

Loading...