MMA Discussion Thread Part VI

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DrPhil

Distinguished Member
Continued from the old thread here;

http://www.avforums.com/forums/sport/1109709-mma-discussion-thread-part-v-67.html

Like the Energiser Bunny, we just keep going and going...​

PS, Copied my previous post into here to make it easier for the inevitable quoting of my "colourful" opinions on Mr Bisping. :rotfl: (The guy who will shortly adorn many of your avatars, and not in a good way)

Plus it repeats my statement that I have gained considerable respect for Bisping's ability as a fighter.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​

Phheeeeewwwww!

It's tough to be a fan! Usually I watch a fight as an impartial onlooker. I may have one person I'd like to see win the fight, to be proved right in my prediction etc but rarely do I have that kind of football fan support for a particular fighter. Last time I felt that nervous going into a fight was Davis vs Hardy at 99, but Silva vs Bisping was just as bad!

Anyway, was going to respond to some of the previous comments individually but I'm tired, (worked til 12 last night and had to watch the fights when I got home, plus I have a suspected dose of potentially fatal man flu coming on. Will try to cover the points in the main review.


First, the unseen prelims…

Te-Huna defeated Pokrajac by 3rd round TKO

Dolloway defeated Reljic by UD, 29-28

Elvis Sinosic injured a shoulder in taining and was unable to make his fight with Haseman, so it was just dropped.


Prelims shown on the main card…

Lytle defeated Foster by 1st round knee bar
I was worried about Lytle in this fight as he seemed to be doing what he has done a lot of recently and swung like a lunatic instead of using technical striking. However it was a beautiful knee bar. Made even more fun for me because we did knee bars and leg locks in training last week! Nasty injury for Foster but yet another bonus night for Lytle.

Soszynski defeated Bonner by 3rd round TKO (cut)
I did notice the fast attack by Sos, despite Bonner coming out looking for the glove touch. Not sure that he meant it as dirty as it seemed, unlike a few events back when someone offered their hand and then threw a punch when the opponent went to touch. I think he just missed the gesture by Bonner and attacked from the bell. I suspect it was the realisation of his dirty trick that led to his offer and eventual insistence on touching at the start of the 3rd.

However what bothered me more about Soszynski's fair play was at the end of either 1 or 2, Bonner landed a kick in the nuts. Sos grabbed his balls and screwed up his face, then the bell went and he let go and wandered back to his corner as though it had never happened. Fair enough he was going to get a rest but in the same way Koscheck was holding his face, squinting and barely able to see, then just opened it and carried on, I think Sos got a low shot that didn't really catch but played it up. Either to get a breather or to throw Bonner off his game and/or make him wary of throwing leg kicks. (I feel a bit strange complaining about a man not rubbing his nuts but you get the point)

Sportsmanship aside, Sos looked great and Bonner needs to look outside of the UFC. DW may not cut him, but he should make the move himself IMO. His striking defence is non existent and while that may lead to exciting fights, he ain't going to win too many. Unfortunate that the headbutt ended it and it may even get overturned to a no contest, but I see no need for a replay as Sos was battering him. Bonner troubled him a few times but it was only going 1 way IMO.

Fair play to Sos for his sportsmanship at the end, although he should have acknowledged that it was not really his “win” and at least offered a rematch.


Main Card

Cro-Cop defeated Peroush by 2nd round TKO (cut)
Not vintage Cro-Cop by any means, gutted we didn't see any head kick attempts! However he showed good composure on the ground, good takedown defence and some nasty GnP to cause the cut. It was a bad gash for sure. I'd still like to see Cro-Cop face Rothwell when Ben is fit again, will be a little more interesting now if Cro-Cop gains confidence from this fight. At least he looked motivated and interested, unlike when he fought Dos Santos.

Bader defeated Jardine by 3rd round KO
Ryan Bader must have been disgusted when Cain Velasquez KO'd Nog, it cost Bader $50k! Sweet KO of Jardine and no grounds for the early stoppage complaints by Jardine. Despite the fact that his arms were limp and his eyes rolling when the ref stopped in, he failed to notice that he had collapsed on top of his own leg, pretty damn painful if you ever do that, the ref had to pull his leg back out from under him! It had moments of becoming a dull fight because Bader was relying on takedown attempts but his power makes the difference. In the same way Hughes was/is a dominant wrestler stood out in his prime because he has great submissions, Bader has that KO power to separate him from the pack of boring lay'n'pray artists.

As I said in the preview, I don't think Jardine will get cut yet, as he has faced so many top 10 fighters in his losing streak, but a fight against Bonner might be a plan. Loser may not get sacked, but should take the hint and quit!

Sotiropolous defeated Stevenson by UD (30-27)
I was extremely happy to be wrong on my shout for this one. I love to watch Sotiropolous on the ground and I've never been a huge fan of Stevenson, (largely due to his stupid nickname and the fact that Rogan uses it all the time, Joe Daddy shoots, Joe Daddy goes for the guillotine etc). Why Joe Rogan, why?

Anyway, rant aside, When he came trotting down to the cage grinning like an idiot it seemed clear that as Sotiropolous had suggested, “Daddy” was looking beyond him. Loved the fight itself, GS was sublime on the ground and competent on his feet. True he did look gassed in the third, but he didn't fight like it. He still stuffed Stevenson's powerful takedown attempts and controlled the fight. This shoots Sotiropolous right into the mix to fight the likes of Maynard, Florian etc before stepping in with BJ! Maynard and Stevenson are quite similar in terms of size, strength and style so Sotiropolous could certainly beat him. Florian would be tougher as he has better stand up than most LWs and has great BJJ.

Silva defeated Bisping by UD, (29-28)
Thank God for that… Closer fight than I expected! Let me get this out of the way first,

I give a lot of respect to Bisping for his performance.

He probably gained more respect from me and other “haters” for a courageous loss than he would have with a dancing jabbing win.

Anyway, to the fight. Come on folks, there was nothing wrong with the decision. Bisping took a close first round. Wanderlei took a close second and he dominated the 3rd. He stuffed all Bisping's takedown attempts in that round, landed more shots and destroyed him at the end. If that fight had been even 2 more seconds longer Bisp would have been out, the ref was ready to step in and Silva had already landed 1 follow up punch after the knock down.

However Bisping gave it his all, got a few takedowns, landed some clean strikes and generally made the effort to finish the fight rather than just dance and score. That said I think his takedown attempts were point scoring as he accomplished nothing when on the ground. Regarding his fear of getting hit, I think the point that is being made is that he reacts badly when caught. Yes they are professional fighters and get hit for a living but his reaction and attitude when someone lands a clean shot is almost like he's thinking “Oh crap here we go again”, like he's having Hendo flashbacks! Most fighters look annoyed when they get hit with a clean shot, Bisping looks worried. I think that the Hendo KO and (although he won) the Kang knockdown have made Bisping feel that he has a glass chin. I don't think he has a glass one, but not a granite one either but his own insecurity over it seems to be bothering him.

Now my inevitable moaning about our cocky friend...

Not just because of his pre-fight waffle etc, that's par for the course with most fighters. And I know he made the effort at the end to be humble in his interview, but watch him between rounds. He brushes off doctors and corner crew like second class citizens. He snapped at one person for using a wet towel instead of a dry one and had a go at someone else later for a similar issue. It was the same as they way he snapped at his corner at 100 because they told him to stop circling into Hendo's right (look how that panned out).

Yes I know that's just me finding something else to dislike him for, but hey, I'm just calling it like I see it. The point being, he gained a lot of my respect as a fighter, but not as a person. :nono:

Silva above all, looked weird. Skinny little body and big surgically adjusted head stuck on top! He fought fairly well but I think he could have been more aggressive earlier instead of clock watching. Maybe worried that the weight cut would tire him if he went gung ho? I know that on the ESPN “MMA live” show both Florian and the other guy (can't remember his name) picked Bisping to win due to Wanderlei's first 185 cut being too much. I actually thought he looked less winded than he did against Franklin. Maybe his cautious gameplan was due to his potential cardio loss. One thing Bisping doesn't ever do is tire so if Wandy did slow down, Bisping would have swarmed him and probably won.

Velasquez defeated Noguiera by 1st round KO
Velasquez is another fighter I have new found respect for. I didn't dislike him before. He was not in the Bisping mould of “hyped to be huge, but really only mid level” type. He was the “hyped to be huge, may or not be”, similar to Carwin. Now he has proved himself for sure, and showed power that makes his failure to finish Kongo even more of a mystery. This means that if the winner of Mir vs Carwin comes out of their fight with any kind of injuries or the fight is a long battle, Velasquez will likely get a title shot first. I'm all in favour of that as I made a long winded argument a while ago that the winner of Nog/Velasquez was more deserving anyway.

As for Nog, damn I feel bad for him. He has made a career out of outlasting fighters and having a solid enough chin to take a hammering and survive. That can't happen anymore as his body just won't take the punishment. He may take a good shot from a small HW not known for KO power like Couture, but against the beasts of the division like Velasquez, Carwin, Lesnar or even Dos Santos, it just won't work. Good God, imagine if Lesnar landed a shot like Velasquez did? They'd need a mop for the blood and a bucket for his head!

As someone already commented, a few exhibition type fights is all I think Nog has left, as he just seems too slow, too weary and too worn down. I had picked him to win based on my not being convinced about Velasquez and his showing against Couture, but this was a sad and sorry showing from the big man.


In summary, a very good event, solid fights, nothing boring apart from maybe a round of Bader vs Jardine and the crowd were great.

Bonuses
Fight of the Night - Sotiropolous vs Stevenson
Submission of the Night – Lytle
KO of the Night – Velasquez

PS, Stu (and others) I think I get to choose the avatars, although something Lesnar related might be nice. I will get back to you all, you know who you are…
 
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Boris360

Well-known Member
Silva above all, looked weird. Skinny little body and big surgically adjusted head stuck on top!

He looked completely different and not in a good way. Who'd have thought it was possible for a cosmetic surgeon to make Silva look uglier than he did before? He used to have a flat button nose now he has the biggest hooter in MMA! He must've pointed to a picture of Gerard Depardieu in the consultant's 'nose selection' catalogue! :facepalm:

@Jason B re: people still critizing Bisping -
My beef with Bisping has always been his attitude not his ability. It peeves me that UK fighters were suddenly being booed following Bisping's gobbyness in the TUF house. That said, he could not have been more gracious in defeat than he was against Silva so I tip my hat to him for that. Also, there was some talk about Bisping trash talking before the fight but in the interview I saw with him, he made a point saying "I'm not going to talk sh*t about Wanderlei because the guy's a legend of the sport". If he was talking trash, I obviously missed it.
 
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DrPhil

Distinguished Member
Also, there was some talk about Bisping trash talking before the fight but in the interview I saw with him, he made a point saying "I'm not going to talk sh*t about Wanderlei because the guy's a legend of the sport". If he was talking trash, I obviously missed it.

May have been me, to be honest I didn't hear much from him in the pre fight but his camp did talk some crap. And as I said I don't pay that much attention to anyone's pre-fight talk these days. It's his attitude in the ring towards his own team that bugged me last night.
 

Boris360

Well-known Member
May have been me, to be honest I didn't hear much from him in the pre fight but his camp did talk some crap. And as I said I don't pay that much attention to anyone's pre-fight talk these days. It's his attitude in the ring towards his own team that bugged me last night.

Someone else pointed that out to me when we were watching the fight but I'd cut him some slack for that to be honest. It's not a 'normal' environment to be in when you're across the ring from someone who's trying to kill you and it doesn't necessarily reflect how you'll behave towards other people when you're back in the real world.
 

DrPhil

Distinguished Member
Someone else pointed that out to me when we were watching the fight but I'd cut him some slack for that to be honest. It's not a 'normal' environment to be in when you're across the ring from someone who's trying to kill you and it doesn't necessarily reflect how you'll behave towards other people when you're back in the real world.

True, but I've never seen any other fighter show disrespect to their own team during a fight and I've seen it from Bisping a few times now. :rolleyes:

Some news...

  • Frank Mir really is an ass.

    iFight365.com – Pro wrestling and MMA news covering WWE, UFC, TNA and more » Frank Mir Wants To Kill Brock Lesnar If They Meet For A Third Time

    I hope DW takes action on him for this one. I've nothing against trash talk, and I commented above that I pay no attention to it anymore but this is well over the line.

  • DW confirmed that Velasquez will fight for the title if Mir/Carwin is unable

  • 110 broke the Acer Arena's gate records, and was also the highest attended non US/Canadian event. DW said that they intend to make Oz a yearly trip. yeah, they said that about Ireland too... :mad:
  • Rampage has signed the bout agreement for the Evans fight. Apparently the UFC had filed suit with him as he had backed out of the fight to do the A-Team. He then agreed to come back but wanted a new contract. The UFC told him to get stuffed on the new contract as his old one was still valid. The only interesting thing about this story IMO is the fact that Rampage wanted a new deal, rather than just wanting to fulfil his original one and then walk away as he had originally said.
 

RicksonGracie1972

Distinguished Member

Boris360

Well-known Member
Some news...



  • I don't think he'll even get to Lesnar. He needs to worry about not getting knocked out against Carwin first! Am I the only person that thinks that Carwin will destroy Frank Mir?
 

Crimson Monkee

Active Member
True, but I've never seen any other fighter show disrespect to their own team during a fight and I've seen it from Bisping a few times now. :rolleyes:

I agree that the way he dismissed his corner did seem a bit out of order, I think after the 1st round it looked like he was more concerned with smiling for the camera than listening to good advice... maybe he needs to visit Greg Jackson and get talked to in that calm hypnotic over the top voice between rounds. The thought crept into my mind that maybe Bisping is surrounded by yes men who don't want to upset him too much, when really they should be controlling his mood and doing what they know is best for him and making sure he heeds their tactical advice.

..but overall as a fighter Bisping is improving, lossless records mean less in MMA, he's far from washed up and is definately no where near as far as he can go!
 

RicksonGracie1972

Distinguished Member
What these journalists don't seem to realise is that most Aussies reading that will just say "That sounds bonza mate, how do I subscribe to the show?".:thumbsup:


I thought the Aussie Journalists would have said the same thing.

Re Carwin Vs Mir, not sure about this one. Carwin does have very heavy hands and could knock out anyone but he does leave himself open. I think against Gonzaga he was tagged and only KO'd Gonzaga because Gonzaga was trying to finish Carwin.
Will be interesting though.
 

Boris360

Well-known Member
maybe he needs to visit Greg Jackson and get talked to in that calm hypnotic over the top voice between rounds.

I always get the feeling that Greg Jackson is really aware of the camera and just tries to impress with that over the top manner that you mentioned.

I noticed that Quinton Jackson's technical advice hasn't changed much. Didn't he advise Bisping to "Just Knock him out". :facepalm: He seems to just bark the sort of things that your half senile Grandad might shout from the crowd.
 

LCR_Dave

Active Member
True, but I've never seen any other fighter show disrespect to their own team during a fight and I've seen it from Bisping a few times now. :rolleyes:

Some news...



  • what a jerk , i cant believe he even said it to be honest, oh well maybe he'll end up with the injurys.........

    I don't think he'll even get to Lesnar. He needs to worry about not getting knocked out against Carwin first! Am I the only person that thinks that Carwin will destroy Frank Mir?

    i dont think so, i think frank will bull dose straight through him, i think him putting weight on has done him massive favours, and the longer brock is out the stronger frank will get, if he has a chance to beat brock it will be on brocks next fight but say he does win you can hear it now.....He only beat brock cos brocks been ill ect. lmao
 

g8tecrasher

Active Member
Lol...Rampage's advice doesn't quite do the trick does it.
Good fighter but awful coach.

The quote of the night did come from Rampage

"Mike, MIKE if you want to win you just gotta knock him out"
 

DrPhil

Distinguished Member
WOO HOO!

Booked my hotels last week for Vegas, still had no confirmation of dates for an event but couldn't wait any longer as the wife was getting fidgety. Booked 3 days in the Bellagio and then 4 in the MGM, over the weekend of the 3rd July.

Checked the news today, and the UFC have made the official request to the Nevada State AC and booked the venue... UFC 116 - July 3rd, MGM Grand! I is a happy bunny.
 

brynhh

Banned
[*]DW confirmed that Velasquez will fight for the title if Mir/Carwin is unable

This has been bugging me for weeks. Why is the Mir v Carwin fight an interim belt? Why not just make it a regular title contender fight and whoever is available first from both fights gets the shot. Or have the winners face off to get a chance at Brock.

The main thing that bugs me is the fact Mir already faced Brock a year ago, yet down in LW, Kenny wont be getting another shot any time soon according to Dana, so how is that fair?

It'll be Brocks 6th fight and 3 of them against the same guy. This doesn't help fuel peoples opinon that Brock is crap and hasn't fought anyone. Give him some others and let's see if he can beat anyone that comes to him, like 3 of the other 4 champs are doing.
 

brynhh

Banned
It seems the uneducated and misinformed Aussie Journalists are just as bad as the British ones :mad:
'Smell the blood!' The sickening roar for gore

What an awful article. Talk about having an agenda before even writing the article. Beating each other to a pulp? Come off it, fighters can get just as hurt in boxing. Hell, look back to the Mayweather Hatton fight, Hatton didn't know where he was and was barely even awake.

If people are gonna write articles about something, at least be informed about the subject before spouting nonsense. I remember reading some woman complaining about when she took her 10 year old kid (roughly) to see The Dark Knight and was appauled by the violence and gore and that it's not suitable for kids of that age. Well Missus, how about checking out the trailer before hand to see what the movie is like? Also, there wasn't even any gore, all the violence, especially the bit where Joker slams the guys head onto the pencil is off screen, it's just your mind telling you that's what happend rather than actually seeing it.
 

DrPhil

Distinguished Member
This has been bugging me for weeks. Why is the Mir v Carwin fight an interim belt? Why not just make it a regular title contender fight.

The fight was made when nobody knew when or even if Brock would be back. Then he not only announced that he would return but also that his Docs were amazed at how fast he had recovered. Can't really demote the interim belt then, just the way the timing worked out.


It'll be Brocks 6th fight and 3 of them against the same guy. This doesn't help fuel peoples opinon that Brock is crap and hasn't fought anyone. Give him some others and let's see if he can beat anyone that comes to him, like 3 of the other 4 champs are doing.

There's a number of factors,
1 - Mir has done so well that it's hard not to give him the shot. He massacred Nog, same with Kongo and if he beats Carwin too then he has earned it.
2 - The HW division has been very thin, but is starting to look competitive and exciting again. Dos Santos, Velasquez etc are making things interesting but a year ago the UFC HW division was pretty miserable.
3 - Money, money, money. Mir talks trash better than most. He has a decent fan base and can sell a fight. Plus they're 1-1 in the first 2 fights so the money is in the rubber match.
 

g8tecrasher

Active Member
When Silva got Bisping down at the end of the 3rd ,and he landed at his feet did anyone else notice Silva pull back his left leg as if he was going to kick him in the face like they used to in Pride, but he obviously caught himself and stopped. The intent was definitely there though
 

DrPhil

Distinguished Member
When Silva got Bisping down at the end of the 3rd ,and he landed at his feet did anyone else notice Silva pull back his left leg as if he was going to kick him in the face like they used to in Pride, but he obviously caught himself and stopped. The intent was definitely there though

I did see it. I also read an argument that if he hadn't wasted a second or 2 stopping himself from booting him in the teeth, he'd have had enough extra time to finish the fight!
 

RicksonGracie1972

Distinguished Member

DrPhil

Distinguished Member
How do you think he would do against BJ

It would certainly be interesting. BJ has long been known as the most impressive BJJ LW in the business, and GS is probably the first person that would prompt anyone to even compare his ground game to BJ. At the minute though I think BJ's striking is miles ahead of GS and that would probably be where the fight would be won/lost.
 
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