MK MP300 THX Ultra 2 Speaker Package Review & Comments

No offense, I'm not attacking the brand.

Its just that, to me £3200 is a lot of money. I appreciate that isn't the same for everyone.

The X12 as reviewed here comes out very well, but I happen to agree with the reviewer that its very, very expensive. Value for money is somewhat subjective, but, for me, I would look for it elsewhere.
I think £3200 is a lot of money in anyones book, but its comparably priced when you look at other similarly placed products in the market. The Velodyne DD15 and 12 plus models are both more expensive, and the X12 will at least hold its own against the DD15, and Velodyne havent had to factor in the cost of THX testing and dont offer a 10 year warranty. JLA F113 V2 again is more expensive but hasnt had THX testing and doesnt match the MK warranty. Of course, both those products include arbitrary eq on board while the MK does not, but MK, as KK, prefer to simplify the design and make it right from the ground up rather than adding elements that could potential detract from what theyre trying to achieve.

There are plenty of comparable products on the market that are roughly priced the same or more. Different people have different ideas of what is and isnt expensive or overpriced, but if you compare the products your looking at to the rest of market place, the MK subwoofers are placed well in the market and in many cases are less expensive than a lot of the counter parts on offer. All the products have their own unique design elements and selling points. Product end performance is also directly comparable by the end user, assuming you can get a demonstration of course, and the individual can decide from there which products are right for them.
 
I have a good idea how it would perform based on its design and specs. Like I said, I imagine it performs similar to the DXD12012 and a good step up from the old 350. Which means it is still a great sub, just very expensive when you look at what you have available at much cheaper prices from the likes of XTZ, PSA and Arendal Sound.

imo it is ridiculously overpriced, when I would put money on the Arendal Sound Sub2 being a better performer at less than half the price. :)


But you can keep using that analogy into 'well, I built one in my garage for 1/4 of the price and it'll out perform sub x'

They're also not similar spec'ed subs and run on a different business models. Plus they're a completely unknown brand comparitively. The fact of the matter is that none of these brands you mention have the heritage or prestige associated with MK and aren't marketed the same way - this is why Paradigm / JL etc are bloody expensive too.

You are going to hit a wall with how much 2x12 drivers can do in a cabinet and hit another wall again where you'll have to add more drivers and amps to hear something wonderful and gigantic single hz tooth wobbling fun (assuming you have more than 2 movies that will go this low), that's just physics and a sub is not a system - when you listen to something as a whole is where the magic is.

This is an expensive commodity it can literally write it's own $ ticket and if you look at marketing trends, popular things yield unpopular prices, welcome to capitalism comrade Drew :)
 
Most of the thx ultra 2 packages use 2 subs to meet the output needed at reference, theres not many if any single 12' subs that achieve that, i could be wrong though.
Without looking i think the requirement is 20hz @105 db at a 10ft listening position.
Dont forget the X12 is effectively a pair of 12" subwoofers in a single cabinet with extra distortion cancelling mechanics employed. Its at least as capable as a single 15" in terms of output and extension, and 10Hz is possible and has been measured in room. The push-pull mechanic does drive cost up as it needs 2 drivers rather than one to employ it, which again pushes product price up.
 
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I think we are very lucky now days that we have some serious performing subwoofers available on the market for very low money really when you compare to the likes of the market overall and how it was years ago.

Then you factor in how much real world difference does one sub make to another - given the in room conditions being far from ideal in 99% of cases.

Then you factor in just how small most rooms being played back in are - and are we really getting clean deep bass from any of these subs or is it just a modal ringing noise really with very long decay times?
Then you factor in you can have 6 of these excellent performing and aggressive priced subs for the same cost as 2 of the more exotic or expensive models and you can then see why people have the opinions they do about the cost of the others
 
All y'all should be more concerned with the mid range and upper mids where a good 80% of the action is - not sure why this is a sub discussion comparing good subs to good subs, but by all means put 10 subs on a room, dial them in and listen to them - prepare to be disappointed and not knowing which bloody one you're listening to.

Start comparing the things on the front sound stage you can actually hear and what your brain recognizes as movement of an object in 3d space and you'll get a much better story. When you start adding tweeters into the mix and uniformity across the front is when you'll start to notice just what is what - MK are doing a really good job in that department, imo the most critical one in a surround sound system.

PS: Side note - revisited John Wick in Atmos with the MK 300's - really enjoyed it, some nice touches thrown in, that I hadn't got the full effect from.
 
Dont forget the X12 is effectively a pair of 12" subwoofers in a single cabinet with extra distortion cancelling mechanics employed. Its at least as capable as a single 15" in terms of output and extension, and 10Hz is possible and has been measured in room. The push-pull mechanic does drive cost up as it needs 2 drivers rather than one to employ it, which again pushes product price up.

The dual driver array doesnt hold merit for the increased cost when you consider the Arendal sub 2 is also a dual driver design at its significantly lower price point. This is worth pointing out I feel
 
There is no product on the market today more comparable to the M&K X12 than the DXD12012 was. If you wanted to make a comparison of the X12 with a similar product in order to demonstrate how you can have 2 similar products where one can attain THX U2 certification, while the other did not , is there one you feel is more relevant?

FWIW, I do know that Ken designs his subwoofers with certain parameters that do not change, for example, sealed with a system Q target of .707 to achieve a critically damped system, with a circuit included to maximise output under high spl conditions while preventing clipping. The X12 has the same over riding design principles built into its design.

How do you know the DXD1202 would not? Maybe it was not submitted to THX to keep the price down?
 
How do you know the DXD1202 would not? Maybe it was not submitted to THX to keep the price down?

Because it measures short of the spec required.
 
Because it measures short of the spec required.

Does it? What part?

I totally agree with you on what you said about putting ten high end subs in a room and not being able to guess which is which.
 
Does it? What part?

I totally agree with you on what you said about putting ten high end subs in a room and not being able to guess which is which.

I've no idea, as mentioned it was a passing sentence in a much bigger conversation - I also didn't get the exact spec on why Steinway Lyngdorf's head speaker designer was able to do the things he could manage, but he did at least draw it on a napkin for me as my head melted.

Just going on the word of a guy who has tested it and has worked with every previous design KK made until he went bankrupt. Does databass have readings for it? It's not something that would keep me up at night tho - even if I was interested in his products, I can't buy one. It's really kinda a 'meh' point except that one of the 2 products is guaranteed to perform a certain way, the other isn't.
 
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The dual driver array doesnt hold merit for the increased cost when you consider the Arendal sub 2 is also a dual driver design at its significantly lower price point. This is worth pointing out I feel
I wasnt comparing products, I was highlighting the fact that a dual driver subwoofer is going to be more expensive than a single driver one, to use your example of other products, the Sub1 and Sub 2 demonstrate this point comparably. A Q acoustics 3070 is also a twin driver unit, but its not an example of the X12 being overpriced. We have no idea of base costs of the components used, so cant directly compared products form different manufacturers in this regard.

How do you know the DXD1202 would not? Maybe it was not submitted to THX to keep the price down?
I dont believe I passed comment on whether it would or would not, only that it did not carry certification, while the MK products do, and the most directly comparable product there has ever been didnt. The original comment stream question why Rob would compare the X12 to the DXD in relation to highlighting the MK subwoofer being certified and the other not. My response was simply to point out that the DXD is actually the most comparable market product there has ever been, so Rob picking that product kind of makes sense from that point of view. I have in other posts compared it to other market products.
 
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You said a dual driver design is inevitably more expensive, which is right but that is not justification alone for a high price product - that was my point
 
You said a dual driver design is inevitably more expensive, which is right but that is not justification alone for a high price product - that was my point

But you've ignored mine and Dan's points as to why things are a certain price in the market place - brand name, business model, R&D, heritage, capitalism and peer review performance like this very review for example.
 
I havent ignored anything - people can pay or charge what they want for anything they want - its priced like this if you want it you have to pay for it. Thats fair enough

However when it comes to justifying the price - you can use whatever words you want - some hold credibility some dont - saying it has 2 drivers doesnt hold credibility for price justification.

EDIT for example - JL Audio will say our F subs cost thousands but we employ 8 patented techniques in the manufacturing process improving performance - see what I mean

Same as this review doesnt cover a lot of points, a lot of words no technical information such as the sites TV reviews are full of which surprised me actually.
So the review its just a subjective opinion worth no more or less than mine
 
I havent ignored anything - people can pay or charge what they want for anything they want - its priced like this if you want it you have to pay for it. Thats fair enough

However when it comes to justifying the price - you can use whatever words you want - some hold credibility some dont - saying it has 2 drivers doesnt hold credibility for price justification.

EDIT for example - JL Audio will say our F subs cost thousands but we employ 8 patented techniques in the manufacturing process improving performance - see what I mean

Same as this review doesnt cover a lot of points, a lot of words no technical information such as the sites TV reviews are full of which surprised me actually.
So the review its just a subjective opinion worth no more or less than mine


You can't price yourself out of the market tho, so you have to position yourself with confidence or go bust. In higher end subs, 2/multi driver models are typically more expensive within their own range, even if it's just one more drive unit attributing to that cost.

It's quite easy and good business sense for a new company with low overheads and no name recognition to low ball their competitors until they reach such recognition and can then adjust their market standing otherwise they'd have no chance to get a foot in the door. Said companies are probably just about able to pay the rent until X yrs time.

Unless they're being funded by an eccentric billionaire.

So it comes back to saying 'me and my mate can make a well spec'ed sub in our garage for 1/4 of the price' and also that the THX badge does guarantee a certain level of something, even if the customer doesn't know the exact spec, he probably has an inkling of who THX are and recognition is everything - tech specs.. not so much.
 
You said a dual driver design is inevitably more expensive, which is right but that is not justification alone for a high price product - that was my point
You dont believe adding more drivers into a speaker will increase the cost of that product?
 
I think this thread doesn't need any pruning shears applying, it needs a redwood log chopper [emoji15]

I'm not sure why this has all become about subs - and KK of all choices (it's really not relevant as KK products are no longer available). We can all laugh at the price of the M&K subs (and really, they are a joke but hey, no one is forcing anyone to buy one) but this is the MP300 review thread and the whole discussion has become way off topic.
 
As Rob brought it up, I'm not sure why he thinks thx is such a badge of honour or quality. Plenty of mediocre speakers have had the thx stamp over the years; as the S150s are THX ultra approved, why bother with the S300s?

(What I'm getting at is the thx badge is meaningless and has been for a number of years).
 
I think this thread doesn't need any pruning shears applying, it needs a redwood log chopper [emoji15]

I'm not sure why this has all become about subs - and KK of all choices (it's really not relevant as KK products are no longer available). We can all laugh at the price of the M&K subs (and really, they are a joke but hey, no one is forcing anyone to buy one) but this is the MP300 review thread and the whole discussion has become way off topic.

Nobody seems to want to talk or discuss the benefit of the rest of the system or it as a whole, so the comparisons on the sub part of it are valid given the history and lineage. You're right, no one has to buy anything, but regardless of your opinion the MK stuff is placed quite correctly in the current market given the company's standing - Dan's already pointed that out - re: JL, Velodyne etc - you are welcome to add why you think it's not marketed properly and list why all their direct competitors have it right or do none of them have it right??

Probably would add more weight to your argument if you'd demo'ed said products too.
 
S150s are THX ultra approved, why bother with the S300s?

Because they exceed the sound quality of the 150's and can be used in bigger applications - that's 2 big reasons right there. Why did you get the worlds largest Artcoustic centre speaker for such a small room vs something else?

(What I'm getting at is the thx badge is meaningless and has been for a number of years).

I wouldn't agree with that.. maybe to you and me it doesn't mean that much - but it does to a shedload of paying customers. We are very much the minority in this business, which I've worked in and branding whether you / i / whoever like it or not is a big chunk of purchase decision making - you can apply that to most consumables.
 
Why did you get the worlds largest Artcoustic centre speaker for such a small room vs something .

Because it came part of a package - I wouldn't pay the £3.5k rrp for that speaker in a million years :)
 
Because it came part of a package - I wouldn't pay the £3.5k rrp for that speaker in a million years :)

It is massouive!
 
It is massouive!

Yup, it is indeed - overkill for sure, but my purchasing decision was based largely out of aesthetic considerations for the room, and picture speakers was the order of the day. They work great, but the price of Artcoustic was/is eye watering for the performance (think my front 3 cost in excess of £7k new which is insane).

If I were starting again from scratch I'd be putting in some IW150s or Genelec AiW26s. Certainly couldn't stretch to the S300s and I wouldn't bother even if I could as the limiting factor is my room, not the speakers unfortunately. I think that's quite important when considering speakers of this quality and price too. £17k worth of M&Ks will still sound poor in a badly designed/optimised room, and a much cheaper system in a good room will knock spots off it.

Of course, put £17k worth of M&K into a good room and it's an entirely different story, which is why, for me, the room should always where possible come first.
 

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