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MMR debate......again!!!

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Mad Mikeyboy, Oct 11, 2005.

  1. Mad Mikeyboy

    Mad Mikeyboy
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    I posted a thread on this topic nearly a year ago when my son was only a few months old. Now that he's 13months old, the time for the MMR has come round and my wife and I are pretty nervous for the wee fella.

    Naturally we want what's best for him and are going ahead with the jab. But is this what's best for him?

    I guess I'm really just looking for some reassurance from the general punters out there. Your views and comments once again on this long debated topic would be appreciated.
     
  2. Ian J

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    My opinion is that it's preferable to have individual jabs than MMR as whilst there appears to be no proof that MMR and autism are connected there is a lot of circumstantial evidence and even if the risk is only one in 1,000 is it worth taking.
     
  3. Mr.D

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    My kids had it , they are fine.
     
  4. Wild Rumpus

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    Our son is going for it on Friday, we are a bit nervous, but the balance of medical opinion is weighted very much in favour. In the end you can only go with the recommendations from the experts. We have a friend who is a G.P. and her children had the MMR innoculations.
     
  5. Drd

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  6. mrtbag

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    Any questions you have should be answered here - http://www.mmrthefacts.nhs.uk/

    One thing that swings it for me:

    Edit: Oops too late.
     
  7. blackrod

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    There is no link between the MMR and autism. Dr. Wakeman has a lot to bloody answer for because his study publication has resulted in the number of mumps and measles cases increasing massively. Mumps and Measles are not harmless (albeit uncomfortable) childhood diseases, in adults Mumps can cause infertility and Measles can cause brain damage or even death in some cases. Dr. Wakeman's study was only based on 12 children, other study's worldwide have taken into account thousands of children and no link has been found.

    From what I have read, there is little or no difference in the rates of autism per head of population between countries that use MMR and those that use single jabs.

    The whole issue surrounding MMR has caused parents to be concerned that this is another government cover-up like the BSE outbreak. This is not the case, the vast majority of the developed world use MMR, not just Britain.

    Anyway, off my soapbox and if it helps, I have a 5 month old son who will be having the MMR jab and up until recently, my wife was a nurse at a private residential school for autistic children. :)


    See this link for more info:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1804509.stm
     
  8. lee789

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    I researched this issue quite a bit before we got our daughter immunised with the MMR.

    The whole issue of "the link" was put forward by this doctor Wakefield guy, and his was the only study to find a link, and I think they based it on 12 children. To me that is not a very representative sample for a jab that is taken by kids through out the world.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3513365.stm

    My opinion is that there is no proof that there is a link based on this one study.

    Also there is no evidence that MMR has lead to an increase in autism in our society (see the recent study in Japan also). There is therefore no evidence that single jabs are better either.

    Its a big decision. I would research as much as you feel neccessary both on the NHS site and independently and make an informed choice.

    A heck of a lot of people get the MMR and equally some don't so people make different decisions - the right choice is your choice.

    Slightly off topic, our diet is filled with so many chemicals of which the long term effect is uncertain that you could go crazy thinking of all things that could go wrong in life. There are one off studies that find links between loads of foods and loads of problems. Some will be valid some won't be. I choose to ignore the study which says red wine is bad for you and go for the one which says its good for you.

    [edit-took me a while to draft this and Blackrod has now covered the Wakefield bit]
     
  9. krish

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    Many links between items we ingest and our health are purely statistical and there is usually no biological/chemical links whatsoever.... it is then usually a matter of lifestyle and socioeconomics.

    For example there was once a claim that fresh coffee drinkers (not instant) had a lower risk of heart disease. No scientific link was discovered. Demographics were then examined and it was concluded that such drinkers were more likely to be relatively higher earners and better educated, and lead healthier lifestyles in general (exercise, fresh fruit and veg, fibre, low fat, low cholesterol, low salt etc) and the coffee itself had no positive impact on their health.
     
  10. mjn

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    I haven't had the MMR jab or the individual jabs either, and as a result i had Mumps when i was about 4 or 5, but am still to have the Measles.

    But, i think if you have any doubt then, just go for the individual jabs, might cost a bit more but hey, its only money compared to your health.
     
  11. Ethics Gradient

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    In practical terms - you should have nothing to fear, just get it done.

    All this mess has occured due to bad science, media hype and public missunderstanding.
    A study was done and published that was picked up by the media and which scared the general public .... it was later shown to be false, but they way the media have handled it ... and the way the public missunderstand science and scientists, its become a sort of hysteria.

    For example:
    Several years ago, a study was done into the effects of voilent TV shows on children.
    The person(s) doing the study went to juvinille detention centres and observed what violent and trouble children watched on telly, and it was shown that they watched a large amount of violent programs.
    They therefore published a paper that was reported on the BBC news showing the link between violent children and violent programs.

    .... however, what they should have done is checked what ALL children watched ... which someone did afterwards .... and found that the violent children watched exactly the same amount of violent TV as children that had no problems at all.

    The same sort of thing has happened with the MMR vaccine scares.
    Like anything else, if we are logical and scientific about something, we can't say anythign is 100% 'safe' - there are risks with ALL medicines and procedures. They are usually very minimal. When the scientists were asked by the media and parents ... is the MMR jab 100% safe, they answered honestly and said no, but its a very minimal risk ..... all the media and parents heard was the ' no ' and decided that it backed up the earlier claims and their fears.

    In all the studies done and examined thoroughly, there has been NO link found with MMR and Autism.

    I can understand your worries as a parent wanting to protect your child to the ebst of your abilities - but from everything I have read and studying on the subject, I don't think you should worry.
     
  12. Ian J

    Ian J
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    How about the New Scientist article that concludes "The study cannot rule out the possibility that MMR triggers autism in a tiny number of children, as some claim, but it does show there is no large-scale effect."
     
  13. hulkhead

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    our boy had it and he is fine as well.
     
  14. mjn

    mjn
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    It's amazing how many scientists we have on the forums..........
     
  15. MartinImber

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    The original survey with autism was greatly flawed - get him immunised!
     
  16. blackrod

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    How is having all three immunisations in one jab going to affect a child any differently than having them seperately? The amount of viral particles used in the vaccine is tiny, but just enough for the body's immune system to create antibodies to tackle the virus if needed in the future. There is no 'overloading' of the immune system as some people believe.

    There is a much greater risk of harm from contracting Mumps or Measles than there is of a child becoming autistic from having the MMR or single jabs. The Swedish government has fully researched the number of autism cases pre and post MMR and no increase was found.

    The New Scientist article does state, "The study cannot rule out the possibility that MMR triggers autism in a tiny number of children, as some claim, but it does show there is no large-scale effect.". However, it cannot quantify how many would go on to develop autism anyway regardless of what vaccines they had.
     
  17. Ethics Gradient

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    A fine example of someone missinterpreting science.

    .... re read the article -- nowehere in it does it say there is a proven link.

    The phrase you are concerned with ' cannot rule out the possibility '
    Just like I mentioned in my earlier post, science tends not to make statements like 100% safe.

    If you ask a scientist - if 1,000 people jump out of a plane without parachutes - will they defineately die as a direct result of it -- he will say no.
    He will say they will most likely die - but he can't rule out the possibility of somone surviving.

    I repeat - there has been NO proven link between MMR and autism.

    Actually read the articles instead of scanning through them looking to boil up your fear...........................................
     
  18. Ethics Gradient

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    I'm one \o/
     
  19. lee789

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    Looking at the GoogleAds on this page, there are a lot of people making money out of the single jabs.
     
  20. lee789

    lee789
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    Except after posting this every ad was about a widescreen tv :)
     
  21. overkill

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    All three of ours have had the MMR. No problems with any of them. At least related to the MMR anyway............... ;)
     
  22. Mad Mikeyboy

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    well mostly, so far, the responses seem to be pretty positive in favour of the MMR but what I would like to know is-

    1. Is there any difference in immunisation levels if three seperate jabs are given also any adverse side affects. There is loads to read about the combined jab but not so much on the seperate jabs.

    2. What is the actual cost of the three seperate jabs..are we talking hundreds of pounds or what?? I know the cost is not really important if I think it would be safer but it would be nice to know.

    oops....maybe i should look at the ads once in a while.
     
  23. lee789

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    http://www.singlejabs.co.uk/jabs.htm

    Google ads linked to this £130 for each.

    Also on this site - there seems to be a very honest appraisal of the various studies which have been done. Which I'm sure will be of use. So I take back my earlier rather cynical comment.
     
  24. overkill

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    Good link Lee, in particular as it sets out straight away to clarify the fact that the weight of evidence is balanced in favour of the MMR. So they are just offering an alternative to those who have been panicked by the press.

    The bloody UK press.................. first against the wall would be that shower of bigoted liars! :mad:
     
  25. blackrod

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    Even the single jabs site has 9 study's for the MMR and only 2 against, both of them by the discredited Wakeman!
     
  26. MartinImber

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    No you're not - you're a space ship! :hiya:
     
  27. IronGiant

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    I'm a scientist :blush:
    So's my wife and she's done a fair amount of work on the subject, all three of ours had the MMR jab, and we'd have gone for separate jabs if we had any qualms about the subject.

    Oh, and never forget that New Scientist is a magazine, not a scientific journal

    Dave
     
  28. pjclark1

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    1) GPs are paid a bonus if they get a large percentage on their list to take the jabs
    2) GPs are not medical researchers, they only know what is in the leaflets they are given.
    3) You won't find many doctors speaking against MMR in public in the UK, they tend to lose their jobs.
    4) I was with a senior consultant at Gt. Ormand St. childrens hospital when he gave his private opinion that "giving a young child the MMR jab, was the same as child abuse and likely to harm their undeveloped immune system"

    A damaged immune system will not show up immediately, but will show as asthma, allergies, excema, diabetes, etc. in later life. Strangely enough all these problems have become rife recently.
     
  29. Ethics Gradient

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    The Queen mother was behing the JFK assasination attempt - and aliens live in Accrington.

    NOT vaccinateing children is child abuse when you have been given the social advantages to do so.

    I sugguest you pack your bags and go off to central africa and live in a mud hut and watch children that haven't had such opertunties die infront of you of preventable diseases before you spread such utter scaremongering tripe.
     
  30. Alan_W

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    GPs are paid. Part of the payment is target related, not a bonus. It is offensive to imply that doctors would harm young children for money :mad:
    8yrs training to read leaflets :mad: :mad:
    They tend not to beleive the Daily Mail and are better positioned to scientifically assess the facts, not be influenced by the media having 2 talking heads in the studio 0 1 for , 1 against. An disproportionate ratio taking into account the strenght of evidence

    Who? What speciality??

    Just since the MMR?? :lease:
    MMR is resposible for global warming. FACT.Find the papers to disprove that theory then :lesson:
     

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